Mark Bass - I've never liked them

[The Dark Lord]

I played bass (2010 USA Jazz and 1994 Warwick Fortress fretless) through a Mark Bass combo for the second time last week. First time was a 1x15 combo at a rehearsal venue in Brighton. Last week was a 2 x 10 combo in a similar place in Worthing.

I just can't get a decent sound out of them that I like. Very muddy sounding. Things got better when I stuck a Line 6 X3 live in front of them - but, on their own, I just hate 'em.

As I'm going to have to make do with them at rehearsals, I need to get on with it and see how they go.

Anyone got any advice?

[Kiwi]

The amps are pretty good. The speakers are a little woolly, but do add some nice growly midrange to a jazz bass.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='mercuryl' post='1030830' date='Nov 20 2010, 08:19 PM']I played bass (2010 USA Jazz and 1994 Warwick Fortress fretless) through a Mark Bass combo for the second time last week. First time was a 1x15 combo at a rehearsal venue in Brighton. Last week was a 2 x 10 combo in a similar place in Worthing.

I just can't get a decent sound out of them that I like. Very muddy sounding. Things got better when I stuck a Line 6 X3 live in front of them - but, on their own, I just hate 'em.

As I'm going to have to make do with them at rehearsals, I need to get on with it and see how they go.

Anyone got any advice?[/quote]
I like them. I had a LMII that I was very happy with until it went to pay for my Mesa.

The 1x15 combo at Electric in Brighton always sounds fine to me, but what you call muddy I probably call thump.

Edited November 20, 2010 by EssentialTension

[Dood]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='1030834' date='Nov 20 2010, 08:21 PM']The amps are pretty good. The speakers are a little woolly, but do add some nice growly midrange to a jazz bass.[/quote]

Yep, same experience here so far. I love the amps in to other cabs, but never got what I wanted from an MB cabinet - but hey, each to their own eh? - loadsa people love 'em.

[LawrenceH]

I find the Markbass tone the opposite of woolly - there's a pretty aggressive midrange to those speakers (and the frequency plots of the equivalent B&C stock 10" drivers bear this out with a rising response across the mids).
Apologies for an obvious point, but one thing worth checking when using the combos is that the VLE/VPF filters are off to start with, they're not like EQ knobs where the centre is off, you have to turn them fully anti-clockwise. Too much of them and woolliness ensues.

[Faithless]

Well, MB cabs are famous of their midrangey sound, so the problem must be somewhere else.

Try lifting cab up, or tilting it back.. EQ'ing also helps - you don't want to fill your sound with lots of bass and low mids.

[JTUK]

2x10 combo...centre all the tone controls and then tweak the V controls between 10-2 o'clock. That would be my starting
point and I never fail to get a working sound.

Really rate this combo.

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='mercuryl' post='1030830' date='Nov 20 2010, 08:19 PM']I just can't get a decent sound out of them that I like. Very muddy sounding. Things got better when I stuck a Line 6 X3 live in front of them - but, on their own, I just hate 'em.

...........

Anyone got any advice?[/quote]

There is something wrong with this statement , anyone who finds Mark Bass amps to be bad needs their ear checked, you probably have been exposed to too many years of bad amplification that has warped or tainted your appreciation of what is good as opposed to bad.

No offence intended by the way, in my 36 years of playing I have had many decent bass amps from really expensive to cheap as chips, Gallien Kruger, Laney, Mesa Boogie, Trace Elliot, Line 6, Crate, Ibanez, Ashdown etc etc, each have their own way of adding a forced colour, let's call it "trendy tonality" to the sound to please either a rock player or a blues player or else.

What makes Mark Bass different is the fact they they manage to amplify a bass in total transparency and if you don't like what you hear then your bass is wrong, simple as that. I mean it. If you try one of the newest tube driven Mark Bass you will find you don't even need a compressor to propel your "frequencies" evenly. the full tranny Class D ones can benefit from the use of a decent compressor to be able to give you a more direct thump rather than disperse the sound according to the venue in which it is being played. The other thing you must ask yourself is do I need a monitor type of amp, connected to the mixing board for larger volume, or do I need a large size stack like an 8 by 10" speakers? No good having a single 1 x 15 or a 2 x 12" if you are playing a large club, you need more than that to really shift a sound that will cut through guitars, keyboards, drummers and singers.

I hope I didn't come across too cocky, it wasn't my intention.

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1030883' date='Nov 20 2010, 09:23 PM']I find the Markbass tone the opposite of woolly - there's a pretty aggressive midrange to those speakers (and the frequency plots of the equivalent B&C stock 10" drivers bear this out with a rising response across the mids).
Apologies for an obvious point, but one thing worth checking when using the combos is that the VLE/VPF filters are off to start with, they're not like EQ knobs where the centre is off, you have to turn them fully anti-clockwise. Too much of them and woolliness ensues.[/quote]
Right. Next time I use one, I'll get my glasses on and check out what you have just said. There's no point in me grumbling as, whether I like it or not, that's the amp I will come across most in the practice venues I go to - so I need to try to work with it. I'll also look up the amp controls on the web before I go - so that I know which knob is which. Thanks for the tip!

