String muting

[SaxxyBass]

Hi all,

I'm finding my way round my bass quite well now and have no problem muting open strings with my left hand if necessary but I'm having a bit of a problem with string muting if my left hand is fairly busy. I can't do floating thumb as I need to anchor my thumb on the pickup because I have a permanent problem with my arm - hand is fine just the arm (long story!) So for instance If I'm playing a blues progression and I need to mute the strings that are not in use I'm struggling a bit. I'm fine muting using each finger individually as I "walk" them, I'm doing that quite naturally but then if I move up to play the D and G strings then the E and A strings can ring out - any suggestions how to mute them with my right hand without taking my thumb off its anchor?

Edited November 22, 2010 by SaxxyBass

[mcgraham]

I'm sorry to hear of your problem with your arm. As I am not a doctor, anything I say below comes with the caveat that I have no idea how it may affect your ailment.

My first suggestion would be to, if possible, learn to use a movable anchor. So instead of anchoring on the lowest pickup, anchor it a string below whatever you string you happen to be playing. If you're playing the E, anchor on the pickup; if you're playing the A, anchor on the E, etc. Try and lower the heel of your hand towards the bass from whatever position your hand is in so that it contacts the lower strings (where relevant) and mutes them. This is sort of a half-way house between floating thumb and permanent anchoring, and shouldn't take too much work if physically possible.

My second suggestion, would be to use your free fingers on your right hand to mute lower strings (John Patitucci and Janek Gwizdala do this, I believe). So keep playing as you do currently, but once you ascend to the D string, place your ring finger on the A string to prevent it ringing out. Once you ascend to the G string, place your pinky on the A and your ring on the D to prevent it ringing out. This would take a lot of practice though.

Use of the left hand to mute notes is also critical, particularly if RH muting is limited as in your case.

[icastle]

[quote name='SaxxyBass' post='1032307' date='Nov 22 2010, 10:15 AM']Hi all,

I'm finding my way round my bass quite well now and have no problem muting open strings with my left hand if necessary but I'm having a bit of a problem with string muting if my left hand is fairly busy. I can't do floating thumb as I need to anchor my thumb on the pickup because I have a permanent problem with my arm - hand is fine just the arm (long story!) So for instance If I'm playing a blues progression and I need to mute the strings that are not in use I'm struggling a bit. I'm fine muting using each finger individually as I "walk" them, I'm doing that quite naturally but then if I move up to play the D and G strings then the E and A strings can ring out - any suggestions how to mute them with my right hand without taking my thumb off its anchor? [/quote]

After having a quick check, I use both or either hand(s) to mute strings depending on what's going on at the time.
I'm using unused (and not about to be used) fingers on the left hand to mute strings and use my thumb on my right hand to finish the job off if I need to.

If you have a problem with your arm being unsupported, have you tried lowering your strap a few inches and using the body of the bass to support your upper forearm on? That'd perhaps give you a floating thumb back... I don't know what's wrong with your arm so only you will know whether that's good or bad for it

[SaxxyBass]

Thanks for your suggestions.

I had a stroke some years back and it's difficult to explain but I have altered sensation in my skin and the fine coordination in my arm isn't up to scratch (luckily my hand is unaffected), so when I try to use floating thumb I'm finding it difficult to find the correct string quickly enough. I am supporting my lower arm on the bass, but because the skin is a bit numb it just feels more secure having my thumb anchored in the same place - having said that it might just feel awkard to everybody at first?

I think I'll go and look up John Patitucci and Janek Gwizdala and try mcgrahams second suggestion - muting with the ring and little finger as that way I can leave my thumb where it is and see how that goes.

[icastle]

[quote name='SaxxyBass' post='1032502' date='Nov 22 2010, 12:48 PM']I am supporting my lower arm on the bass, but because the skin is a bit numb it just feels more secure having my thumb anchored in the same place - having said that it might just feel awkard to everybody at first?[/quote]

I think that's perhaps very likely.
I can remember thinking "there's no way I'm ever going to manage to do that" and nowadays I have to go and pick up an instrument to remind myself just what it is that I do because it's become automatic and I no longer think about it.

On the other hand that could just be senility of course...

[SaxxyBass]

[quote name='icastle' post='1032513' date='Nov 22 2010, 12:57 PM']I think that's perhaps very likely.
I can remember thinking "there's no way I'm ever going to manage to do that" and nowadays I have to go and pick up an instrument to remind myself just what it is that I do because it's become automatic and I no longer think about it.

On the other hand that could just be senility of course... [/quote]

So true - same with me on the Sax!

And yes could be that with me too

[Doddy]

[quote name='SaxxyBass' post='1032502' date='Nov 22 2010, 12:48 PM']I think I'll go and look up John Patitucci and Janek Gwizdala and try mcgrahams second suggestion - muting with the ring and little finger as that way I can leave my thumb where it is and see how that goes. [/quote]

What Patitucci does is mute with both his thumb and ring/little fingers. When he's soloing on the higher strings,his thumb rests on
the D string while also touching the A. Meanwhile his ring finger mutes the E and his little finger is muting the B string.
Janek does alot of muting by using the thumb as a movable anchor the same way as Patitucci does,only his fingers don't
hang back as much. Usually,if his thumb is on the A string,his ring/little fingers will be muting around the D string.

