BAD DESIGNS ok lets have em,

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1033893' date='Nov 23 2010, 02:01 PM']Are we just old fuddy duddies set in our ways ???[/quote]
I am - I like my instruments to be all-old style like my mustang. Unless they are all-new like my NS-Design CR5M

[Spoombung]

[quote name='zero9' post='1033863' date='Nov 23 2010, 01:41 PM']The double bass. It's too bulky, doesn't stay in tune and needs to be amplified.[/quote]


+1

[Earbrass]

[quote name='zero9' post='1033863' date='Nov 23 2010, 01:41 PM']The double bass. It's too bulky, doesn't stay in tune and needs to be amplified.[/quote]

+1. Great played arco in the massed ranks of a string section, but seriously lacking as a rhythm section instrument when played pizzicato and alone.

[Prime_BASS]

Jazz bass "bell" control plates. Never fit flush with the pickguard, despite most certainly being machine cut.

The thing with Fender trying to "modernise"

There are modern innovations, then there is trying to be cool. During the 80's you find the HM bass, nothing really modern about it, the third pickups adds not a lot to the sound, and the finish was dread full, and power jazz bass' too much "trying hard" without really trying. The carbon layer IMO made a difference to the sound and structural integrity to the neck, but the active tone thing was rather pointless.

The thing nowadays is that "vintage" is a cool/modern thing.

Some modern things I do like, on a traditional design. Like control cavities on the back so the front looks more clearer.
The clover jazz copy with the concave front contour looks pretty cool.

[simon1964]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1033828' date='Nov 23 2010, 01:14 PM']They forgot to take out the 'massively overpriced' quirk,[/quote]

Quirk or not, they have a waiting list, so they must be doing something right!

[stingrayPete1977]

Do they have a waiting list just for special orders though? There are plenty hanging around in a lot of shops I have been into.

[Delberthot]

The 4004 was an imrpoved version of the 4003, except it has humbuckers, but it doesn't look like a 4003 as it has no scratchplate, sharkfin inlays or binding.

Now the binding I can live without as I prefer the 4003S anyway, plus it has dots instead of those inlays so it probably comes down to the scratchplate.

[icastle]

[quote name='zero9' post='1033863' date='Nov 23 2010, 01:41 PM']The double bass. It's too bulky, doesn't stay in tune and needs to be amplified.[/quote]

Good job nobody thought about designing a piano then....

[simon1964]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1034225' date='Nov 23 2010, 07:00 PM']Do they have a waiting list just for special orders though? There are plenty hanging around in a lot of shops I have been into.[/quote]

I think any new Rics in stock are likely to have been ordered by the retailer 6 - 12 months ago. Obviously, you can find shops with them in stock, although they're as rare as hens teeth in the East Midlands!

I'm not defending Rics as a good design. The bridge adjustment is hopeless, and the bridge pickup cover simply gets in the way. My point was that when Ric put a decent bridge on the 4004 and did away with the bridge pickup cover it was actually less popular!

[lowdown]

[quote name='zero9' post='1033863' date='Nov 23 2010, 01:41 PM']The double bass. It's too bulky, the ear challenged player doesn't stay in tune, and needs to be amplified.[/quote]


Fixed.



Garry

[lowdown]

[quote name='Earbrass' post='1034072' date='Nov 23 2010, 04:22 PM']+1. Great played arco in the massed ranks of a string section, but seriously lacking as a rhythm section instrument when played pizzicato and alone.[/quote]

Have you let Stanley Clarke know?




Garry

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='simon1964' post='1034119' date='Nov 23 2010, 05:21 PM']Quirk or not, they have a waiting list, so they must be doing something right![/quote]

Not being able to make enough to keep up with demand is another design flaw I didn't think of.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1035125' date='Nov 24 2010, 02:29 PM']Not being able to make enough to keep up with demand is another design flaw I didn't think of.[/quote]
Good one man

[simon1964]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1035125' date='Nov 24 2010, 02:29 PM']Not being able to make enough to keep up with demand is another design flaw I didn't think of.[/quote]

Even if you end up being able to sell them at a massive premium?!