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' post='1031015' date='Nov 20 2010, 11:38 PM']There is something wrong with this statement , anyone who finds Mark Bass amps to be bad needs their ear checked, you probably have been exposed to too many years of bad amplification that has warped or tainted your appreciation of what is good as opposed to bad.

No offence intended by the way, in my 36 years of playing I have had many decent bass amps from really expensive to cheap as chips, Gallien Kruger, Laney, Mesa Boogie, Trace Elliot, Line 6, Crate, Ibanez, Ashdown etc etc, each have their own way of adding a forced colour, let's call it "trendy tonality" to the sound to please either a rock player or a blues player or else.

What makes Mark Bass different is the fact they they manage to amplify a bass in total transparency and if you don't like what you hear then your bass is wrong, simple as that. I mean it. If you try one of the newest tube driven Mark Bass you will find you don't even need a compressor to propel your "frequencies" evenly. the full tranny Class D ones can benefit from the use of a decent compressor to be able to give you a more direct thump rather than disperse the sound according to the venue in which it is being played. The other thing you must ask yourself is do I need a monitor type of amp, connected to the mixing board for larger volume, or do I need a large size stack like an 8 by 10" speakers? No good having a single 1 x 15 or a 2 x 12" if you are playing a large club, you need more than that to really shift a sound that will cut through guitars, keyboards, drummers and singers.

I hope I didn't come across too cocky, it wasn't my intention.[/quote]
It's probably a personal taste thing. I have some Marshalls (MB and an old Superbass) as my gigging backline. I also have one of the Superfly 500s with the 4 x 8 when space is tight. I'll have a look at the amp controls online and see what I can do. Maybe it's the modern sound I don't like!

[pantherairsoft]

I used to be a Markbass user. The only reason I moved was that I found the markbass high-mids and top end to be very harsh sounding… emphasising slight mis-frets and a nasty harsh click when playing slap. Lovely low mid and bottom end, but the top just lacked a nice tone. i moved to EBS and have not regretted it. I do miss the lightness of the amp heads and the nice yellow colours, but tonally for me, they are just lacking where it matters.

[bobbass4k]

I loved my LM250, they do actually deliver on their promise of completely colourless amplification. With the eq set flat, it's just your bass sound but louder. If you like your bass sound then it's great, but I think a lot of people are used to their sound been coloured by the amp and have never actually heard their pure bass sound before. The VLE and VPF controls need to be used very carefully too, someone played through my LM250 and didn't get that the VLE and VPF aren't eq controls, they go from off to max. He set everything to noon and hated the sound, while he was berating me i turned the VLE and VPF off and he loved it.

If you don't like them then fair enough, but as someone else said it may be down more to your bass than the amp, I found the eq ws very powerful too and required quite judicious usage, I don't think I ever set anything to full.

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='bobbass4k' post='1031116' date='Nov 21 2010, 03:51 AM']I loved my LM250, they do actually deliver on their promise of completely colourless amplification. With the eq set flat, it's just your bass sound but louder. If you like your bass sound then it's great, but I think a lot of people are used to their sound been coloured by the amp and have never actually heard their pure bass sound before. The VLE and VPF controls need to be used very carefully too, someone played through my LM250 and didn't get that the VLE and VPF aren't eq controls, they go from off to max. He set everything to noon and hated the sound, while he was berating me i turned the VLE and VPF off and he loved it.

If you don't like them then fair enough, but as someone else said it may be down more to your bass than the amp, I found the eq ws very powerful too and required quite judicious usage, I don't think I ever set anything to full.[/quote]
Yep. This has all been good advice. I also set everything to "noon". Thinking everything was a tone control. I didn't realise what these "VLE and VPF" controls were. When I didn't like the muddy sound, I upped the treble control and things got better - but still not quite there. So I got out my Line 6 X3Live, put everything to noon again and used the SVT setting on the Line 6 .... where things became acceptable (rather than good).

I think the morale of the story is that I didn't know how to use those amps. I will have a look at the controls online before I go to those places again and try to get a handle on the VLE and VPF controls next time.

I'll see if I can report back after I play 'em again.

[xgsjx]

I'd never have thought I'd hear an MB combo being described as wooly! What do you class the Ashdown sound as, padded cell?

When I first got my combo I thought the top end was a little over zingy, but turning the treble down a tad & making use of the amp's filters & the tone controls on my bass worked fine for me.

I'd check the VLE isn't fully on if you try another anytime.

[bartelby]

I've only recently got a Markbass head (and a 4 x 8" cab) so I'm still finding my way with it. But I was really surprised by how different my basses sounded through it, through my old amp they all sounded very similar, with just subtle differences.

[EssentialTension]

I always ran my LMII with the EQ flat and then used the VPF and VLE to add in the tone I wanted. It worked well with two Ashdown 1x15s and better with an Ampeg 4x10.

