BAD DESIGNS ok lets have em,

[BassBod]

I'll nominate the Warwick Thumb - such a beautiful looking design, and great woodworking...compromised by heavy weight, peculiar ergonomics and floor diving headstock. Unless you wear it under your chin. Should have been headless. I have seen one, nailed to the wall in a German club, like a sacrificial offering. But it wasn't built as a headless.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='BassBod' post='1035956' date='Nov 25 2010, 09:50 AM']I'll nominate the Warwick Thumb - such a beautiful looking design, and great woodworking...compromised by heavy weight, peculiar ergonomics and floor diving headstock. Unless you wear it under your chin. Should have been headless. I have seen one, nailed to the wall in a German club, like a sacrificial offering. But it wasn't built as a headless.[/quote]

I never wore mine under my chin, although I did wear it relatively high. I have never had any problems with balance or weight though, it was very comfortable to play for long periods. Compared to some basses that don't carry their weight well (like a P bass or a Thunderbird) it felt like a feather!

[cocco]

The entire Gibson bass range. All sound great. I have a grabber that just sounds awesome to me. But. And it's a big but every last one is ridiculously neck heavy.

[Chris2112]

I'll nominate the entire Gibson range just for sounding awful. I can't even think of another bass manufacturer that sounds as consistently awful as Gibson. Even Fender get it ridiculously right sometimes (Fender Urge basses, Zone bass etc etc).

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1036186' date='Nov 25 2010, 12:16 PM']I never wore mine under my chin, although I did wear it relatively high. I have never had any problems with balance or weight though, it was very comfortable to play for long periods. Compared to some basses that don't carry their weight well (like a P bass or a Thunderbird) it felt like a feather![/quote]

+1 on this, I have a Thumb 5 and it has no neck dive (with a proper strap) and is comfy to play for long periods. I wear mine roughly waist height, lower than it'd be if I was sitting.

Ashdown amps in general, I find terrible. They're insanely popular not because they're good but because the market is totally washed out with them. Almost every bass shop has some Ashdown gear available, even Fenders aren't as common. They're also very cheap. Unfortunately they're not the most reliable amps and I can't even get a usable tone out of them. All IMO, IME etc.

[Chris2112]

I think you'd be quite impressed with my Ashdown MK 500 combo. I used to have an Electric Blue combo that was useable but not spectacular. However, I bought the MK500 after seeing all the great reviews and also knowing that it was Mark King's signature amp.

I'm very impressed with it. It's made in England for a start, to very exacting standards. I paid £500 for it used as an ex demo model, and aside from a small scratch on the badge it's in mint condition. It reminds me of the early Trace Elliot stuff; it feels and sounds suitably boutique and a real step ahead. The tone also reminds me of classic Trace Elliot stuff, bright and clear but with character and depth. You can tell Ashdown pulled out all the stops and I've a feeling that in years to come these will be sought after a "classics" of the Ashdown range. As per my offer of trying my ACG, if you're ever up North you can try my ACG through my Ashdown MK500 combo - I'm sure you'll be suitably impressed!

[ThomBassmonkey]

Thanks mate! I'll keep that in mind hehe. My experience of Ashdowns is based on the various Electric Blues and MAGs of the world, I've always found either the bass is up and they sound muddy, or you have to cut the bass frequencies right out before you get any kind of definition. If I ever run across a MK in my path I'll give it a fair listen though.

[Chris2112]

The Electric blue was one of the first proper combos I had, back when they were brand new. With my Ibanez BTB405QM, I had no trouble getting a range of pleasing tones although looking back they wouldn't cut it for me now. The MAG series I find less inspiring though, because they cost a bit of money and seem a bit lacklustre. It's fair to say I'm not a huge Ashdown fan in general, I really like the Mark King stuff though because it's so utterly different to the rest of the stuff in their range.

I like the fact that other fanboys will recognise it as a Mark King signature amp, but I also view it was an extremely capable and refined solid state amp which is excellent for studio use.

[neepheid]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1037167' date='Nov 25 2010, 11:51 PM']I'll nominate the entire Gibson range just for sounding awful. I can't even think of another bass manufacturer that sounds as consistently awful as Gibson. Even Fender get it ridiculously right sometimes (Fender Urge basses, Zone bass etc etc).[/quote]

Played them all, have you?