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='simon1964' post='1035219' date='Nov 24 2010, 04:04 PM']Even if you end up being able to sell them at a massive premium?![/quote]

Marketing isn't good design. In fact, they are often directly at odds with each other.

[simon1964]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1035352' date='Nov 24 2010, 05:45 PM']Marketing isn't good design. In fact, they are often directly at odds with each other.[/quote]

I agree. I was just responding to someone's suggestion that not making enough was a design flaw

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='simon1964' post='1035361' date='Nov 24 2010, 05:50 PM']I agree. I was just responding to someone's suggestion that not making enough was a design flaw [/quote]

Not being able to make enough is a design flaw. Choosing not to make enough is marketing.

[alanbass1]

[quote name='simon1964' post='1033780' date='Nov 23 2010, 12:34 PM']Thing is with Rickenbacker that they have updated their designs to take out the quirks (eg the 4004 bass which has a modern bridge, pickups etc) but then nobody buys them![/quote]

Good point. I actually love my 4001's because they have some quirky and not too clever design features. No harm in a little individuality.......

[simon1964]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1035367' date='Nov 24 2010, 05:54 PM']Not being able to make enough is a design flaw. Choosing not to make enough is marketing.[/quote]

Agree with that too. Rightly or wrongly Rickenbacker have made a consious decision not to have cheaper versions of their basses mass produced in the Far East. They're pretty much in a minority of one in doing that amongst major producers - Fender, Gibson, Warwick, G&L, ESP, PRS, Musicman etc all have cheap Far Eastern brands. I'm not knocking those - I own some of them! But Ric's decision to limit production must surely be a consious marketing decision to keep the perceived exclusivity of the product (rather than a design flaw!).

I suspect they could produce thousands of cheaper "Ric Lites" in the Far East if they chose to do so. Presumeably they don't because they want to keep the exclusivity (and margain) on their US stuff.

But as I said several posts ago, I'm not defending Rics as a design. I love them, but I readily accept the bridge, pickups, and lack of countours are as old fashioned and flawed as a Morgan Roadster.

Edited November 24, 2010 by simon1964

[TommyK]

[quote name='lowdown' post='1034862' date='Nov 24 2010, 10:58 AM']Have you let Stanley Clarke know?




Garry[/quote]

Errrr.....Wow!

I know absolutely nowt about the Double Bass but that is Brilliant!! Thanks for sharing.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='simon1964' post='1035385' date='Nov 24 2010, 06:05 PM']But as I said several posts ago, I'm not defending Rics as a design. I love them, but I readily accept the bridge, pickups, and lack of countours are as old fashioned and flawed as a Morgan Roadster.[/quote]

Do you say that because you know Dad makes parts for Morgans? I think the updated Morgan is doing ok though.

[simon1964]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1035658' date='Nov 24 2010, 09:46 PM']Do you say that because you know Dad makes parts for Morgans? I think the updated Morgan is doing ok though.[/quote]

LOL - no, I was just using Morgan as an example of a company that produces a fantastic, cool, desirable product which is rooted in what many would say was an old fashioned design. Just like Rickenbacker IMO!

[MoonBassAlpha]

I know we're all used to it as it is so familiar, but the scratch plate on Rics really irks me - It's ugly utilitarian shape and cheap (looking) plastic. The knobs they use are amongst my least favourite too.
I think the rest of it looks super cool though, but I've never played one. People get nice sounds out of them too.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' post='1035713' date='Nov 24 2010, 10:39 PM']I know we're all used to it as it is so familiar, but the scratch plate on Rics really irks me - It's ugly utilitarian shape and cheap (looking) plastic. The knobs they use are amongst my least favourite too.
I think the rest of it looks super cool though, but I've never played one. People get nice sounds out of them too.[/quote]

It is also a major weak point, they break round the pickup and the control cavity. I'm having some made out of steel, should fix that issue.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='zero9' post='1033863' date='Nov 23 2010, 01:41 PM']The double bass. It's too bulky, doesn't stay in tune and needs to be amplified.[/quote]


Yeah, they may have been good back in the day but they're just pointless now, and they sound crap.