Janek Gwizdala

[xilddx]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='1025567' date='Nov 16 2010, 09:53 AM']I like Janek's music, and will buy this next one (when I remember!), so share Faithless's love for his music. However, I can also relate to silddx's point. I found Live at the 55 Bar to be a more energetic album than Mystery to me, but I found it to be a little sparse on originality and catchy melodies. I'm not saying it was devoid of originality or melody, but given the length of the album and the quality of the musicians, there was relatively little music that made me "sit-up and pay attention". I did love the production on it though.

In contrast, Mystery to me had a great deal of interesting music and I listened intently the whole way through... but only from a musical perspective, as I found that it lacked vibrance or energy from the band/musicians/recording as a whole. Also, I wouldn't say there were any musically intense songs - they all felt very moody and melancholic, and therefore very samey, to me. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say he gained energy and production quality on the Live album at the expense of originality and artistry.

In short, I think Janek is a great musician with a lot to offer, but as yet hasn't quite won me over with his offerings so far.

EDIT: Oh I should add I went to see him in Epsom a few years back with a kick-ass band doing 'covers' of various jazz standards, and their live energy and musical prowess (both technically, rhythmically, melodically and harmonically) was astounding. Great night.[/quote]
I think you have made a very salient point that these guys really need the great standards to express themselves and be fully challenged. This is why they spend half their time transcribing John Coltrane and attempting to transfer it to the bass in an attempt to challenge themselves technically and theoretically. They have a great thirst for knowledge, and they are amazingly profficient, yet, this somehow rarely translates into music of any compositional intellect and emotion to match their instrumental abilities. They need cgreat composers to harness them, as I have said before.

I'm speculating, but I really think a lot of them have a bit of a emotional disconnect (couldn't think of a better word, sorry!) when it comes to composing, I think it may be because they see themselves WITHIN music, not OUTSIDE it and can't translate their feelings into music very well. This I think is as a result of concentrating on music to the exclusion of other things that fuel the soul. So their life experiences are mainly connected with music. It's just people, we are all different. BUT they need people like Zappa, the great jazz standards, the great composers, to challenge and harness their immense instrumental and improvisational abilities. The fact is, most of Zappa's musicians have gone on to do very little after leaving the band.

The trouble is, this comes across as criticism, and in a way I suppose it is. But the fact remains, certain types of people like what Janek does, but they are few, and they will largely have a love of an instrument. If you play an instrument, this record may provide you with a great source of knowledge and inspiration. Then you may get to a point where you are the new Janek hybrid. It's the same as what happened to the incredible guitarists of the eighties and nineties. They put mostly bland albums together as a way of guitar demonstration. And because there were so many guitarists in the world trying to be the same, the albums sold a bit. But where are they now? A few of them are session players, one or two are in decent bands making a living, some sell gear at trade shows and doe clinics and small club gigs for their long-standing fans. Survival of the fittest. The fittest appeal to a broader audience, possibly because they lead a different sort of life, possible more troubled as people, perhaps with slightly anti-social mores, or strange predilictions, or were just more connected with their world. But those things come through the music, and connect with people better.

Anyway, i have rambled long enough, and some of the above is probably bollacks.

[Sibob]

Janek's a funny one for me!, obviously an incredibly talented musician (fantastic chordal knowledge), but I saw him at the 606 club, and although there were great chops and ideas.....I didn't find it very musical. I certainly didn't remember any tunes or melodies coming away from the gig.
Having said that, his groove playing is great, his bassday lessons on bassplayer.tv are cool, and there's some cool r&b type clinic playing vids on YouTube!

Horses for courses though innit, each to their own, boring if we all thought the same etc etc
Keep it friendly

Si

[Sibob]

I suppose it's also the difference between writing songs and writing music!

Si

[Doddy]

We all know my opinion of Janek as a player-I take lessons off him whenever he is over and I have jammed with him on stage,so obviously I've got a more biased opinion,but I really do dig his music. That's what made me want to take lessons with him initially.
I get what Silddx is saying,but I do think that Janek is a lot more melodic and compositionally sound than similar players like Hadrien Feraud or Tony Gray-they are great players but their albums are harder to listen to,I think. I think that Janek has a couple of tunes that have the potential to become modern 'standards'. Maybe,he isn't fully formed as a composed just yet,but he's definitely on the way.Live,him and his band have great energy and are just killing-I think,way better than on record.
I'm a big Zappa fan (30+ albums),but do think that,although there is a lot of great music there,there is also quite a bit of fluff.I think that's the same for a lot of artists though,especially those as prolific as Zappa.