[Ou7shined]

Bolting the jack socket to a thin bit of floating plastic on Precisions.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='simon1964' post='1035669' date='Nov 24 2010, 09:51 PM']LOL - no, I was just using Morgan as an example of a company that produces a fantastic, cool, desirable product which is rooted in what many would say was an old fashioned design. Just like Rickenbacker IMO![/quote]
Does anyone remember that old television programme "Trouble Shooter" with John Harvey-Jones, the big-shot business guru (a sort of Alan Sugar figure), who would go into 'failing' companies, study them and then make all sorts of recommendations for change?

He did a programme on Morgan and was basically appalled at how they did everything, from design to manufacture and marketing. He made all sorts of (fairly obvious) recommendations to update the company with the latest management thinking which would have turned them into just another apecialist car maker.

The board (family-owned I believe) were polite but basically rejected all his advice, the gist of their response being that their approach to things, old-fashioned as they were, was actually one of Morgan's biggest assets.

Of course, we can't be sure that Morgan wouldn't have become the next BMW if they had followed the guru's advice ( ), but we do know that they have survived against all the dire predictions from the 'experts'.

A lot of "bad design" is like that. Once it becomes iconic, the design flaws simply melt away and become accepted as 'character'. Funny old world.

Edited November 26, 2010 by flyfisher

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1037746' date='Nov 26 2010, 01:27 PM']Of course, we can't be sure that Morgan wouldn't have become the next BMW if they had followed the guru's advice ( ), but we do know that they have survived against all the dire predictions from the 'experts'.[/quote]

The next Morgan they made has a BMW engine, and upset some BMW engineers with the awesome crash properties of its revolutionary body frame material (wood).



Edit, I think I should also mention that someone custom ordered one with a yellow bonnet and red wings, then never paid in full, leaving them with Noddy's car sat in the showroom until they gave in and had it resprayed.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Mr. Foxen

[Chris2112]

[quote name='neepheid' post='1037440' date='Nov 26 2010, 09:32 AM']Played them all, have you?[/quote]

Erm, lets see...

Les pauls, Thunderbirds, EB series, RD, Grabber, Ripper, Explorer...I guess I've about played them all, and they've always sounded absolutely dreadful!

[neepheid]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1037897' date='Nov 26 2010, 03:46 PM']Erm, lets see...

Les pauls, Thunderbirds, EB series, RD, Grabber, Ripper, Explorer...I guess I've about played them all, and they've always sounded absolutely dreadful![/quote]

That's a fair amount of experience. Apologies for the pedantry, but I get tired of all the Gibson bashing that goes on, some of it unfounded. I wanted to know what grounding in fact your opinion had.

I find it interesting that both the Gibsons I own are missing from that list. Maybe I picked the good 'uns

[icastle]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1037876' date='Nov 26 2010, 03:27 PM']Is the New morgan still wooden framed??? i thought they went All Aluminium with the Aero 8

I do laugh at those who think the wooden frame is the chassis and think all the suspension and brakes are bolted to a lump of Ash [/quote]

Idiots
It's MDF isn't it?

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1037897' date='Nov 26 2010, 03:46 PM']Erm, lets see...

Les pauls, Thunderbirds, EB series, RD, Grabber, Ripper, Explorer...I guess I've about played them all, and they've always sounded absolutely dreadful![/quote]

+1 sort of, Uncomfortable and lacking in variety of tones for sure (Thats not bashing its fact and the reason it appears as bashing because it comes up so often) but for certain things that single tone is awesome! KOL without the T-Bird sound would just be all kinds of wrong. Im sure Gibbo fans can compile a list of many many more.

Edited November 26, 2010 by stingrayPete1977

[Chris2112]

[quote name='neepheid' post='1037931' date='Nov 26 2010, 04:18 PM']That's a fair amount of experience. Apologies for the pedantry, but I get tired of all the Gibson bashing that goes on, some of it unfounded. I wanted to know what grounding in fact your opinion had.[/quote]


If I had to choose, I'd go with the RD Artist. I was fortune to be able to try a one with the original MOOG electronics. It was quite simply head and shoulders above any other Gibson bass I've tried. Sadly, it suffered from the usual Gibson issues of weight and lacklustre playability.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1037876' date='Nov 26 2010, 03:27 PM']Is the New morgan still wooden framed??? i thought they went All Aluminium with the Aero 8

I do laugh at those who think the wooden frame is the chassis and think all the suspension and brakes are bolted to a lump of Ash [/quote]

Yeah, laminated ash. My Dad, being the main manufacturer of aftermarket Morgan chassis, got really angry with a guy that insisted his car had a wooden chassis.

