Overdrive/distortion guru's, share you wisdom!

[wotnwhy]

I am a funk/reggae player by nature but have been playing with a very heavy metal band for a while now. Things are going well and we have a really good set, but we are just guitar bass and drums and it is becoming apparent that there are parts where i need some grit in my sound to fill things out. But my lack of experience in the fields of metal and effects means i have no idea where to start on my hunt, but i know what i want the effect to be doing so i was hoping that with an explanation of what i want your collective knowladge can guide me down the right path

so...

I play pick, finger and slap in the set, so a good response to dynamics is important.
I have a 'big' and 'forcefull' tone in the lower ends which i do not want dirtied, are there pedal with crossovers or something so only the upper mids/top end is effected?
Tone wise i'm thinking more tube/fuzz than scream/grit, something powerfull in the mids that widens the notes and pushes them out in the mix (if that makes sense?)
My natural tone is very important and i don't want it sucked either when the effect is on or off, so somthing with a true bypass as well as the effected output being a mix of dry and wet signals.


I have thought about the possibility of a splitter box, sending one signal clean to my Eden rig, then putting the effected signal into my Tecamp combo. This would leave my clean tone unmolested and allow me the most control over the dirty tone, but if there's a pedal out there that can do the job this would be preffered as i like to keep things simple.

So, lets hear what you think!

[Noisyjon]

I'm not up on what will effect just upper mids & treble but I can highly recommend the MXR M80 DI+
It sits in a band mix very well and there's loads of Rock & Metal players using them...

[voxpop]

I use this ...... [url="http://www.reussenzehn.de/roehrenverstaerker//DE/content?cont_id=148&Grp_id=6"]http://www.reussenzehn.de/roehrenverstaerk...48&Grp_id=6[/url]

Its the weirdest thing I've ever had the pleasure to use, pure valve tone with a very creamy overdrive.

It has a volume knob that ONLY controls the boost to the valve. This can give a huge gain in volume or simply a little nudge for solos. I found at around half way you get the same volume as when the effect is off, turn it down and you can lower the volume and have a valve warmth or turn it the over way to 10 for full on overdrive distortion. On the side is a Boost 1-4 switch, this takes away the bass frequencies so you can go from a warm Motown tone (4) thru to a treble bite that will take your hair off (1). This boost switch at first had me stumped as to why I would want to remove the bass frequencies. The solution is to put it in an effects loop or blender pedal so only the mid - top is overdriven and the bass frequencies are kept clean. Clarity and dirt all at the same time....genius.

In short is quite an amazing product if you want to have some valve goodness, small boost in volume or a huge jump in gain and tone.

Hope this helps.

Edited November 22, 2010 by voxpop

[wotnwhy]

Hi, thanks for the response Had a listen to a few demo video's and tbh didn't really hear much i liked. However clicked on the dunlop demo of the blowtorch and was pretty wowed! The sounds were good and the features seemed to have everything i was after; true bypass, blend or wet and dry signal outs, extended mid control.

Any suggestions of pedals in the same area as the blowtorch?

[DanOwens]

How about the Ashdown Lomenzo Hyperdrive?

It gets some good reviews. [[url="http://www.bassguitarmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=223:ashdown-james-lomenzo-hyper-drive-pedal-issue-36&catid=39:pedals"]CLICK[/url]]

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='jonthebass' post='1032527' date='Nov 22 2010, 01:07 PM']I'm not up on what will effect just upper mids & treble but I can highly recommend the MXR M80 DI+
It sits in a band mix very well and there's loads of Rock & Metal players using them...[/quote]
+1 on the m-80.

i also love the hartke vxl for OD.

mild od>mxr blowtorch is fun (or indeed any blendable fuzz).

a split/mix pedal might be a good idea, one like the sfx job.. i'll look it up.

edit

[url="http://www.sfxsound.co.uk/mainpage.asp?page=sm"]http://www.sfxsound.co.uk/mainpage.asp?page=sm[/url]

Edited November 22, 2010 by phil.i.stein

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='DanOwens' post='1032888' date='Nov 22 2010, 05:03 PM']How about the Ashdown Lomenzo Hyperdrive?

