chris_b Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 (edited) [quote name='bilbo230763' post='134893' date='Feb 6 2008, 11:17 AM']The problem is less of an issue with younger players (I am 44) but, whilst there are exceptions, the old school are still prejudiced in favour of the upright. I have said it 1,000 on here, Steve Swallow is one of the mst musical bass players out there. If the electric is good enough for him....[/quote] Martin Drew, Ronnie Scotts drummer, uses Laurence Cottle in his quartet but can't on some gigs because Mr Cottle plays electric bass, and that isn't acceptable to certain "jazz fans." Edited February 6, 2008 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 6, 2008 Author Share Posted February 6, 2008 QOTD - the literal answer to your question is they are all jazz but jazz is a term that is too big to be really useful (a bit like saying I like books or food or sport). You need to be more specific - trad, dixieland, smooth jazz, free jazz, jazz funk, jazz rock, bebop, post bop, neo0classicism, fusion, world jazz, pop-jazz - the list goes on. Writing about jazz is like dancing about architecture... Buy a Jazzwise or Downbeat magazine one month and look for some stuff that sounds interesting then look it up. There used to be plenty of jazz in Cardiff (that's where I cut my teeth in the 1980s) but I can't speak for it now. There is a guy called Jon Caulfield that knows his stuff, or Julian Martin (piano), Andy Maule (gtr), Paula Gardiner (bass), :ee Goodall, Osian Roberts, Dick Hamer (saxes) - keep you eyes out and go see some people play! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Paula Gardiner is an amazing urb player!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenofthedepths Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='135123' date='Feb 6 2008, 04:19 PM']You need to be more specific - trad, dixieland, smooth jazz, free jazz, jazz funk, jazz rock, bebop, post bop, neo0classicism, fusion, world jazz, pop-jazz - the list goes on[/quote] Okaeey, so what would you call Weather Report? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 In Record shops they come under Jazz, then you see reviews about Jaco "fusion bass player" who brought RnB, rock, be bop, world music, etc, etc. I think with a band like Weather Report it's very difficult to pigeon hole, lots of different things going on. It's all labelling really I suppose, in fact I'm not really sure at all, Jazz is a huge genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 Weather Report were a hybrid of world/jazz/fusion. Their whole catalogue is a panolpy of jazz/jazz funk/jazz rock/fusion/pop - just goes to show how inadequate labels can be. My favourite WR CDs are 'Night Passage', 'Mr Gone', 'Heavy Weather' and 'Procession'. 'Black Market' and 'Domino Theory' have some great tracks (Db waltz is COOKIN') but I prefer the first four I have listed. Oh and that Alphonso Johnson guy is seriously underated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='138097' date='Feb 11 2008, 12:20 PM']Weather Report were a hybrid of world/jazz/fusion. Their whole catalogue is a panolpy of jazz/jazz funk/jazz rock/fusion/pop - just goes to show how inadequate labels can be. My favourite WR CDs are 'Night Passage', 'Mr Gone', 'Heavy Weather' and 'Procession'. 'Black Market' and 'Domino Theory' have some great tracks (Db waltz is COOKIN') but I prefer the first four I have listed. Oh and that Alphonso Johnson guy is seriously underated![/quote] Agreed, Johnson is hugely underated. Herandnu is amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freuds_Cat Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 [quote name='bassace' post='117951' date='Jan 11 2008, 02:58 AM']Come on guys, be nice to each other. Remember the bass had a place in jazz long before rock came on the scene.[/quote] Um cant resist... The wheel had a place on Fords a long before lamborghini's came along too! Nah... jus' joking, Jazz is OK, I agree, ultimately when the beer finaly runs out a bassline is a bassline ia a bassline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I'd call Weather Report fusion myself. Trouble is, the term 'jazz' is as wide and all encompassing as 'rock'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teen t-shirt Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 i'll just add in my 2 cents here....... "cough clears throat" i personally dislike jazz due to my opinion or mainly because of the way i lik to play my music..... i prefer a certain structure to my music the music i play has to have some form to it some kind of structure to it, a pattern if u wish.... how ever i'm just putting in my bit after reading through the 5 pages of replies, and if you wish to listen, play and or enjoy any form of jazz thats down to you and your oppinion i for one can't stand it simply because 'most' of the time there is no structure no knowing of whats coming next and i prefer to know whats coming next..... just to quote some one a few pages back...... 'I just wanted to make sure you weren't saying that the fast show sketch caused the stereotype' is it bad i haven't seen the fast show sketch or infact mighty boosh????