EBMM value question

[chilievans]

Hi all
I've just seen a EBMM stingray 1997 for sale with original case both in mint condition going for £800. Is this a fair price?

[stingrayPete1977]

It sounds ok to me if its totaly mint, If its not as good as what I would call mint (As good as when it left california) then knock a drink off it or include the postage whatever is agreeable, Maybe £750-775?

[chilievans]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1030718' date='Nov 20 2010, 06:55 PM']It sounds ok to me if its totaly mint, If its not as good as what I would call mint (As good as when it left california) then knock a drink off it or include the postage whatever is agreeable, Maybe £750-775?[/quote]
Its from a local shop so hopefully I can knock him down or maybe trade in my Ibanez sr500

[stingrayPete1977]

As a shop price that sounds pretty good and there is more and more love growing for the 90's Rays. Try and get a new strap/strings etc whatever you can get to sweeten the deal.

[chilievans]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1030745' date='Nov 20 2010, 07:20 PM']As a shop price that sounds pretty good and there is more and more love growing for the 90's Rays. Try and get a new strap/strings etc whatever you can get to sweeten the deal.[/quote]
Good thinking
Thanks budd

[stingrayPete1977]

I would think Musicman20 and ou7shined will be along soon to agree or disagree with my thoughts?

[Ou7shined]

^
Second hand Stingray prices go up and down like a tarts drawers. At the moment prices do seem to be on the up again. I wouldn't balk at paying £800 for a good one in a shop but realistically you could get one for less on here. I paid about £600 for my '97 a couple of years back. I agree with Pete, go for it if it feels right but see if you can get mats and a full tank thrown in.

[Prime_BASS]

Haggle it down, as ou7shined is right about being able to get one for less here.
Also I would give eBay a glance, a really very very very nice early 90s ray in rare blue burst bridge had intact string mutes didn't even reach £700, I would have got it if I hadn't been at the bass bash

My 95' ray cost me £550 including postage and duties from the states, but its very used, still sounds amazing but has a SD bassline alnico pickup in it, I've tried some rays from around the same time which have sounded a little weak.

I love despite its used nature, I fell in love with the heavy birdeye neck.

[NJE]

Apologies in advance for a slight hijack but I am looking at a few Stingrays at the moment and was wondering if any of you MusicMan aficionados would be able to comment on price for me?

I am looking at a 87 Stingray for £1300 and was wondering if this was about normal for an early-ish Ray? seems a little hight to me?

Thanks,

Nathan

[Musicman20]

[quote name='NJE' post='1032250' date='Nov 22 2010, 09:25 AM']Apologies in advance for a slight hijack but I am looking at a few Stingrays at the moment and was wondering if any of you MusicMan aficionados would be able to comment on price for me?

I am looking at a 87 Stingray for £1300 and was wondering if this was about normal for an early-ish Ray? seems a little hight to me?

Thanks,

Nathan[/quote]

Hmm, im not pre 90s expert, but that seems a little high to me.

To the OP, if you can get a nice very clean Ray for £800, (and I mean REALLY clean) then it will hold its value around there as long as you look after it. Original case adds £50 or so as the MM cases are about £125 or something now.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='NJE' post='1032250' date='Nov 22 2010, 09:25 AM']Apologies in advance for a slight hijack but I am looking at a few Stingrays at the moment and was wondering if any of you MusicMan aficionados would be able to comment on price for me?

I am looking at a 87 Stingray for £1300 and was wondering if this was about normal for an early-ish Ray? seems a little hight to me?

Thanks,

Nathan[/quote]
I'm going to be a bit controversial here.
£1300 isn't awful, considering that people have asked 2k for early Musicmans.... and got it.
The controversy comes when you consider what you actually get for your money over a modern 2eq 'ray... the answer is not a lot, other than the panache of being able to say "I own an early MM". Stingrays have hardly changed in design since they first came out and the minute changes that have occurred certainly haven't been to their detriment. When faced with the question of buying a piece of MM history you should consider this £1500+ for a used bass + bragging rights or £750 for a newer used bass with (to all intent and purposes) the same look and awesome sound.... of course you could always pay £1300 for a brand new one + case, + warranty. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with owning an old one, it's just that [b]before[/b] owning one, there are financial considerations with respect to bang for your buck.
[b] Are you a MM player or a MM collector?[/b]

[Musicman20]

The other thing to note is that if you like MMs black, red or blue colours, they are selling brand new 2 band Rays for £999 in a EBMM soft case. Im sure you could get one for £950 and have everything new with a guarantee.

Im not keen on those colours, plus I wanted a hardcase, so I paid a little bit more for those upgrades. Definitely worth it.