It gets some good reviews. [[url="http://www.bassguitarmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=223:ashdown-james-lomenzo-hyper-drive-pedal-issue-36&catid=39:pedals"]CLICK[/url]][/quote]


These are great, but the tru path is running two rigs, clean and dirty, just cut the lows from the dirty to avoid comb filtering issues.

[Alien]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1033000' date='Nov 22 2010, 06:17 PM']These are great, but the tru path is running two rigs, clean and dirty, just cut the lows from the dirty to avoid comb filtering issues.[/quote]

A similar option would be to use a switchable Y splitter, with the dirty output going through an EQ pedal to pull out everything below 100Hz or so, into a guitar amp. The amp wouldn't have to be anything special (maybe 30-50W with 1 or 2 12's in it) as long as it makes an acceptable noise.

A

[wotnwhy]

Thanks for the responses guys

Obviously the ideal way to achieve what i want is to split the signal, and send the effected signal to my Tecamp. However i would like to avoid this as it would mean i'm going from a;

bass-lead-rig

setup to

bass-lead-splitter -lead-rig
_______________-lead-distortion-lead-rig

2 rigs to setup, both physically and tone wise, as well as getting the right mix of levels both onstage and off for the 2 rigs together and getting their mix with the guitar and drums right. I'm sure if i got it right the sound would be extremely good, and certainly better than i could get with just 1 rig. But i'm a fan of a simple setup, put bass amp on stage, plug it in, plug in bass, turn on amp, adjust volume to suit, done. And i just don't want the extra hassle and stress that comes with a more complicated setup, so for now i think i want the solution to be a one rig job.

As for the sound of the pedal, i see the blowtorch is described as 'mild'. So i guess i'm looking for something mild! As i said in my first post "i'm thinking more tube/fuzz than scream/grit". I don't want a lot of 'noise' and chaos added, i just want thickness and drive added to notes. So fuzz/tube over overdrive/distortion i guess?

Edited November 23, 2010 by wotnwhy

[wotnwhy]

I had an EHX big muff and found the sound too fluffy and un-defined. Will have a look at the turbo rat and v-twin.

[wotnwhy]

The Turbo Rat has no blend of wet and dry signals, so thats out.

Due to the price i think the V-Twin will remain an outside contender unless i can find some demo's of it being used for bass that blow my world apart!

Quite impressed with the sound and features on the Markbass Distorsore pedal, think i prefer it to the MXR (though youtube clips hardly build a suitable picture... lol), and the high + low pass filters mean my low end sound can stay pure rather than compromising witha blend control. But the price is pretty high so it's still a close running between the MXR and Markbass.

So! Thoughts and comparisons between the 2?

Any other ideas?

Edited November 23, 2010 by wotnwhy

[Mr. Foxen]

Boss LS2 and you can mix away to your hearts content. But if you want a simple rig for stage, bring the dirty one, and a DI for the clean one.

[DanOwens]

How about a DHA too?

I really love mine and it can do immense blossoming overdrive as well as bit-o-grit.

Cheap second hand too!

Dan

[wotnwhy]

DHA looks nice and the price is right. A contender for sure though i'm yet to listen to demo's.

Also, how on earth could i forget the SOURCE AUDIO SOUNDBLOX MULTIWAVE PRO?! When i first heard of this thing i was very excited at it's possibilities, but had no practical application for it. But now i do! It's expensive, in the Markbass territory, but does a lot more.

If i can afford it i think the soundblox is the one, or failing that the blowtorch or DHA (if the sounds are right).

[DanOwens]

I've got a DHA VT2 Dual and it has its limitations. Thankfully these have been ironed out in the [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DHA-VT2-Twin-2-channel-tube-O-D-guitar-bass-versions-/310270062840?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item483d8970f8#ht_1730wt_1139"]VT2 Twin[/url] (as far as I can see).

I run mine at the end of a chain for beyond-crazy-dragon-waking-sonic-annihilation.

Dan

[ThomBassmonkey]

Instead of worrying about what pedals have a wet/dry blend, you could find a simple loop pedal that has a blend on it.

[wotnwhy]

The blend thing is only really to keep things simple, not essential as you say but a factor nonetheless.

I think the source audio is the one as some of the other features/sounds would be useful to. But the price (although cheap for what it does) is making my wallet wince..

