Buying selling for profit..

[7string]

I don't agree with people getting a bargain here on BC and then putting it back on BC to make a profit.

I wouldn't do it, but maybe I'm getting old-fashioned and nowadays it's a bit more every-man-for-himself....

[farmer61]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1037112' date='Nov 25 2010, 11:03 PM']Best thing to do if you don't like people flipping stuff on BC for profit is to leave the price in your sold thread, and just mark the title as sold. That way it is easy to gauge the going rate on BC for particular items.[/quote]
Good point! I always like to double wheck what I'm buying /selling against stuff that has sold on here

[cheddatom]

Perhaps a new rule could be to link to the thread you bought your bass off, if you got it from BC. It would also help to track where the basses go! Is that an infringement of a basses right to privacy?

[Machines]

I don't see the point of forcing a seller to do this. People can easily do a search if they so wish.

[Delberthot]

Being a salesman in a previous life I am very good at bumming something up to the max to get the best possible price for it

If you buy new then you're very rarely going to get anywhere near what you paid for it if you then sell it on again. Only a couple of times has that happened to me.

I am a very shrewd buyer and do extensive homework before I buy anything but I am also a gear whore so something that I spent maybe a week researching to find the best price could be back up for sale the very same day that I receive it purely because it does nothing for me.

Like Machines, my entire setup has set me back about £300 including brand new amp, rack, cab, kitchen and bathroom purely from buying something cheap and selling it for more. That's right, kitchen & bathroom

its up to the individual what they buy and sell stuff for but at the end of the day when you no longer own it its no longer of any concern to you. I've sold a load of stuff for way over what i paid for it and seen stuff that I have sold for more than I paid for it but its no longer mine so I'm not bothered. I've never taken the mickey, just sold it for what I thought it was worth.

If I see something very cheap and I want it then I will buy it as I know that I can make money on it if I don't like it. I used to buy stuff on Ebay that was stupidly cheap just to sell at a profit but those days are long gone when you used to see Ricks for £600, JV Squiers for <£200 and Stingray 5s for £550

I'm not hurting anyone & I'm not being nasty

Edited November 26, 2010 by Delberthot

[Gust0o]

I think it's none of the community's business, unless it's being done in an exploitative or insensitive manner. This notion of a "community of musicians" works, but only to an extent - and, as in so many examples, attempting to mix morality and business (on however limited a basis) only produces a muddle.

My thoughts, such as they are, run as follows.

First, our community. Yes, we are such in our discourse - our shared enjoyment of the instrument, and all that attaches to it. That is accepted. But this community is running what it defines as a 'marketplace' - the hint being in the name, that it is a market. Markets fluctuate, as do notions of value, and it should not be possible to realise a profit on that basis. It is a superb commendation of this community that so many people hold it in such regard, and find such personal attachment to it; however, in that emotional ownership, they should not assume that their personal standards should apply to all.

I would refer the OP to this point. You may not like the ability to realise a profit within the marketplace, but it should not be assumed that that is the normal course of affairs. It might be laudable to see like-minded individuals favouring each other in their dealings, but it need not be assumed to be the norm - that's a very personal value judgement, and the freedom of the current system can see individuals elect to follow it or not, as is their wish.

Secondly, we are not locked into a cycle of dimishing returns, and value is a subjective agreement between buyer and seller. We should accept that it may well be different for different people, even when considering the same saleable item - what was cheap one day, need not be tomorrow.

Thirdly, whilst it can be disappointing to see a previously cherished instrument back on sale, I do wonder if a large measure of the resentment to making a profit is some form of sellers remorse - in perhaps letting the instrument go in the first place, or in the original seller not realising additional value in the original transaction. I suspect some soul searching amongst complainants will be required to answer that.

Once an instrument has been sold, the pragmatic reality is that you are no longer the master of it - whether it is loved and cherished; sold for profit; or carved up for modification. If you are likely to have qualms, then you have the choice to not sell.

What, perhaps, might stand us in good stead is to define what is acceptable - and I think that should include selling for profit - but also to define what is unacceptable, in much the same manner that other markets have regulation. I fully agree with the previous sentiments that an item is only worth as much as someone will pay, but gross or exploitative listings could be positively discouraged. That might include a realistic definition of "profiteering", which I feel implies a much more cynical will that simply making a limited margin over a limited number of transactions.

[Mog]

I've seen lots of gear purchased here and shipped across to Ireland pop up on adverts.ie a few days later for prices which are greatly inflated. Common practice IME.

[purpleblob]

For my 2p's worth I have nothing but respect for those not wishing to make a profit from the sale of something they've purchased via this site and whilst I think the OP's view is maybe how things should be in a community such as this, the truth is it's really upto the person who owns the goods what they want to sell it for and it's upto the buyer to make a decision on whether that's a fair price to pay or not.

The area I would have reservations about people making a profit would be if somebody had offered something for free and it then appeared for sale, but there's really nothing one can do about this (not that I'm saying I've seen this happen).

Whilst we're on the subject of buying and selling though. I also find it a little sad when people have sold something on here and the price disappears from the "for sale" ad. it's always useful seeing the price for comparison if a similar instrument came up for sale - just as a guide.