[Mike]

[quote name='Sibob' post='1025617' date='Nov 16 2010, 10:54 AM']Janek's a funny one for me!, obviously an incredibly talented musician (fantastic chordal knowledge), but I saw him at the 606 club, and although there were great chops and ideas.....I didn't find it very musical. I certainly didn't remember any tunes or melodies coming away from the gig.
Having said that, his groove playing is great, his bassday lessons on bassplayer.tv are cool, and there's some cool r&b type clinic playing vids on YouTube!

Horses for courses though innit, each to their own, boring if we all thought the same etc etc
Keep it friendly

Si[/quote]


I think that some of his melodies from tracks like Mana, Four Brothers, That Stern Look etc are REALLY memorable - I like to quote them in solos sometimes, they sound great.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Mike' post='1025654' date='Nov 16 2010, 11:27 AM']I think that some of his melodies from tracks like Mana, Four Brothers, That Stern Look etc are REALLY memorable - I like to quote them in solos sometimes, they sound great.[/quote]
I will check these out, I have a duty to I suppose.

I think where I differ from the solo bass fans is that I see bass as a harmony and rhythm instrument, and melody as a distinctly small role. It hasn't the timbre for truly expressive melodic playing, unless it's a fretless, or maybe an ERB which to me, are entirely different beasts to a standard fretted four string. To me, an ERB is a guitar tuned lower and I don't like the sound. It's an "in-between" thing for people who like to play bass and guitar at the same time IMO. Which is great if you like bass melodies.

I find the power of slinging notes under melodies that can destroy it or elevate the melody to great heights the thing about bass that is the most exciting, and i do get very exicited about that If I have the bass line written for me, then I can still get off on puping out dance rhythm, which is also very exciting.

[Sibob]

I should probably point out that I'm only basing my opinion on the 606 gig that I saw....nothing from that gig made me want to listen further to his songs....it was just a night of technically talented music to me....maybe I'll suck it up and assume he's a grower, give it some more listens.
Instrumental music has to REALLY impress me, I'm all about great vocals!

Si

[Doddy]

[quote name='Sibob' post='1025684' date='Nov 16 2010, 11:46 AM']Instrumental music has to REALLY impress me, I'm all about great vocals!

Si[/quote]

Whereas,I prefer instrumental music.

[Sibob]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1025695' date='Nov 16 2010, 11:52 AM']Whereas,I prefer instrumental music.[/quote]

Exactly, tis what makes this all so interesting.....life I mean

Si

[mcgraham]

[quote]I'm speculating, but I really think a lot of them have a bit of a emotional disconnect (couldn't think of a better word, sorry!) when it comes to composing[/quote]
A valid criticism of many technical musos. I'm not saying this is the case for Janek, just pointing out that all the technique in the world is for nought if you can't move people with your playing. The biggest thing to learn with music (IMO) is how to utilise it to affect people's emotions and actual state of being - and I see a lot of musicians just miss out on that and don't 'get' that this is the core of what makes music so universal.
[quote]Maybe,he isn't fully formed as a composer just yet,but he's definitely on the way.[/quote]
Plus the one! Definitely on the way.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Sibob' post='1025713' date='Nov 16 2010, 12:09 PM']Exactly, tis what makes this all so interesting.....life I mean

Si[/quote]
I'm just interested in music that moves me, don't really care what it is, could be MIA to John Taverner.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Mike' post='1025654' date='Nov 16 2010, 11:27 AM']I think that some of his melodies from tracks like Mana, Four Brothers, That Stern Look etc are REALLY memorable - I like to quote them in solos sometimes, they sound great.[/quote]
Here they are, and to me, they are not as you describe, sorry. They are simply grooves, with space for various solos, always a bass solo near the end then a big ensemble melt down for the last 8 bars. In two of them, we are lucky to have a brief type of middle eight as relief from the groove.

I'm sorry but it's really quite monotonous simple stuff, and childs play for these guys who are clearly great instrumentalists.

I thought he wrote complex compositions, I am sure I have heard that a few times and he has referred to stuff in his BGM column I'm sure. But people are linking to this simple groove/solo stuff he does. Can someone point me in the direction of his proper compositions please? Where's the orchestration?

Mana


Four Brothers


That Stern Look

Edited November 16, 2010 by silddx

[Doddy]

Them three tunes do have pretty simple changes,but I really like melodies of them. If you want to hear a more complex piece try 'Time Stands Still' from his album 'Mystery to Me'. It has a more complex set of changes. You probably still won't like it though

[xilddx]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1025988' date='Nov 16 2010, 03:48 PM']Them three tunes do have pretty simple changes,but I really like melodies of them. If you want to hear a more complex piece try 'Time Stands Still' from his album 'Mystery to Me'. It has a more complex set of changes. You probably still won't like it though [/quote]
Thanks mate, I'll try to check them although it's not on YT.

