Buying selling for profit..

[bassatnight]

Touchy ground this, I too have sold on here for a small profit and also lost on selling.

I agree with the sentiments of this being a community of brothers but where do you draw the line?

Personally I if am after a particular bass and it came up on here at whatever cost I would buy it, I wouldn't think about what did the seller pay for it? is he making a profit?
I would just think this is what I am after and I am willing to pay what the seller asks.

Ok try this scenario; I am given a US Fender P for free and decide to sell it on here for £500 does that make me a crook?

[Clarky]

I have pages and pages of feedback from buying and selling over two and a half years and I can say for sure I have only made a profit on a trade once in all that time - and even that profit was a paper profit only - would have been a loss when I add in what I had spent on the bass on setup, new bridge saddles, new strings etc. Like b5 I think of this as a community not eBay. Clearly not everyone agrees with me but we are all entitled to our own opinions.

[flyfisher]

I'm not very good at selling stuff (any stuff) but fortunately my other half is very understanding about all the clutter around the house.

I've bought a fair bit of stuff on here and it was all fairly priced as far as I was concerned. I don't know or really care if any of the sellers made a profit.

[bubinga5]

[quote name='Beedster' post='1037033' date='Nov 25 2010, 10:07 PM']Hope I didn't cause offence dude

C[/quote]Oh Chris not at all. its no big deal...all good

[Doctor J]

Have a look at the price of, say, Stingrays on this very forum. There is quite a difference between some of the asking prices. Should we set a guidline price for everything, just so we're all cool? A buyer will buy at a price they're happy with, a seller will sell at a price they're happy with. I just don't see the issue. The community can't act as the Cool Police, making sure everyone is cool with each other. Besides, who here hasn't been lowballed? Is there anyone who doesn't buffer up the price a little to take into account the inevitable offers which accompany practically every deal?

Of the instruments I've sold here, there wasn't a single time I didn't get either lowball cash offers or absurd trade offers for things which were sometimes less than half the value of what I was selling. I'm a grown up, I can make my own decisions. Surely everyone else is too? The community spirit is a great thing here, don't get me wrong, but I think it's wrong to police the commercial threads, maybe I think something you're selling is overpriced and vice-versa. It'll destroy that aspect of the forum.

I tell you what, if we get to shoot the lowballers, I'll agree to the shooting of the profiteers

Edited November 25, 2010 by Doctor J

[Beedster]

I really didn't want to get drawn into this, but......

There's a logical side to this and an emotional side to it.

Logically, you sell it, it's no longer your business. You sold it for a reason so the buyer has done you a favour by buying it, no matter how you try to justify otherwise.

Emotionally it's a very different thing. One of my first deals on here was with Dr Dave. He offered me a great deal on a Status 5 (I know I know). He'd spent a lot of time on rebuilding a pretty old instrument, but he offered it for a steal given he didn't think it justified a decent price given the work had been done by him and not a pro. I'd never owned one so I went for it. Within about 10 minutes there were several posts on the thread saying "damn, that was my perfect bass and bloody Beedster was too quick" etc etc. Anyway, I didn't like it, PM'd the guy who had replied to Dave's original thread about 2 seconds after me, and he bought it at the same price. The point of the story is that I felt good about it, the buyer felt good about it and Dave felt good about the fact that his generosity and my good fortune had been maintained down the line so to speak.

I think that's the key, and I think this is what PTP was hinting at in the For Sale thread that led to this one; there used to be a feelgood factor to the majority of transactions on BC, and I would agree with PTP that this is increasingly not the case. This is a symptom of the times and is true of transactions on ebay, of communications on Facebook etc, and these are perhaps the growing pains of the internet. However, whilst there are no rights and wrongs, by which I mean that I don't judge anyone who makes a profit, I wish there were more guys like Dr Dave, who by being a true gent, passes that expectation on to others, and by doing so, helps maintain a great sense of community.

I've been ripped off by four BC members, that is I lost my money completely when good didn't arrive or were damaged, and I've had transactions which left a bad taste with about 10 or so. All but one of these was in the last 18 months. The forum has always relied on trust, and I think that trust is increasingly eroded by a larger membership and by a significant number of members who are only here to sell instruments.

So in short, I prefer the old code, but accept that it's largely gone.

C

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Beedster' post='1037069' date='Nov 25 2010, 10:26 PM']I've been ripped off by four BC members, that is I lost my money completely when good didn't arrive or were damaged, and I've had transactions which left a bad taste with about 10 or so. All but one of these was in the last 18 months.[/quote]

I am genuinely appalled to hear that.