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='wotnwhy' post='1034550' date='Nov 23 2010, 10:44 PM']The blend thing is only really to keep things simple, not essential as you say but a factor nonetheless[/quote]

I didn't mean to ignore it completely.

Loop pedals let you hook up an FX loop that you can then switch in and out with a footswitch, some of them use blend pots. If you have your distortion pedal set on all the time and the blend on the loop pedal at 50%, when the loop pedal's active then you'll get a 50/50 mix of distortion and dry signal. Assuming the loop only contains the distortion, the switch on the loop pedal would essentially be your distortion switch. It's a simpler solution than carrying around two amps and it really opens up the options in terms of distortion pedals as you don't need to find one that has a blend pot. If you stick an EQ pedal in the loop, it'll also give you more control over what frequencies you want distorted without the extra amp.

Apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, I've had a drink and stuff's a bit fuzzy.

[wotnwhy]

I am aware of the option of a loop pedal and how it would work, but no need to apologize! Always assume ignorance then nothing is left out!

I went through an FX phase several years ago (at the time when i bought a Deep Impact for £75 new), and as much as i loved all the effects i had i eventually got rid of every one of them (including selling the Deep Impact for £75..) as i just became annoyed with all the hassle they brought along with them.

I think if i went down the FX loop road my autistic tendencies would force me to keep things neat and tidy with a pedalboard. And if i had a pedalboard it would have to have a lid. So immediately things have become much more complicated and expensive (going from 1 pedal, 1 more lead and a plug to 2 pedals, 2 powers, patch leads, pedal board). The reason i have got this far without a pedal is because i wanted to avoid excactly that (the pedalboard road), so this is why '1 pedal that does it all' is important.


"It's a simpler solution than carrying around two amps"
Too true, i would take the fx loop pedal over the 2 rig option every time. ....except for the time i have a bass tech and road crew

[Jimelliottbassist]

tech 21 compdistort pedal. There fantastic!

[quote name='wotnwhy' post='1034766' date='Nov 24 2010, 09:31 AM']I am aware of the option of a loop pedal and how it would work, but no need to apologize! Always assume ignorance then nothing is left out!

I went through an FX phase several years ago (at the time when i bought a Deep Impact for £75 new), and as much as i loved all the effects i had i eventually got rid of every one of them (including selling the Deep Impact for £75..) as i just became annoyed with all the hassle they brought along with them.

I think if i went down the FX loop road my autistic tendencies would force me to keep things neat and tidy with a pedalboard. And if i had a pedalboard it would have to have a lid. So immediately things have become much more complicated and expensive (going from 1 pedal, 1 more lead and a plug to 2 pedals, 2 powers, patch leads, pedal board). The reason i have got this far without a pedal is because i wanted to avoid excactly that (the pedalboard road), so this is why '1 pedal that does it all' is important.


"It's a simpler solution than carrying around two amps"
Too true, i would take the fx loop pedal over the 2 rig option every time. ....except for the time i have a bass tech and road crew [/quote]

[Dood]

[quote name='wotnwhy' post='1033807' date='Nov 23 2010, 12:55 PM']The Turbo Rat has no blend of wet and dry signals, so thats out.



Any other ideas?[/quote]

If you can find one, the Rat Juggernaut was a version of the Rat with a dry mix for bass players - if you like that kinda distortion.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='dood' post='1039492' date='Nov 28 2010, 01:12 AM']If you can find one, the Rat Juggernaut was a version of the Rat with a dry mix for bass players - if you like that kinda distortion.[/quote]

I had one and it totally sucked and didn't really sound like the good parts of a Rat + blend. Did end up using the FX loop as my first clean blend though.

I set up my dual rig at practice on Friday (cause was jamming with a new guitarist who brought his own rig! Shame he couldn't play anything useful) and it was lovely, even the drummer noticed how nice the definition was in adition to gut rumbling lows.

[Stan_da_man]

Nobels ODR-1 or (what I'm using atm) Modtone Dyno Drive.

[nbtone]

If you shop Beverly Hills [url="http://www.readyshare.com/Users/clatshaw@newbasstoneinc-com/UploadMails/Classic_Two_View_Ride11_15_2010_85758_PM.htm"]here[/url] is a suggestion.

[Wud]

Have a look at the Pork Loin in the Way Huge section on the Dunlop website.