I've just been going through various live Gwiz vids (four of them, not demos, live footage) and they all seem to be two or three chord vamps with solos in, no melodies to speak of, no heart-thumping harmony, just simple changes like you say. Why are people so defensive of him and get angry at criticism of him? He's doing very little if anything that is advancing modern jazz, I see no extraordinary bass skills, composition, no real energy. The trumpet player held my attention more than anyone in the band. He looks tired. Is he trying to be commercial maybe? I wouldn't blame him for that I suppose, he needs to make a living.

I really don't understand what the hype's all about So many people seem to thinkhe's a bass god. I imagine he's a lovely guy with great physical chops and giant theoretical understanding, and a great teacher. But is this [b]REALLY [/b]his vision is of what to do with all these skills and knowledge? I mean, he has the knowledge and opportunity to REALLY compose. Why doesn't he?

EDIT: I just had a thought, I seem to be labouring under the impression he is known as a full on Jazz player and is marketed like that, I think. Am I wrong? Is he as Jazz/Funk guy? That would make a big difference to my expectations of him probably. Still can't understand the fuss though.


EDIT 2: Before people think I am being a cruel bastard talking about their music hero in this fashion, I have had nearly 30 years of people telling me my favourite band, Rush, are a pompous bunch of c**ts with a singer with a hideous shrieking voice and a huge conk. I swiftly learned not to give a sh*t.

Edited November 16, 2010 by silddx

[risingson]

[quote name='silddx' post='1026016' date='Nov 16 2010, 04:17 PM']Thanks mate, I'll try to check them although it's not on YT.

I've just been going through various live Gwiz vids (four of them, not demos, live footage) and they all seem to be two or three chord vamps with solos in, no melodies to speak of, no heart-thumping harmony, just simple changes like you say. Why are people so defensive of him and get angry at criticism of him? He's doing very little if anything that is advancing modern jazz, I see no extraordinary bass skills, composition, no real energy. The trumpet player held my attention more than anyone in the band. He looks tired. Is he trying to be commercial maybe? I wouldn't blame him for that I suppose, he needs to make a living.

I really don't understand what the hype's all about So many people seem to thinkhe's a bass god. I imagine he's a lovely guy with great physical chops and giant theoretical understanding, and a great teacher. But is this [b]REALLY [/b]his vision is of what to do with all these skills and knowledge? I mean, he has the knowledge and opportunity to REALLY compose. Why doesn't he?

EDIT: I just had a thought, I seem to be labouring under the impression he is known as a full on Jazz player and is marketed like that, I think. Am I wrong? Is he as Jazz/Funk guy? That would make a big difference to my expectations of him probably. Still can't understand the fuss though.[/quote]

You really don't have to quantify your own opinions to satisfy those who will force their own thoughts down your throat. I don't like him either, I think his music is bland, very very bland. But I understand that there will be people with opinions that differ to my own.

[beardybass]

[quote name='risingson' post='1026031' date='Nov 16 2010, 05:31 PM']You really don't have to quantify your own opinions to satisfy those who will force their own thoughts down your throat. I don't like him either, I think his music is bland, very very bland. But I understand that there will be people with opinions that differ to my own.[/quote]

This.com/+1

[Doddy]

I wouldn't call him a full on jazz player-in fact,he refers to what he does as improvised music and not jazz. I think his 'voice' is as much influenced by pop music,and being a sideman,as it is jazz.
I also wouldn't call him a bass god,but I can say that from sitting two feet away from him,he has got almost flawless technique,and ideas just seem to flow from him when he's improvising.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1026044' date='Nov 16 2010, 04:43 PM']I wouldn't call him a full on jazz player-in fact,he refers to what he does as improvised music and not jazz. I think his 'voice' is as much influenced by pop music,and being a sideman,as it is jazz.
I also wouldn't call him a bass god,but I can say that from sitting two feet away from him,he has got almost flawless technique,and ideas just seem to flow from him when he's improvising.[/quote]
Thanks so much for the clarification. I think I have indeed been labouring under a false impression. I think there are plenty of bass players in his league then, probably he just gets a lot of publicity so as usual people don't dig deeper and find some other maybe more interesting talent out there.

OK cool, I now feel a bit better, I truly thought he was being hyped a the new jazz wunderkind.

[Pete Academy]

I first saw Janek doing a Bass Player Live clinic on YouTube with the late Hiram Bullock. I thought his groove was amazing. I love the muted sound he gets with his thumb.

Having met him in person I can honestly say that he's a lovely guy, who works hard, and believes in himself and his art. A true musician.