[stingrayPete1977]

£1300 sounds a little high to me unless we have predicted rightly that the early EBMM's are next to gain some ground to fill the void as ou7shined says of the 2K for the pre EB. There is a really nice one on ebay that fits the criteria with a reserve set at £825 obviously if we are missing a trick that will be smashed but Im guessing it wont go for much more or the listing will be pulled before the end if an offer arrises.

Also what are we classing as early? EB took over in 84' so 87 isnt exactley first year of production. I however feel they are maybe the best of all the Rays with Mutes, Birdseye, Contours, 2 band EQ so I would pay a bit more than I would for a later version.

I will have another look for the link.

Edited November 22, 2010 by stingrayPete1977

[stingrayPete1977]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380291400282"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=380291400282[/url]

FTW

In fact if anyone wants my 2002 Teal with maple board and hardcase for the right money I might have this myself. You can see my geek question he has added at the bottom! And the link is to chillievans other thread, I never warned him about Tino those are lifes little lessons!

[NJE]

Cheers for the comments, I am going to have a look at this 87 again this afternoon and see if a deal could possibly be struck. £1300 seems high as i have also seen similar era basses go for less on eBay and on here. It is mint and even the string mutes are immaculate but still its a lot of money.

I love Rays but the problem for me is that I really dislike the non finished necks, I LOVE gloss necks, which is why I refinished the neck on my old Ray (which I believe Ou7shined now owns). This ultimately restricts me with Stingrays which is why I have also been looking at the new classic series. They have everything I want in bass pretty much, birdseye maple, gloss and the funky bridge. The only thing I am not too sure about is the slab body, oh and the price of £1350 for one on here.

I am ultimately looking for something that wont takle too much of a hit price wise if I have it for a few years and sell. Maybe these 80s Stingrays will be the future collectables as they will be approaching 'vintage' age at 30 years soon. Maybe best to try and pick up a bargain 80s after all.

[martthebass]

[quote name='NJE' post='1032431' date='Nov 22 2010, 11:50 AM']Cheers for the comments, I am going to have a look at this 87 again this afternoon and see if a deal could possibly be struck. £1300 seems high as i have also seen similar era basses go for less on eBay and on here. It is mint and even the string mutes are immaculate but still its a lot of money.

I love Rays but the problem for me is that I really dislike the non finished necks, I LOVE gloss necks, which is why I refinished the neck on my old Ray (which I believe Ou7shined now owns). This ultimately restricts me with Stingrays which is why I have also been looking at the new classic series. They have everything I want in bass pretty much, birdseye maple, gloss and the funky bridge. The only thing I am not too sure about is the slab body, oh and the price of £1350 for one on here.

I am ultimately looking for something that wont takle too much of a hit price wise if I have it for a few years and sell. Maybe these 80s Stingrays will be the future collectables as they will be approaching 'vintage' age at 30 years soon. Maybe best to try and pick up a bargain 80s after all.[/quote]

TBH (I'm sure Pete will shout at me for this), in a live situation (and even in a darkened quiet room for that matter) I've personally not found much difference between pre-EB and 2EQ EBMM. To my mind tho if you subscribe to the vintage phenomenum then a collectors grade pre-EB is a worthwhile proposition as an investment.

In terms of late 80's early 90's Rays, well my departed 1990 Ray sounded exactly the same as a 2005 one that I had, the only difference was the mutes (which I never used), the screw on battery cover (which was a pain if you'd forgotten a screwdriver in a gig), the satin varnish to the neck (which I liked - they were not gloss but they do go glossy after a few years use) and a bit of birdseye figure (pretty but not essential). So do I think there is £600 difference between this used 1987 and a used 00's Ray (av. £700 used).....well no. Thinking about it, a used 30th Anni has birdseye, throughbody stringing, gloss neck and should come in below your £1300 - hunt one down.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='NJE' post='1032431' date='Nov 22 2010, 11:50 AM']... I love Rays but the problem for me is that I really dislike the non finished necks, I LOVE gloss necks, which is why I refinished the neck on my old Ray (which I believe Ou7shined now owns).....[/quote]
lol I do indeed. She's a fantastic beast.
And I returned the neck back to the way god (or Leo) intended. Swings and roundabouts eh?

[NJE]

That was a very very special Stingray, i dont know why but there was just something about it. The neck was ok when I got it but I wanted to protect it and clean it up a little so I contacted ernieball who said use birchwood casey true oil and gun stock wax and the result was pretty good, that bass stayed around a while.