The RD has a 36" scale, that makes playing a bit harder whatever the manufacturer (although a top horn would probably help.

[neepheid]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1038480' date='Nov 27 2010, 01:56 AM']The RD has a 36" scale, that makes playing a bit harder whatever the manufacturer (although a top horn would probably help.[/quote]

Is that the 36" scale baby eating version?

[BassBod]

I'd still rather play an EB3 than a W'wick Thumb! Sort of reverse Jack Bruce.......

[Musky]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1037746' date='Nov 26 2010, 01:27 PM']Does anyone remember that old television programme "Trouble Shooter" with John Harvey-Jones, the big-shot business guru (a sort of Alan Sugar figure), who would go into 'failing' companies, study them and then make all sorts of recommendations for change?

He did a programme on Morgan and was basically appalled at how they did everything, from design to manufacture and marketing. He made all sorts of (fairly obvious) recommendations to update the company with the latest management thinking which would have turned them into just another apecialist car maker.

The board (family-owned I believe) were polite but basically rejected all his advice, the gist of their response being that their approach to things, old-fashioned as they were, was actually one of Morgan's biggest assets.

Of course, we can't be sure that Morgan wouldn't have become the next BMW if they had followed the guru's advice ( ), but we do know that they have survived against all the dire predictions from the 'experts'.

A lot of "bad design" is like that. Once it becomes iconic, the design flaws simply melt away and become accepted as 'character'. Funny old world.

[/quote]

Quite strange that I was thinking of Morgan and that programme even before Simon mentioned them. Like you point out, the guys at Morgan just didn't think of themselves as the sort of company that Harvey-Jones wanted to turn them into. It's pretty much the same at Rickenbacker.

I'm no fan of Jon Hall or some of his policies, but it seems to me that keeping Rickenbacker entirely in house rather than opting for off shore production is a result of his families history in the design. He's personally bound up in the brand, and like Morgan doesn't seem to see Rickenbacker as a bulk producer.

And he actually seems to believe that Rickenbacker are purveyors of consistently high quality, top flight instruments!

[icastle]

[quote name='Musky' post='1038695' date='Nov 27 2010, 11:59 AM']Quite strange that I was thinking of Morgan and that programme even before Simon mentioned them. Like you point out, the guys at Morgan just didn't think of themselves as the sort of company that Harvey-Jones wanted to turn them into. It's pretty much the same at Rickenbacker.

I'm no fan of Jon Hall or some of his policies, but it seems to me that keeping Rickenbacker entirely in house rather than opting for off shore production is a result of his families history in the design. He's personally bound up in the brand, and like Morgan doesn't seem to see Rickenbacker as a bulk producer.

And he actually seems to believe that Rickenbacker are purveyors of consistently high quality, top flight instruments! [/quote]

Any business that stays internalised (local manufacture and support) and doesn't feel the need to expand is seen as "odd" becasue it doesn't match the standard that most businesses tend to use to measure their success.
Nothing wrong with that in itself, but it does tend to make for a situation where products have a high price within the market they are, supposedly, competing in and products do seem to become rather stale.

Having never owned a Ric I couldn't really comment on their quality with any authority, but the design just doesn't appeal to me.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='Musky' post='1038695' date='Nov 27 2010, 11:59 AM']And he actually seems to believe that Rickenbacker are purveyors of consistently high quality, top flight instruments! [/quote]


Ignorance is bliss, eh? I don't suppose he gets a chance to try much else, otherwise the Ric design would have surely improved!

[Rich]

Rackmount amplifiers with the power switch on the BACK. Thus meaning that you've got to go shoving your arm into the back of your rackcase like Herriot up a cow in order to get the thing powered up.

[icastle]

[quote name='Rich' post='1041939' date='Nov 30 2010, 08:02 AM']Rackmount amplifiers with the power switch on the BACK. Thus meaning that you've got to go shoving your arm into the back of your rackcase like Herriot up a cow in order to get the thing powered up.[/quote]

+1 to that !