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 Trouble is, teentshirt, that there are levels of structure. Some jazz (big band, most 'smooth' jazz (Diana Krall doesn't actually take chances!!), third stream jazz etc) is very structured whilst some (free jazz) has none whatsoever. If you like structure try Mike Stern's solo stuff, or Miles Davis 'Sketches of Spain' or any of Bob Mintzer's Big Band Cds. Or Michel Camilo's 'One More Once' - they are all very structured. Most jazz is built on clearly defined forms that are set out in advance but only in the way that, for instance, a conversation about fish would be - it has a beginning and middle and an end and you can say anything you like as long as it it about fish. The freedom to express yourself as a jazz musician comes from the structures. Absolute musical freedom is massively overated! That's what Ron Carter said and I believe him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teen t-shirt Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 tell you what i will certainly have a look into those artists sorry 'musicians' you've suggested you really feel passionate about this don't you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) Love it! Its just the best! The pop/rock/funk stuff works for me for about two gigs before I start to get bored with the repetition. Latin stuff keeps me interested for about six gigs but jazz? Jazz is forever! PS Love the avatar - Floyd Pepper was an early influence! Edited February 13, 2008 by bilbo230763 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teen t-shirt Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) i will certainly have a look into these musicians but the main reason for my view is that jazz just aint my sort of music.... i know i know people say that every kind of music is a sub genre of jazz, but i believe that jazz is meant for some and not neccaserily for others.... thats just the way the cookie crumbles...... and thats the way ah ha ah ha i like it......... lol Bilbo i agree with your views i perhaps just don't agree on the same level as you.... sorry this post was intended instead of my last one.... ooops, but yeah i love floyd pepper too mainly for the large ginger tash tho Edited February 13, 2008 by teen t-shirt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 Just listening to Michael Brecker's 'Pilgimage' - massively great stuff! Metheny, Patitucci, DeJohnette, Hancock and Mehldau. Magic in real time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenofthedepths Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='138097' date='Feb 11 2008, 12:20 PM']Weather Report were a hybrid of world/jazz/fusion. Their whole catalogue is a panolpy of jazz/jazz funk/jazz rock/fusion/pop - just goes to show how inadequate labels can be. My favourite WR CDs are 'Night Passage', 'Mr Gone', 'Heavy Weather' and 'Procession'. 'Black Market' and 'Domino Theory' have some great tracks (Db waltz is COOKIN') but I prefer the first four I have listed. Oh and that Alphonso Johnson guy is seriously underated![/quote] I just got hold of Heavy Weather on the weekend and it's rather awesome! Thanks for the recommendation - I shall seek out some more Weather Report now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='135123' date='Feb 6 2008, 04:19 PM']There used to be plenty of jazz in Cardiff (that's where I cut my teeth in the 1980s) but I can't speak for it now. There is a guy called Jon Caulfield that knows his stuff, or Julian Martin (piano), Andy Maule (gtr), Paula Gardiner (bass), :ee Goodall, Osian Roberts, Dick Hamer (saxes) - keep you eyes out and go see some people play![/quote] I was in a band with Andy Maule in the late 80s (I'm from Cardiff originally) with regards to the tone of the rest of the conversation. re 'electric in jazz', surely you can accept that the double bass has qualities that are all its own, and that some people like those qualities, and they are entitled to like those qualities. I understand its frustrating when a sh*t UB player gets the gig before the player I imagine you to be Bilbo. I know there are some awful double bass 'owners' and I know that there are some instances of snobbery (BTW I play both and regard them equally) but there are certain gigs where I wouldn't dream of playing either one of them dependent upon what is required. The double bass deserves to live on and is definitely appropriate for certain gigs. Can you imagine three bass guitars in a section playing Eine Kleine Nachtmusik? I think there is sufficient like for like comparison in that example to make the desire to hear the qualities that an UB has, entirely legitimate. Its just that in other areas of the Genre the BG has entirely legitimised itself also. I would like to hear your thoughts on this further. I think my view is a reasonable one. what do you reckon? Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 I think the Double Bass is a wonderful instrument and my one regret in life will always be that I never got a chance to nail it (I had one for a couple of years in the late nineties but it coincided with a bad case of CTS and I had to put it down for good). My beef is not with people who legitmiately choose the double bass as their instrument of choice in a given ensemble. I just get narked when good players lose out on good gigs to people who can't play very well but own a double bass! I am also disappointed that more electric bass players (myself included) dont' get to do more 'serious' music because the electric players tend to only get called for pop/funk/jazz hybrids rather than creative contemporary improvised music. I slightly resent the fact that, as an electric player, I seem to have to spend my career continually playing repetitive lines and not the more creative, organic alternatives that are often allowed the double bass (RSI on top of CTS - ouch!)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='147870' date='Feb 27 2008, 02:52 PM']I think the Double Bass is a wonderful instrument and my one regret in life will always be that I never got a chance to nail it (I had one for a couple of years in the late nineties but it coincided with a bad case of CTS and I had to put it down for good). My beef is not with people who legitmiately choose the double bass as their instrument of choice in a given ensemble. I just get narked when good players lose out on good gigs to people who can't play very well but own a double bass! I am also disappointed that more electric bass players (myself included) dont' get to do more 'serious' music because the electric players tend to only get called for pop/funk/jazz hybrids rather than creative contemporary improvised music. I slightly resent the fact that, as an electric player, I seem to have to spend my career continually playing repetitive lines and not the more creative, organic alternatives that are often allowed the double bass (RSI on top of CTS - ouch!)