I don't trade as actively as either Beedster or Clarky, but I like to keep busy ( ) and I'm still in the happy position of having only good deals (whether as buyer or seller) under my belt. Maybe I've just been lucky.

I don't believe that the old ethos is simply 'gone', just that it's worth thinking about who it is that you're trading with. It's absolutely no accident that I deal most frequently with people who I feel I "know" to some extent.

As to the whole "morality of profit" thing, we had this discussion at length in another topic just a couple of months ago. This is like [i]deja vu[/i].

All over again.

Why do so many people feel that they are in a position to comment on, and even to criticise, the values of others?

My values are my own. If you agree with them, why that's wonderful! And if you disagree with them, why that's wonderful, too!

I routinely choose to sell basses at the same price, or for less than, I originally bought them. So what? Does that make me a good person? If only life was really that simple ...

My reasons, like my values, are my own. Get over it.

[P-T-P]

I have no problem with someone selling something at a profit. I have no problem with someone asking a price that's maybe a bit hopeful given the market in general, even if when advised that person sticks to their guns.

Two things annoy me in the context of the for sale section on this site:

1. People trying to sell stuff at comically inflated prices, persistently bumping and then acting as though they're being ever so generous when they knock £50 off the asking price, bringing that down to just £800 more than would be reasonable - which there's been an awful lot of lately.

It clutters up the board, wastes everyone's time (excepting those who feel the need to have a gushing, "Ooo that's pretty" type post) and makes it harder for people actually living in the real world and looking to just sell one bass in order to buy another or 'cause they need to raise a little cash.

That's what the FS sections used to be about - likeminded (mostly) individuals moving their gear on so they could try other things without having to pay eBay fees, deal with dodgy sellers etc.

2. People selling something which could have been bought by anyone else here because it was on eBay or in some cases even on here just a few days/weeks ago and slapping a couple of hundred quid or more onto to the original asking price. Especially when the original price was about fair to begin with.

It contributes nothing to the community and in fact only takes away, for personal gain no less. It clogs the boards up as well. I also just find it really insulting to be honest - I mean, do you think no one would notice?

[jezzaboy]

I would never buy something on here and then put it up for sale again on here for more dosh. It`s bad crack. I would ask for the same dough or take a small hit on it. I`m also crap at selling things!

As Beedster says, as the membership grows, the potential for "dodgy dealings" increases. I have been burned this year on here but I am more careful now with who I would do business with.

Call me an old hippy but what goes round, come`s around, karma and all that sh*t.



Jez

[LukeFRC]

I think I joined the forum to sell one bass pedal... and stayed for a lot longer as I felt it rude not to stick around and join in the discussion.

I have a strict, maybe more the old school, attitude.

In the sales section you will find some very good deals. People sell on here cheaper than other places. (i'll sell my amp (or try too) for far less than I would take outside basschat, I don't mind that loss if its someone in the comunity)
People will be nicer and chat more and so on.
[u]
It would be wrong to then abuse that for personal profit. [/u]

there are a number of problems...inflation

and the price of basses goes up. I bought a warwick stramer stage one for 600 off warwickhunt, when I came to sell it later obviously the market price wasnt that low still. (i think i offered to split the extra profit with him, he declined- a gentleman)

Or another problem is the valenti I bought.... someone before me had needed to sell it quick and gone down in price way too low. I bought and sold at the same price. about 2-300 quid less than other valenti's on the market... does one act of kindness then hurt the market price for others years later?
(and there is a bit of us that rates how good and desirable a bass is by how much it costs... )


I have sold a bass I bought on here for more on gumtree, I have given stuff away, both on here and off of here, I have bought stuff via "donate to basschat and i'll send it to you" and I have agreed a price and then told the guy i'm selling to to give it to charity.
But if I bought from someone on here I wouldn't sell for profit, not unless it hd been years or they were ok with it.

[stingrayPete1977]

The other problem is that different members have strengths and weaknesses on a particular make/model so the aforementioned Stingray to some its like "well thats stupid its £1200 and there is one identicle for £650 two threads below". To others its "oooh thats a good price for a LE or a pre EB" etc. I cant tell one Fender CS from a Tribute to a MIA Deluxe etc and would not comment on there asking price as I dont feel qualified on them, Others do and often turn over a scammer newbie looking for a quick buck.

