Improvisation

[Sub_Drop]

Hey guys and girls,


It has only just occurred that when improvisation over chord progressions and so on, my improvisation is limited and not really creative in the musical sense.
It usually ends up sounding like i'm playing the basic groove with fast, 16th note fills.
Does anyone have any methods or tips to help me think more creatively and musically with improvisation.

Knowing scales and chord tones is all fine and I can use these techniques quite well but its more the rhythmic element which just goes off on one.

thanks alot in advance anyway

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='Sub_Drop' post='1021565' date='Nov 12 2010, 03:22 PM']Hey guys and girls,


It has only just occurred that when improvisation over chord progressions and so on, my improvisation is limited and not really creative in the musical sense.
It usually ends up sounding like i'm playing the basic groove with fast, 16th note fills.
Does anyone have any methods or tips to help me think more creatively and musically with improvisation.

Knowing scales and chord tones is all fine and I can use these techniques quite well but its more the rhythmic element which just goes off on one.

thanks alot in advance anyway[/quote]
try thinking in terms of playing a different instrument, or singing a harmony, or lyrics perhaps.

what would you play with a sax, or a set of congas ? 'sing' the part in your head and then try translating to the strings/fretboard.

outside of the box is the place to go..

[Mike]

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1021580' date='Nov 12 2010, 03:33 PM']try thinking in terms of playing a different instrument, or singing a harmony, or lyrics perhaps.

what would you play with a sax, or a set of congas ? 'sing' the part in your head and then try translating to the strings/fretboard.

outside of the box is the place to go..[/quote]

Very often I think "vocally" or like trumpet or sax...but never congas. Great idea!

[Faithless]

Forget scales for now, they won't make sense anyway, learn the arpeggios first of all..
You can solo without any problem using only chord tones (which's the main element of arpeggios..)

check out this stuff:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=98753"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=98753[/url]


It keeps me having work for months now, I'm yet nowhere near end of shedding this stuff into my head and hands..
Do it in all keys.

Oh, and singing also helps..
Whatever you practice, try singing along to it.. Then you can transfer it to improvisation - singing helps to get out new ideas, and helps to stay away from licks or too long phrases (because when you sing, you have to breathe which results in making natural pauses..)



P.S.

Mike, did you get my PM by any chance?

Edited November 13, 2010 by Faithless

[Bilbo]

Try soloing on one string (and, no, I am not joking).

Try soloing with just three notes (any octave but only three notes).You need to break some habits and free yourself. In order to do that you need boundaries.

[Mike]

[quote name='Faithless' post='1022732' date='Nov 13 2010, 06:23 PM']Forget scales for now, they won't make sense anyway, learn the arpeggios first of all..
You can solo without any problem using only chord tones (which's the main element of arpeggios..)

check out this stuff:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=98753"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=98753[/url]


I

P.S.

Mike, did you get my PM by any chance?[/quote]


I did, manic times here, will reply when I get a mo!

[XylemBassGuitar]

A few things that helped me improve my improv (in no particular order):

1) "The Jazz Theory Book" by Mark Levine...even if you hate jazz this book still has [i]tons[/i] of ideas, both rhythmic and tonal, and the ideas can be used in most genres (especially the rhythmic ideas). Keep in mind that this book is thick and somewhat complicated...

2) Another book, "Expanding Walking Bass Lines" by Ed Friedland. This one has even more good rhythmic ideas and is much simpler than The Jazz Theory Book, but still just as useful.

3) If you are trying to improve in the rhythmic arena particularly (and you may have already done this), play in a bunch of weird time signatures like 7/8, or practice fitting three bars of 4/4 into four bars of a tune that's in 3/4. Also, practice knowing where you are in the rhythmic structure. That is, tonally you know "I'm playing an A, now an E, now G, etc." but do you also know "right now I'm playing the third 16th note of the second quarter note (the seventh 16th note of the whole bar), then I'm going to play the first eighth note of the fourth quarter note?"

Hope these help!

[Doddy]

[quote name='XylemBassGuitar' post='1029616' date='Nov 19 2010, 05:01 PM']3) If you are trying to improve in the rhythmic arena particularly (and you may have already done this), play in a bunch of weird time signatures like 7/8, or practice fitting three bars of 4/4 into four bars of a tune that's in 3/4. Also, practice knowing where you are in the rhythmic structure. That is, tonally you know "I'm playing an A, now an E, now G, etc." but do you also know "right now I'm playing the third 16th note of the second quarter note (the seventh 16th note of the whole bar), then I'm going to play the first eighth note of the fourth quarter note?"

Hope these help![/quote]

This is cool and everything,but I think that it's way to heavy for where the OP is right now.

When you are improvising are you referring to soloing or coming up with a bassline over the changes?

If you are soloing,try to sing phrases and then transfer them onto the bass.As you get comfortable with this you will get to the point where it will
happen instantly-l play what you sing.
If you are on about grooving,try the same thing. Take a moment to listen to the feel and hear a line in your head,then transfer it to your bass.
The important thing to do is listen to examples of what you want to be able to do. Listen to people like Miles Davis to hear what a good solo
should sound like.

I'm assuming you have a decent idea of scales and arpeggios-if you don't,understanding them will make a big difference.

[Sub_Drop]

Thanks everyone for some amazing ideas.

I was generally on about improvising in both senses (soloing and creating bass lines).
I have tried the singing method, and its really does work.
I do know my arpeggios and scales quite well, but I could improve still of course.
The rhythmic idea of knowing exactly where your going to play in the measure is an interesting method, not sure if my sense of rhythm is that good.

[Wylie]

[quote name='Sub_Drop' post='1021565' date='Nov 12 2010, 10:22 AM']Hey guys and girls,


It has only just occurred that when improvisation over chord progressions and so on, my improvisation is limited and not really creative in the musical sense.
It usually ends up sounding like i'm playing the basic groove with fast, 16th note fills.
Does anyone have any methods or tips to help me think more creatively and musically with improvisation.

Knowing scales and chord tones is all fine and I can use these techniques quite well but its more the rhythmic element which just goes off on one.

thanks alot in advance anyway[/quote]

I have found that with the jazz tunes I play (Wayne Shorter, Miles Davis), if I go to the third of the chord that is being played and play over the third modally, I get interesting results. (There's a better way to say this, I'm sure, but this is what I've got so far.)

tg