[dan670844]

[quote name='mercuryl' post='1030830' date='Nov 20 2010, 08:19 PM']I played bass (2010 USA Jazz and 1994 Warwick Fortress fretless) through a Mark Bass combo for the second time last week. First time was a 1x15 combo at a rehearsal venue in Brighton. Last week was a 2 x 10 combo in a similar place in Worthing.

I just can't get a decent sound out of them that I like. Very muddy sounding. Things got better when I stuck a Line 6 X3 live in front of them - but, on their own, I just hate 'em.

As I'm going to have to make do with them at rehearsals, I need to get on with it and see how they go.

Anyone got any advice?[/quote]


Never tried em, they are far too orange for me....... but other geezers I know seem to get a good sound out of em..........
I remain to be convinced about any amps that use class d power sections though, they seem to have hardly any dynamic range but I have only tried a few, the valve amp they have just bought out looks the nuts though

[chris_b]

I used to have an LM2 and have played an LMK and I though both amps were very good. I played my LM2 through Epifani cabs and they matched very well. I would never describe Markbass as woolly. The clarity and definition with a ton of fat bass is the one thing that made me a fan.

Markbass will never sound like Ashdown or Marshall so if that's what you are expecting then you'll always be disappointed.

Over use of the EQ will kill your sound. Run Markbass flat with only minor adjustments and you'll get a great sound. As always with these modern amps if you have any "problems" with your technique or bass you'll be found out.

[stonecoldbass]

[quote name='Faithless' post='1030889' date='Nov 20 2010, 10:39 PM']Well, MB cabs are famous of their midrangey sound, so the problem must be somewhere else.

Try lifting cab up, or tilting it back.. EQ'ing also helps - you don't want to fill your sound with lots of bass and low mids.[/quote]
Why would you not want your bass to have bass and low mids exactly...?! I have to say Faithless, I find many of your posts antagonistic, flippant and overly opinionated. This is meant to be a community whereby we can help and inform each other, not not argue with and dictate to...
Rgds,
Craig

Edited November 22, 2010 by stonecoldbass

[niceguyhomer]

I've had four Markbass heads - LMIIs, an LMIII and the 500 watt LM Tube head I'm currently using. I love the heads especially the Tube one but never got on with the cabs - too middy and at the same time woolly. I bought a new 2x10 combo about a year ago and sold it within a matter of weeks - hated it. Spent all my time knob twiddling looking for a usable sound.

The heads sound brilliant through the Epifani UL310, Bergantino 2 x 1x12 and Aguilar 2 x 1x12 cabs I had.

[51m0n]

VLE is very like a passive tone control, it is a shelving eq with -NdB. In the off (fully anticlockwise position) the control is operating over 20KHz, so you cant hear it, as you turn the control clockwise the frequency drops - at full clockwise its way down at 250HZ. Sorry I cant remember exactly what N in -NdB is, but its around -9dB IIRC (ie plenty).

VPF is a variable mid scoop type control, centered around about 380Hz. Again its off when fully anti-clockwise but as you turn this up the frequency doesn't shift, the amount of dB reduction does.

As with any mid scooping the perception is more bass and treble. On its own this sounds great, the danger in a band mix, though, is that pulling out your mids too much makes it very hard to hear what you are doing.

Personally turning either of these over 10 O'clock is way too much for me. The VLE is nice for curtailing the extra perceived top from the VPF if it gets too much.

I prefer to use the more tunable sweepable mids off my sa450, since I can get them just how I want them.

I can't imagine how many other people have been turned off Markbass amps because they didnt understand these two controls, surely a sign that the facia graphics are not clear enough...

[Musicman20]

Definitely try it flat, no filters.

Perhaps try the F1/F500 - less warm, more punchy, very 'fast' response.

Cabs - Never tried them enough. Their new NY122 is nice though.

[JMT3781]

i really don't get the wooly thing people are saying?? For me, they have always been crisp and defined.. maybe thats down to the basses i use.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXaqoaBuSos"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXaqoaBuSos[/url]

thats two MB 4x10's with a Glockenklang pre and class D power Amp

[Musicman20]

I dont really think the cabs are wooly, but ive barely used them. They do seem very loud, very mid focussed (I dont mind that at all) and extremely well built. Those speakers can take a hell of a wallop as well. Crazy to watch how much they move.

[alanbass1]

[quote name='mercuryl' post='1031102' date='Nov 21 2010, 01:56 AM']It's probably a personal taste thing. I have some Marshalls (MB and an old Superbass) as my gigging backline. I also have one of the Superfly 500s with the 4 x 8 when space is tight. I'll have a look at the amp controls online and see what I can do. Maybe it's the modern sound I don't like![/quote]

Probably is - I like my MB TA501 a lot although my TC RH450 gets the gigging time as it has a more 'old school' tone. I have to say that I'm not a fan of their cabs (I got a 1x15/2x10 pair of cabs to team up with my TA501 and they promptly went back to whence they came). The thing is, if someone don't like their sound don't buy 'em.....

Edited November 22, 2010 by alanbass1