?[/quote] fair comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul, the Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 [url="http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-02/niod-iji022608.php"]'In jazz improv, large portion of brain's prefrontal region 'takes 5' to let creativity flow'[/url] Not a bad article I StumbledUpon. --- Also, to anyone who knows of a youtube user called boberwig that had his account closed, I found it in dailymotion; a wonderful collection of jazz videos. [url="http://www.dailymotion.com/boberwig/1"]http://www.dailymotion.com/boberwig/1[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='147870' date='Feb 27 2008, 02:52 PM']I think the Double Bass is a wonderful instrument and my one regret in life will always be that I never got a chance to nail it (I had one for a couple of years in the late nineties but it coincided with a bad case of CTS and I had to put it down for good). My beef is not with people who legitmiately choose the double bass as their instrument of choice in a given ensemble. I just get narked when good players lose out on good gigs to people who can't play very well but own a double bass! I am also disappointed that more electric bass players (myself included) dont' get to do more 'serious' music because the electric players tend to only get called for pop/funk/jazz hybrids rather than creative contemporary improvised music. I slightly resent the fact that, as an electric player, I seem to have to spend my career continually playing repetitive lines and not the more creative, organic alternatives that are often allowed the double bass (RSI on top of CTS - ouch!)?[/quote] Point well made, however you should have seen the scene when I started out many years ago. Basses weren't miced so a player could get away with murder. There were more owners than players and I suspect that I got work from time to time simply because I could stand up with a bass - oh, and having Dad's car was helpful. I wish I'd bought some of the old basses though, at £50 a pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 19, 2008 Author Share Posted March 19, 2008 Just thought of another underated electric bass player with a creditable jazz pedigree of a sort. Kermit Driscoll. Anyone remember him? His technique was not the issue - his creativity was. The man was undoubtedly an original and his work with Bill Frissel is immediately recognisable (try 'Have A Little Faith' first). Is it jazz? Who cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 [quote name='Thunderthumbs' post='117959' date='Jan 10 2008, 04:40 PM']In all seriousness, probably not [b]most[/b] that dismiss it, but yes, a lot of people have a "Fast Show" opinion of jazz. Whether it was formed before or after seeing the Fast Show is a different matter. I'm not blaming The Fast Show for it, I'm just saying it exists. Obviously that opinion is out there otherwise the whole Jazz Club sketch wouldn't exist. Hence things like Chops' "Beret and beard" comment (no offence taken or meant).[/quote] I can remember visiting a jazz club a few times in Newcastle in the 90's at the far end of the quayside next to the law courts (was it the Little Theatre? Help me, fellow north-easterners!). This was when I was a teenager and in my "I must like jazz" phase. I remember this was before the Fast Show sketch, but if you'd have asked me, I'd have thought they'd have been in there the same nights as me! I loved the music, but there were some definite stereotypes in there. I remember one band saying "Look, this is our last number. We can't be bothered with all that clapping and coming back on stuff. This will be it". As soon as they walked offstage, a drunken woman and bearded man (both had no shoes on if I remember correctly) walked up the the front of stage and were shouting things like "Getcha goddamn asses back on the goddamn stage" in faux American-mixed-with-Geordie accents. Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Some nice new stuff on my cd player: Robert Glasper Trio - My Element Jason Robello - Next Time Around Iain Ballamy - More Jazz Taylor Eigsti - Lucky To Be Me Troy Miller - 40 Days I asked some jazz fans around me what they were into and these came up - all quality acts with first class work. Anybody else listening to any new jazz? Also downloaded Janek Gwizdala's 'Mystery To Me' off CD Baby - some nice creative stuff in there, particularly nice horn arrangements. Nice to hear a bass player's record that is defined by the music and not by the bass playing. S'cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey D Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='164497' date='Mar 27 2008, 02:30 PM']Some nice new stuff on my cd player: Robert Glasper Trio - My Element Jason Robello - Next Time Around Iain Ballamy - More Jazz Taylor Eigsti - Lucky To Be Me Troy Miller - 40 Days I asked some jazz fans around me what they were into and these came up - all quality acts with first class work. Anybody else listening to any new jazz? Also downloaded Janek Gwizdala's 'Mystery To Me' off CD Baby - some nice creative stuff in there, particularly nice horn arrangements. Nice to hear a bass player's record that is defined by the music and not by the bass playing. S'cool.[/quote] Saw Robert Glasper's trio on tuesday..absolutely great. The Drummer (Chris Dave) is now officially my favourite drummer ever. Wasn't overwhelmed by the bassist Alan Hampton, but he held his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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