[Johngh]

I've bought and sold a fair amount of basses on here and never sold for profit. I might stick £20 or £30 on top of the price I originally bought a bass for but only to cover P&P or diesel money if I deliver in person, but that's as far as it goes. And I normally make it clear in my thread that the price includes P&P.

A lot of people join BC to flog basses or gear, and out of that a fair amount of them sick around and become valued members.
Personally I see the for sale sections as being there to be used by the members of the forum, not dealers. That's just my own personal opinion though. Let's face it, folk on here are not mugs, and can smell a dodgy bass a mile off.

However, if you feel a bass is over priced it's better to take it up with the seller via PM

[LukeFRC]

i am weary of anyone who has stuff however nice and however good the price who only posts in the sales forums

[Mr. Foxen]

Best thing to do if you don't like people flipping stuff on BC for profit is to leave the price in your sold thread, and just mark the title as sold. That way it is easy to gauge the going rate on BC for particular items.

[Beedster]

[quote name='Johngh' post='1037104' date='Nov 25 2010, 10:56 PM']Let's face it, folk on here are not mugs, and can smell a dodgy bass a mile off.[/quote]

No, that's not true, I often get PMs from guys who clearly know nothing about the bass in question (usually a Precision) asking for my opinion on a bass in the FS section. You'd be amazed just how little some members know. This is why i get arsey when mods tell us off when we question a seller re provenance etc, If the bass is what the seller says it is, why is there a problem? If not, then the question was justified. There have been a few occasions recently when mods have intervened in totally legitimate questioning (the great 'Fender Custom Shop Jaco Relic' fiasco being a good example), and I think this style of moderation is part of the reason why the forum trust has declined. I'm not having a pop at mods here, seriously, but I do miss the old days when we were able to ask genuine questions without fear of a red card.

C

[Bassassin]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='1036916' date='Nov 25 2010, 08:51 PM']i would never sell a bass for profit anywhere...i just dont think its right..im not a sales man and dont really care for money...[/quote]
A direct question for you - and anyone else who feels like answering it then.

You find a ridiculous, ludicrous bargain - say, an MIJ Precision on Gumtree for £25. Would you feel that, if you decided it wasn't for you, you should sell it on for what you paid, or would you be OK selling it to a BCer for a fair approximation of the going rate? Would any BC members actually expect a bargain like that to be passed on?

I wouldn't buy a bass on here and then attempt to resell it on here for more than I paid - simply put, I feel that would make me look like a c@nt. If I'd done repair or restoration work to significantly improve it from how I got it then I think it would be reasonable to ask a little more, to reflect the time & expense.

That is theoretical (I've never yet resold anything I bought on BC) but I have sold a number of items here that I obtained elsewhere, the prices I've asked here have been less than I would expect on Ebay, but in line with the going rate for similar gear here. I've also ended several Ebay auctions to sell to BC members, at a mutually agreed price - and it's fair to say I have made a profit on most of my sales here.

Jon.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='1037124' date='Nov 25 2010, 11:11 PM']A direct question for you - and anyone else who feels like answering it then.

You find a ridiculous, ludicrous bargain - say, an MIJ Precision on Gumtree for £25. Would you feel that, if you decided it wasn't for you, you should sell it on for what you paid, or would you be OK selling it to a BCer for a fair approximation of the going rate? Would any BC members actually expect a bargain like that to be passed on?

I wouldn't buy a bass on here and then attempt to resell it on here for more than I paid - simply put, I feel that would make me look like a c@nt. If I'd done repair or restoration work to significantly improve it from how I got it then I think it would be reasonable to ask a little more, to reflect the time & expense.

That is theoretical (I've never yet resold anything I bought on BC) but I have sold a number of items here that I obtained elsewhere, the prices I've asked here have been less than I would expect on Ebay, but in line with the going rate for similar gear here. I've also ended several Ebay auctions to sell to BC members, at a mutually agreed price - and it's fair to say I have made a profit on most of my sales here.

Jon.[/quote]

aye, ken but you're a wheelin' dealin' reiht dodgy yin




*he's not really dodgy

[Cat Burrito]

I joined the forum to chat but have bought & sold a fair bit since joining, probably 50/50 as a buyer / seller. I always lose money on gear but usually not a lot and I price to sell. Plus I'm no businessman! We all use the forum for different reasons and I take no issue with people who use the site to sell more than chat. Equally if people do pick up a car boot sale / EBay bargain & make a profit I think this is fine. I just find this more acceptable as an occasional happy accident rather than as a second business.

