Beedster Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='51m0n' post='1027688' date='Nov 18 2010, 10:20 AM']Getting your routeing in a muddle and piping red hot feedback through the cans at ear destroying volume - this will not make you popular - you will do it one day.... Recording a guitar part, only to think that the sound is a bit 'roomy' on listening back to the best take of the day - only to realise you recorded it with the mic that was over a drum overhead earlier in the day and is now on the other side of the room - this is almost always compounded by the awful realisation that you recorded over the drum overhead track by mistake! Recording a take only to realise that the big swooshy reverb you sent down the monitor for the singer to 'get into it' actually got printed, and is awful in the final mix.... Spending a good hour trying to work out why the singer cant hear themselves in the vocal booth - only to discover they havent put the headphones on / plugged the headphones into the wall socket, the headphone amp is off/turned down / feeding the main live room.... Listening to the opinion of the drummer /guitarist /keyboard player about how to 'capture their sound'... Dont do it, listen to their sound, listen to what they want their sound to be, then go about capturing it using tried and tested techniques, not the way his mate did it in the pub that one time! Turning on the phantom power, and frying the expensive ribbon mic...... DO document every track, setting, mic used, preamp setting, outboard setting, blah blah blah - this can take a long time. Its worth it! DO pay very very special attention to the gain structure throughout, or something will be too hot, or too noisy. DO think twice before using eq / compression when tracking, unless you know exactly what you are trying to achieve, and how to do it. You cant undo it later. DO spend time to get the mic position bang on - it is worth spending some hours over mic position, then documenting that position (digital cameras rule!) so that it is easier to recapture later. Even better is to be abl;e to spend a day just setting the mics up for the best sounds and levels, then record the tracks the next day when everyone is fresh... DO use the shortest signal path you can to disk. DO set the mood: lighting, lava lamps, relaxed fun atmosphere - at least let them believe you are relaxed! DO NOT let people in when other people are overdubbing or the band is laying down tracks - trackig or mixing by commitee is a disaster [i][b]DO NOT EVER hand over a final mix without the cash in your hand first!!!!![/b][/i] DO your best to keep the tracking simple and fast ESPECIALLY with drums track at 24bit with the levels set such that the peaks are no hotter than -6dBfs DO a/b against a commercial cd that the band likes the production of when mixing DO check your mix in the car, hi-fi, ipod to see how well it translates DO HAVE FUN!!!![/quote] There have been some great posts in this thread and many thanks to you all for them. The post above however will be printed and is going on to the studio wall just to the left of my computer! Thanks once again folks C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='cheddatom' post='1027729' date='Nov 18 2010, 11:01 AM']heh, I did a guitar take the other day with one of those flat AKG mics right up against the cab grille, facing the wrong way!! It's got FRONT written on it!![/quote] LOL, our singer bought his vocal mic in the other day, claimed he knew how to set it up and did exactly the same thing! He sounded about a mile away whilst the guitarist's breathing and muttering under his breath was loud and clear. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='Beedster' post='1027754' date='Nov 18 2010, 11:22 AM']There have been some great posts in this thread and many thanks to you all for them. The post above however will be printed and is going on to the studio wall just to the left of my computer! Thanks once again folks C[/quote] Awww shucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='Beedster' post='1027761' date='Nov 18 2010, 11:25 AM']LOL, our singer bought his vocal mic in the other day, claimed he knew how to set it up and did exactly the same thing! He sounded about a mile away whilst the guitarist's breathing and muttering under his breath was loud and clear. C[/quote] Oh forgot this one, classic, seen variations on this with AKG 414s, Neumans, and my favourite a Heil PR40 - its an end address mic (ie like an SM58) but looks like a big side address valve mic, so people sing into the side of them - oh how we laugh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='51m0n' post='1027810' date='Nov 18 2010, 12:01 PM']Oh forgot this one, classic, seen variations on this with AKG 414s, Neumans, and my favourite a Heil PR40 - its an end address mic (ie like an SM58) but looks like a big side address valve mic, so people sing into the side of them - oh how we laugh....[/quote] At rehearsal the other evening, the lead guitarist needed to use my classic 'Elvis' mic. I wouldn't have thought anyone could manage to sing into the side of one of those ... but he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archetype Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Just stay cool, not everything down, and watch your levels. You will alwyas solo the wrong track etc, just try not to. I always leave the mixer along while tracking so i cant possibly interfere with the cue mix's. Although my best one, I had another person helping me, who copied all the session files onto the internal Mac drive, and was working from them. End of the day copied them from the external drive onto the internal to copy to another external. word of warning, Mac's do NOT merge folders. if you have a session folder, and move another session folder to the same location it deletes the old one and takes the enw, not merge them like in windows. So in this case the vocal takes we just spent 4 hours on were now gone. one angry as hell singer and we got the tracks done even better in an hour. thank god it was a metal band! G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Beedster' post='1027761' date='Nov 18 2010, 11:25 AM']LOL, our singer bought his vocal mic in the other day, claimed he knew how to set it up and did exactly the same thing! He sounded about a mile away whilst the guitarist's breathing and muttering under his breath was loud and clear. C[/quote] I remember once with my (then) quite new condenser i did a vocal take and this was like proper top of your voice shouting stuff, I recorded it and I could hardly hear anything! Turned out, yep same thing. Much worse than that though was on the same song I was screwing the microphone shock mount in to the stand and I thought I had got in, but I hadn't. Was at the computer when I just heard "thud". Luckily the mic was still working but now the top with the grille is lopsided. [quote name='51m0n' post='1027688' date='Nov 18 2010, 10:20 AM']DO think twice before using eq / compression when tracking, unless you know exactly what you are trying to achieve, and how to do it. You cant undo it later.