[Cat Burrito]

Technique aside I find foam under the strings up by the bridge works for me. It may not be appropriate for everyone but I use it all the time now

[thisnameistaken]

I wouldn't stress about learning the so-called "floating thumb" picking technique. Hardly anybody uses it because it's an over-engineered solution to a non-problem.

[SaxxyBass]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1033070' date='Nov 22 2010, 07:12 PM']I wouldn't stress about learning the so-called "floating thumb" picking technique. Hardly anybody uses it because it's an over-engineered solution to a non-problem.[/quote]

Do you think that's because under normal playing conditions (ie youre not doing a harmonic melodic solo) no one would notice any unwanted sound? If that's the case I'll carry on with what I'm doing (cos it's easier )

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='SaxxyBass' post='1033124' date='Nov 22 2010, 07:59 PM']Do you think that's because under normal playing conditions (ie youre not doing a harmonic melodic solo) no one would notice any unwanted sound? If that's the case I'll carry on with what I'm doing (cos it's easier )[/quote]

Well no that wasn't the angle I was coming from but I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong.

I do often have to play very cleanly because I'm using an analogue octaver which will choke on the slightest hint of noise and often I'm up front in a mix or playing intros like that and so on, but I get away without using floating arms or whatever. So does Victor Wooten and he's quite well-regarded in bass anorak circles. Not to mention Pastorius, etc.

I think you'll naturally start muting where you need to mute without really having to put any effort into thinking about it. And I am a big fan of solutions that don't involve doing any work or thinking.

Edited November 22, 2010 by thisnameistaken

[SaxxyBass]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1033217' date='Nov 22 2010, 09:36 PM']Well no that wasn't the angle I was coming from but I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong.

I do often have to play very cleanly because I'm using an analogue octaver which will choke on the slightest hint of noise and often I'm up front in a mix or playing intros like that and so on, but I get away without using floating arms or whatever. So does Victor Wooten and he's quite well-regarded in bass anorak circles. Not to mention Pastorius, etc.

I think you'll naturally start muting where you need to mute without really having to put any effort into thinking about it. And I am a big fan of solutions that don't involve doing any work or thinking.[/quote]

I'll get on with enjoying it then (because I've been getting all tense about it!) and hopefully it will come naturally when I need it!

[XB26354]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1033070' date='Nov 22 2010, 07:12 PM']I wouldn't stress about learning the so-called "floating thumb" picking technique. Hardly anybody uses it because it's an over-engineered solution to a non-problem.[/quote]

It might be on a 4-string (although I know mcgraham uses it on a 4) but not if you've got more than that. I didn't even know it was called that and naturally developed it when I started playing 6-strings about 15 years ago. Doesn't mean it's not worth a go. I've got a guitar book by Ivor Mairants (who in addition to being a very fine classical guitarist was a pioneer of the "floating wrist" guitar technique, i.e., not rest ring or ring/little fingers on the top of the guitar). He was good friends with both Wes Montgomery and George Benson, both of whom, despite their very different styles, envied the fluidity and smoothness of Ivor's picking technique. The thumb anchor is comfortable and relatively easy on a 4 but I found certain things tricky to play. As soon as I got rid of the anchor (and got over the slightly unpleasant feeling of not knowing where I was) things became much smoother and easier. I also tend to play a little but lighter, which, depending on what your want to achieve, works nicely to fatten up the tone.
Anyway, back on topic. Muting comes in various guises. By far the most annoying problem is a ringing low string. Low strings create a nasty rumble which you WILL hear in the studio (and the audience will hear onstage) and WILL muddy up your sound - fine if you want it, but what if you want to get rid of it? Again, as mcgraham suggested (I think), play the E, thumb on the pickup. Play the A, thumb on the E string. Play the D or G strings, thumb on the A string, with the fleshy part toward the hand lightly touching the E.

As a final bit of advice, whatever you choose, make sure you are relaxed. Any tension will limit your technique and make your sound twitchy and uneven - something I learned from a drum teaching video, of all things!

[gilmour]

You should check out some Rocco Prestia he has a plethora of right (and left) hand muting techniques he rinses that stuff, usually using the ring and pinky fingers on the right hand.

I'm sure there's some of his tuition stuff on YouTube

[mcgraham]

[quote]I wouldn't stress about learning the so-called "floating thumb" picking technique. Hardly anybody uses it because it's an over-engineered solution to a non-problem.[/quote]

I wouldn't call it overengineering - if you consider the mechanics of the floating thumb, it's actually by far the simplest solution and is very effective. You don't need to learn to switch anchored strings with your thumb, or move your ring/pinky from string to string; you don't need to bend your wrist more to reach higher strings; you don't need to have a pickup to anchor on. You also won't get carpal tunnel by having a bent wrist, because you don't have one using floating thumb.