I've read through most of the thread that BBC was involved in, and I was disgusted. To reiterate what other members said: We should be honoured that a player of his stature and experience be a part of this forum. Imagine the advice he would have given for nothing, just like Joe Hubbard has?

[xilddx]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1026264' date='Nov 16 2010, 07:42 PM']I've read through most of the thread that BBC was involved in, and I was disgusted. To reiterate what other members said: We should be honoured that a player of his stature and experience be a part of this forum. Imagine the advice he would have given for nothing, just like Joe Hubbard has?[/quote]
Agree completely, and BBC was a complete tool on that thread.

[skankdelvar]

Much as it pains me to (possibly) differ with two good chums, I feel honour bound to point out my own personal perspective on a couple of bits of ancient history:

* That thread culminated in an entirely co-ordinated bait designed to trap the BBC (who was being a tool).

* I do not doubt Mr Gwizdala is a good guy as Pete says, but - IMO - he did throw a [i]serious [/i]flounce. And for my taste, he's a [i]very[/i] good player, but not a great one.

I don't want the current thread to subside into trouble, so I'll happily acknowledge that others may view those dusty old events in a different light. I thoroughly respect their opinions though they may differ from my own.

That is all.

Edited November 17, 2010 by skankdelvar

[xilddx]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1026483' date='Nov 16 2010, 10:40 PM']Much as it pains me to (possibly) differ with two good chums, I feel honour bound to point out my own personal perspective on a couple of bits of ancient history:

* That thread culminated in an entirely co-ordinated bait designed to trap the BBC (who was being a bit of a tool).

* I do not doubt Mr Gwizdala is a good guy as Pete says, but - IMO - he did throw a [i]serious [/i]flounce. And for my taste, he's a good player, but not a great one.

I don't want the current thread to subside into trouble, so I'll happily acknowledge that others may view those dusty old events in a different light. I thoroughly respect their opinions though they may differ from my own.

That is all.[/quote]
I agree with all these points, but BBC didn't have to fall for what may have been a trap.

[Johngh]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1026264' date='Nov 16 2010, 07:42 PM']I first saw Janek doing a Bass Player Live clinic on YouTube with the late Hiram Bullock. I thought his groove was amazing. I love the muted sound he gets with his thumb.

Having met him in person I can honestly say that he's a lovely guy, who works hard, and believes in himself and his art. A true musician.

I've read through most of the thread that BBC was involved in, and I was disgusted. To reiterate what other members said: We should be honoured that a player of his stature and experience be a part of this forum. Imagine the advice he would have given for nothing, just like Joe Hubbard has?[/quote]


I kind of have a dream about what it would be like if the likes of Mark King, Geddy, Flea, Janek etc etc were forum members on here and we could all enjoy the banter with these great players.

But it's not going to happen is it, because all that will happen is they will get flamed the same as what happened to Janek. I can't see the point in posting negative nonsense when the OP's of these threads gets a kick out of listening to (insert your favorite bass players name here) music.
If it don't float yer boat, then fine. But there's no point carping on about it is there.


I was a mod when BBC was banned. There was no bait and no trap. He hung himself ten fold before he was banned, he was given enough slack on many an occasion. In my dealings with him I could have recommended a ban way before it actually happened but I didn't. Anyway's, enough of the BBC. Subject closed.

Back on topic please.

[XB26354]

[quote name='silddx' post='1025606' date='Nov 16 2010, 10:41 AM']It's the same as what happened to the incredible guitarists of the eighties and nineties. They put mostly bland albums together as a way of guitar demonstration. And because there were so many guitarists in the world trying to be the same, the albums sold a bit. But where are they now? A few of them are session players, one or two are in decent bands making a living, some sell gear at trade shows and doe clinics and small club gigs for their long-standing fans. Survival of the fittest. The fittest appeal to a broader audience, possibly because they lead a different sort of life, possible more troubled as people, perhaps with slightly anti-social mores, or strange predilictions, or were just more connected with their world. But those things come through the music, and connect with people better.

Anyway, i have rambled long enough, and some of the above is probably [b]bollacks[/b].[/quote]

You said it!

[Rich]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1026264' date='Nov 16 2010, 07:42 PM']I first saw Janek doing a Bass Player Live clinic on YouTube with the late Hiram Bullock. I thought his groove was amazing. I love the muted sound he gets with his thumb.[/quote]
[quote name='silddx' post='1025606' date='Nov 16 2010, 10:41 AM']Anyway, i have rambled long enough, and some of the above is probably [b]Hiram Bullocks[/b].[/quote]

See what I did there?
Aww c'mon gimme a break, it's still early.