It's a personal matter for each individual seller but I always donate to the site when I make a sale and think the moderating is very fair. No compulsory fee for listings or sales. I hope most others do the same. I must confess if it doesn't sell I tend not to donate.

My concern is best summed up by an example at work. We can never park in the work car park as it fills up so quickly so the nearby Sainsburys started to let us use their car park. So we could park all day for free and not pay. What happened? You guessed it. A few people started to take the p*** by using it for Saturday shopping and Sainsburys withdrew the offer. Thankfully I think we're generally pretty good here and I'm sure a lot goes on behind the scenes with the mods that we don't see.

[gjones]

I haven't yet bought or sold anything on the BC forum yet but scan the marketplace for basses or amps regularly just in case I see something I may be interested in. I like to think people who join BC are genuine enthusiasts and musicians but when people join and from day one start to offload bass after bass I do get suspicious. Why not have one marketplace for occasional sellers and another one for commercial dealers at least that way everybody's cards are on the table and you know who you're dealing with from day one.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='gjones' post='1037179' date='Nov 26 2010, 12:04 AM']I haven't yet bought or sold anything on the BC forum yet but scan the marketplace for basses or amps regularly just in case I see something I may be interested in. I like to think people who join BC are genuine enthusiasts and musicians but when people join and from day one start to offload bass after bass I do get suspicious. Why not have one marketplace for occasional sellers and another one for commercial dealers at least that way everybody's cards are on the table and you know who you're dealing with from day one.[/quote]

There's the affiliate's forum for commercial dealers.

I've been stung buy someone on here, bought a bass off him that turned out to need serious repairs, which he agreed to contribute towards, then after sending him a copy of the bill I haven't heard anything since and consequentially really struggled to cover the bills (he even lay low for a while, he's recently started posting again and has recently sold something else on here which is worrying, I've sent him another message, but I'm not holding my breath).

[Beedster]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1037183' date='Nov 26 2010, 12:12 AM']There's the affiliate's forum for commercial dealers.

I've been stung buy someone on here, bought a bass off him that turned out to need serious repairs, which he agreed to contribute towards, then after sending him a copy of the bill I haven't heard anything since and consequentially really struggled to cover the bills (he even lay low for a while, he's recently started posting again and has recently sold something else on here which is worrying, I've sent him another message, but I'm not holding my breath).[/quote]

Well I hope you left feedback to alert the rest of us that he might do the same again?

C

[ThomBassmonkey]

He doesn't have a feedback thread, I did post a topic in general a while back when I was trying to get in contact with him, so anyone searching his name should see that. Plus if anyone looks through his for sale threads, in his most recent one he's still bumping up the thread after agreeing to a sale so he can get the money faster, I'd hope that'd be enough warning that he's a bit of a shifty customer (though he did manage to sell the amp in that thread).

[Chris2112]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='1037124' date='Nov 25 2010, 11:11 PM']You find a ridiculous, ludicrous bargain - say, an MIJ Precision on Gumtree for £25. Would you feel that, if you decided it wasn't for you, you should sell it on for what you paid, or would you be OK selling it to a BCer for a fair approximation of the going rate? Would any BC members actually expect a bargain like that to be passed on?[/quote]

I'd like to think if we get a good deal here, we can keep it "in the family", so to speak.

I got hold of my Alembic Epic 5 string for £600 off the boards. I sold it on for the same price, to a buyer who had indicated interest to me early on when I was offering it for trade. I had offers that were higher than the asking price when I sold it, but not monumentally so. Suffice to say, I could have put a little bit of cash back in my pocket, but I didn't. I kept my word to the buyer and sold it for what I paid for it.

Whats a few quid at the end of the day when this forum has given me so many good deals and so many awesome basses I would never buy new? It's all about karma...

[neepheid]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1037191' date='Nov 26 2010, 12:19 AM']He doesn't have a feedback thread[/quote]

Start him up one

[Chris2112]

Yes, I know that we are all "very English" and prone to bouts of good manners, but I feel that forumites abusing the trust and goodwill of others is not on and it should not only be acceptable to name them and make public what they've done, it should also be encouraged. This would in turn lead to a more trustworthy atmosphere on the forum, and hopefully encourage potential scammers like this to either do business to a reasonable standard or not do business at all.

Remember the business with the Warwick Vampyre? I'd hate to see another scam like that (as entertaining as the fiasco was).