[/quote] All in all a very good post. All I would say on this one point though is that these days you can stick virtual track effects on to give you an idea of how the mix will sound without modifying the original sound files and use the big stuff when mixing (if you have "big stuff", that is!) Edited November 18, 2010 by EdwardHimself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Yeh I never use outboard on the way into the PC but that doesn't mean I can't compress it, EQ, add reverb etc for the performer's headphones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Do absolutely anything you like to the signal to the cans by all means! But note that at some point you will get that wrong and print it (see the point about the big swooshy reverb I accidently tracked )) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 If I might add one last teensy bit of advice:- DO make sure the band know the material, exactly how they are going to play it, before they walk into the studio.... And DONT let them chnage the plan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='51m0n' post='1027969' date='Nov 18 2010, 02:40 PM']Do absolutely anything you like to the signal to the cans by all means! But note that at some point you will get that wrong and print it (see the point about the big swooshy reverb I accidently tracked ))[/quote] I must admit i used to do pretty silly things with the audio on my tracks before I realised you could just add the effects to the track itself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='51m0n' post='1027969' date='Nov 18 2010, 02:40 PM']Do absolutely anything you like to the signal to the cans by all means! But note that at some point you will get that wrong and print it (see the point about the big swooshy reverb I accidently tracked ))[/quote] I'm using VSTs so it's pretty impossible to "print". Maybe that's one of the features of Reaper? Still not tried it at least it's because i'm too busy with music, rather than too busy with work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clauster Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Only one from me - [b]Do not be bullied into rushing getting everything set up properly. [/b] A drummer I used to play with was one of the worst for this. No patience or understanding for technical stuff combined with being a big bloke with lots of tattoos. I've had experience as a live sound engineer and our singer has built and opeated hos own studio, so we both know how getting the sound right before you begin is the only way. We saw the warning signs and distracted him early. But he was getting really wound up about the three hours it took to get his kit properly tuned and damped, choose the right amps for the guitar and mic them, set the bass up for DI and Mic and compression on both lines, right mic for singers voice etc. In the end he admitted it was worth it. He was moaning on Facebook the other day that the recording he'd done with his new band sounded awful. I wonder how much of that was because the band rolled in, set-up allowed the engineer to put a few mics on poles and then insisted that he get back in the control room and press record without further ado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 +1 very good point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='cheddatom' post='1028051' date='Nov 18 2010, 03:34 PM']I'm using VSTs so it's pretty impossible to "print". Maybe that's one of the features of Reaper? Still not tried it at least it's because i'm too busy with music, rather than too busy with work![/quote] Even with a vst if you put it into an insert point can be recorded on a lot of DAWs - they even allow them to work out the delay of the extra processing in some of them. Sometimes its what you want to do, sometimes it isnt. If you arent sure, then dont! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 DO put new heads on the drums and tune them properly DO put fresh bass strings on (fresh by your standards) - you can always roll treble off, you cant put more harmonic content in.... If the guitarists amp is really noisey, record a track of the noise, then put it out of phase with the real take at mix down, the noise will large cancel out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='51m0n' post='1028219' date='Nov 18 2010, 05:29 PM']Even with a vst if you put it into an insert point can be recorded on a lot of DAWs - they even allow them to work out the delay of the extra processing in some of them. Sometimes its what you want to do, sometimes it isnt. If you arent sure, then dont![/quote] On Cakewalk you can "freeze" the track with the effects and any splicing all merged into one track but it is a reversable process so if you want to change it back and alter the effects or what have you, you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 [quote name='51m0n' post='1027810' date='Nov 18 2010, 12:01 PM']Oh forgot this one, classic, seen variations on this with AKG 414s, Neumans, and my favourite a Heil PR40 - its an end address mic (ie like an SM58) but looks like a big side address valve mic, so people sing into the side of them - oh how we laugh....[/quote] I did this the first time I used an EV RE20. We live and learn. Or not. I've also done similar things with a U87 and got a very 'reflective' sound; turns out the singer was singing in the wrong part. How we laughed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecoldbass Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 [quote name='slaphappygarry' post='1026802' date='Nov 17 2010, 12:44 PM']I am a recording engineer for a living and I will later on come back with some beauties from when I was getting started... I think the difference between mine and yours is that my clients still to this day know nothing of my errors. :-)[/quote] But I do..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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