Strange thing is I went through a "I am a 5 string player" phase and sold it and now I am trying to get my hands on one again and shift my Overwater Jazz 5.

Oh how fickle I am.......swings and roundabouts again..

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1032628' date='Nov 22 2010, 02:03 PM']lol I do indeed. She's a fantastic beast.
And I returned the neck back to the way god (or Leo) intended. Swings and roundabouts eh? [/quote]

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='martthebass' post='1032586' date='Nov 22 2010, 01:44 PM']TBH (I'm sure Pete will shout at me for this), in a live situation (and even in a darkened quiet room for that matter) I've personally not found much difference between pre-EB and 2EQ EBMM. To my mind tho if you subscribe to the vintage phenomenum then a collectors grade pre-EB is a worthwhile proposition as an investment.[/quote]

No thats fair comment mart, You can say the same about anything a vintage P through my genz rig compared to someone else playing a really nice MIJ through an Ashdown is worlds apart yet still going to sound similar to most yet the MIJ could be worth £500 and the vinatge one £5000. The only thing is if the MIJ doubles in value as we could be predicting long term on these early EB's compared to something like my 2002 where will the Vinatge P or in this case the pre EB Rays value have gone £10000-£15000? I know Im playing devils advocate there but you see what Im saying.

Have a look at Rasta's pre EB, at that price I would go for that if you want mutes, Gloss neck and something that will hold its value. I know its never going to be all original (Like mine! ) but its a good project to keep an eye out for bits as they come up on ebay which could potentially raise its value.

Just seen he has took it down to £850! the neck alone will be getting worth near that soon IMO
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=111691"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=111691[/url].

I would be all over this at this price inc postage right on budget.

[Prime_BASS]

There is also a 88 in the for sale section with an asking price of 900£ so to me, yes £1300 is a lot.

At the end of the day it comes down to what you an other are willing to pay for it.

And Musicman20 makes a valid point that you can get new ones with a warranty for around £950.

[martthebass]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1032775' date='Nov 22 2010, 03:55 PM']No thats fair comment mart, You can say the same about anything a vintage P through my genz rig compared to someone else playing a really nice MIJ through an Ashdown is worlds apart yet still going to sound similar to most yet the MIJ could be worth £500 and the vinatge one £5000. The only thing is if the MIJ doubles in value as we could be predicting long term on these early EB's compared to something like my 2002 where will the Vinatge P or in this case the pre EB Rays value have gone £10000-£15000? I know Im playing devils advocate there but you see what Im saying.[/quote]

Strangely enough, having been unsuccesful in acquiring a decent 70's Fender I'm starting to seriously think about a pre-EB purely for the combination of playability and investment. Trouble is I'm already above my '3 bass limit' and can't decide what to sell to fund one...

Rasta's pre-EB tempted me despite its non-originality - could be a nice restoration project. The OP could do worse than that one given his budget?

[stingrayPete1977]

He could but its already sold now! I know Im totally biased mart but the pre EB's are fantastic for both sound and playability. For the first few days the lack of body chamfeurs was a little annoying but Im used to them now and EB must feel the same to release the Classic without them too. I got mine partly as an investment but as I play it at least once a week for long periods of time and have no desire to ever move it on that has become very much secondary to it being my go to bass.

Back OT I really can see the draw of the 80's models which bring together all these finer points and would love to try one.

Its only been a few weeks since the OP could of picked up a very very nice 30th LE Ray for £950 Has that avenue been firmly closed?

[stingrayPete1977]

Apologies for hijacking again! But I just found this, I know its a 76 model and top of the tree but for the people who keep telling you that you are stupid for buying a pre EB in this country when you could go to the states and get one for $700 and have a free holiday whilst still coming in under what UK buyers are paying, Unfortunatley the US economy has changed just like ours since they were last there in 1984!
[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-1976-MUSICMAN-STINGRAY-BASS-MUSIC-MAN-PRE-EB-/320616170762?pt=Guitar&hash=item4aa636850a"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-1976-MUSICMA...=item4aa636850a[/url]
At the same time the EBMM's are criminally low valued right now,I found loads that have finished on ebay in the last few days under £600 with original cases.

[martthebass]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1033556' date='Nov 23 2010, 09:27 AM']Its only been a few weeks since the OP could of picked up a very very nice 30th LE Ray for £950 Has that avenue been firmly closed?[/quote]

It was always >/=£1000 Pete - Be a fool to myself otherwise and in answer yes I've closed that door for the moment. I foolishly did a band practice with it last week and was completely bowled over by how well it sounded - much punchier and less toppy than a standard 3eq Ray. If I get a pre-EB I'll have to sell something else or change my mind next year!