I will freely acknowledge that if your technique is good enough for what you want to do, and there's no danger of injury, then there is no need to stress about it. Anchoring did me fine for years, but in the end I found it too limiting and too much work (as above). Movable anchor then did me fine but I still found it, in the end, limiting and too much work. I then, eventually, switched to floating thumb because I wanted to do things that the other techniques hindered rather than helped. Sure I could've worked harder to use the same technique, but why fight something that I don't have to when there's a simpler easier solution out there?

[SaxxyBass]

Ah.....I think I'm confusing floating thumb with moveable anchor?

I only know about moving my thumb from string to string - ie thumb on pickup for E and A strings (fingers muting both as necessary as I walk them) then thumb on the E string for the D string (fingers muting the A and D as necessary as I walk them) and thumb on the A for the G string only (fingers muting D and G as necessary as I walk them).

I had a go at this last night and although changing string was a bit slow and I had to think about it it did start to improve - moving down a string was not a problem but coming back up was - and all my coordination went awry! I will keep at it though as I want to get it sorted now instead of having to change it all later.

[icastle]

[quote name='SaxxyBass' post='1033558' date='Nov 23 2010, 09:28 AM']Ah.....I think I'm confusing floating thumb with moveable anchor?

I only know about moving my thumb from string to string - ie thumb on pickup for E and A strings (fingers muting both as necessary as I walk them) then thumb on the E string for the D string (fingers muting the A and D as necessary as I walk them) and thumb on the A for the G string only (fingers muting D and G as necessary as I walk them).

I had a go at this last night and although changing string was a bit slow and I had to think about it it did start to improve - moving down a string was not a problem but coming back up was - and all my coordination went awry! I will keep at it though as I want to get it sorted now instead of having to change it all later. [/quote]

Whilst resisting the terrible urge to make nautical comments about moving anchors and floating thumbs, perserverence, trial and error will get you the solution that fits you and your style of playing best.
Put it this way, give me a saxophone and I'll get a note out of it... eventually, but it'd take me weeks to suss out how to get a tune out of it so you're streets ahead

...sorry I stopped concentrating and the nautical thing came back...

Edited November 23, 2010 by icastle

[mcgraham]

It's an easy mistake to make! Floating thumb has no anchor, the thumb slides across the surface defined by the curvature of the strings. Movable anchor has clearly defined anchor points across that same surface, i.e. the strings themselves.

Both are fine, but the former is more energy efficient all things being equal.

[SaxxyBass]

[quote name='icastle' post='1033675' date='Nov 23 2010, 11:00 AM']Whilst resisting the terrible urge to make nautical comments about moving anchors and floating thumbs, perserverence, trial and error will get you the solution that fits you and your style of playing best.
Put it this way, give me a saxophone and I'll get a note out of it... eventually, but it'd take me weeks to suss out how to get a tune out of it so you're streets ahead

...sorry I stopped concentrating and the nautical thing came back... [/quote]

Eye Eye Cap'n

Trouble is I am just very, very impatient!

[quote name='mcgraham' post='1033691' date='Nov 23 2010, 11:16 AM']It's an easy mistake to make! Floating thumb has no anchor, the thumb slides across the surface defined by the curvature of the strings. Movable anchor has clearly defined anchor points across that same surface, i.e. the strings themselves.

Both are fine, but the former is more energy efficient all things being equal.[/quote]

Where do you put your thumb when you play the E sting?

[mcgraham]

Mine usually rests lightly against the body of the bass, sometimes the tip of my thumb abuts the corner of the pickup, sometimes it even hovers and the arm supports it. Depends on the bass. It's a bit weird at first, but I've never found it to be a problem.

Floating thumb is particularly good for freedom of movement as you are not affixed/anchored at any point, which is what I wanted to achieve for some of the lines and players I like to imitate.

EDIT: I should point out that I am in agreement with thisnameistaken in that this is not the only technique one should use - there are many successful players with other safe and efficient techniques. I'm just trying to explain why I find it works - and I do have the experience of having used the other techniques (and other more zany techniques) for many years for many gigs, and I find floating thumb to be the most effective for what I want.

Edited November 23, 2010 by mcgraham

[icastle]

[quote name='SaxxyBass' post='1033724' date='Nov 23 2010, 11:45 AM']Eye Eye Cap'n
Trouble is I am just very, very impatient! [/quote]

No sh*t Sherlock...

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='icastle' post='1033675' date='Nov 23 2010, 11:00 AM']Put it this way, give me a saxophone and I'll get a note out of it... eventually, but it'd take me weeks to suss out how to get a tune out of it so you're streets ahead [/quote]

I think I can still remember how to play Mercy, Mercy, Mercy on sax.

I don't even like Mercy, Mercy, Mercy...

[icastle]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1033899' date='Nov 23 2010, 02:03 PM']I think I can still remember how to play Mercy, Mercy, Mercy on sax.

I don't even like Mercy, Mercy, Mercy...[/quote]

Obviously not if you're prepared to play it on sax...

[BobTheBassist]

Having looked I find tha I keep my thumg rested lightly on the pickup, play with index and middle and mute with ring and pinky if I need to. You might also find that with time your left hand will mute the string it was on as you leave it (kinda like when you play stacato).

Not sure how useful this will be though, I have freakishly huge hands!