[TommyK]

[quote name='purpleblob' post='1037964' date='Nov 26 2010, 04:43 PM']Whilst we're on the subject of buying and selling though. I also find it a little sad when people have sold something on here and the price disappears from the "for sale" ad. it's always useful seeing the price for comparison if a similar instrument came up for sale - just as a guide.[/quote]

+1 to this. Why do people do it? I just can't see the point.

[purpleblob]

[quote name='TommyK' post='1037968' date='Nov 26 2010, 04:48 PM']+1 to this. Why do people do it? I just can't see the point.[/quote]

Maybe somebody who's removed the price can say for sure, but the conspiracy theorist in me wonders whether the seller has been asked to remove the price so if the item appears at a higher price later (here or elsewhere) people don't have that price point to compare against. But maybe I'm just a little cynical

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1037330' date='Nov 26 2010, 07:36 AM']Another thing to consider maybe, when someone is selling something ridiculously low on here, does anyone point out that the market value is much higher, so the seller should maybe raise the price?[/quote]

I did this very early on in my basschat membership and got lots of grief and made out to be some kind of vintage guitar shop trolling the forums bumping the prices up, I wasnt, I was just trying to be helpful! (The same as the guy filling his brand new turbo diesel vauxhall up with unleaded,When I politely pointed it out he told me to "f*** off!" I did and passed him and gave a toot and a wave a quarter of a mile up the road!) Thankfully I now get on well with most of those members that were involved at the time as I have hung around but many others would not of and just tossed it off as a crap clicky forum.

[zero9]

It can be difficult to define 'profit' when it involves inflation, travelling / shipping costs and time etc.

If I bought a P-bass in the 80's for £200 and sold it today at £1200, would I be making a profit? And if so, would I be ripping off the seller in the process? It's hard to regulate a marketplace and if someone is taking the p*ss on here, they usually get caught with their pants down...

[bubinga5]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1037330' date='Nov 26 2010, 07:36 AM']Whilst Basschat is a kindof community, where we should all hopefully treat each other with respect, I always look at items I`m buying in this way:

Is it worth the asking price to me? if yes, I really don`t care how much the seller paid for it - that`s really not of consequence to me as the buyer. If I`d previously seen something go for, say £250, that I wanted, but didn`t get there in time, now being sold for £400, provided the £400 was either a good, or fair price, it`s just my tough luck for not being quick enough when it was £250. That`s life - it`s not always fair.

Another thing to consider maybe, when someone is selling something ridiculously low on here, does anyone point out that the market value is much higher, so the seller should maybe raise the price?[/quote]Yes...

[bubinga5]

[quote name='Beedster' post='1037118' date='Nov 25 2010, 11:08 PM']No, that's not true, I often get PMs from guys who clearly know nothing about the bass in question (usually a Precision) asking for my opinion on a bass in the FS section. You'd be amazed just how little some members know. This is why i get arsey when mods tell us off when we question a seller re provenance etc, If the bass is what the seller says it is, why is there a problem? If not, then the question was justified. There have been a few occasions recently when mods have intervened in totally legitimate questioning (the great 'Fender Custom Shop Jaco Relic' fiasco being a good example), and I think this style of moderation is part of the reason why the forum trust has declined. I'm not having a pop at mods here, seriously, but I do miss the old days when we were able to ask genuine questions without fear of a red card.

C[/quote]
this is very true..ive been asked and ive asked guys including Beedster about stuff for sale...Difficult to know everything hey.. and there is always someone who knows more...thats one aspect of BC i like...

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1037330' date='Nov 26 2010, 07:36 AM']Whilst Basschat is a kindof community, where we should all hopefully treat each other with respect, I always look at items I`m buying in this way:

Is it worth the asking price to me? if yes, I really don`t care how much the seller paid for it - that`s really not of consequence to me as the buyer. If I`d previously seen something go for, say £250, that I wanted, but didn`t get there in time, now being sold for £400, provided the £400 was either a good, or fair price, it`s just my tough luck for not being quick enough when it was £250. That`s life - it`s not always fair.

Another thing to consider maybe, when someone is selling something ridiculously low on here, does anyone point out that the market value is much higher, so the seller should maybe raise the price?[/quote]

I recently tried to sell an immaculate Stingray 4. The cheapest online new retail price was £1095, so I though £750 was fair, considering its condition. At the same time there were two other Stingrays on BC for £600. I ended up selling it to a mate for £650.

Those other Stingrays were way too cheap IMO, but we're in cash-strapped times.

[Truckstop]

Twat

Truckstop

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1037863' date='Nov 26 2010, 03:18 PM']The only time I would get a bad taste was if a buyer gave the going to a good home to be loved and cherished only speech, for it to be on sale again for a profit a few days later. Or if someone is for all intensive purposes trading with the intention of making money but not letting on.[/quote]

I've had that, the 'I am a gigging bassist who will use your vintage collectible amp'. Cool, I want it used, and as the sort of chap who keeps an eye on such things, I will definitely notice if it appears on ebay in a couple of days. It happens, I dealt with it, just I ask collector prices for vintage gear now.

[budget bassist]

I don't buy and sell on here purely to make a profit, however if i want to move a piece of gear on, i'll sell it at what i perceive to be the market value. I'll buy and sell on ebay for a profit, but not on here. That's not to say I wouldn't buy something a for a good price, intending to play it, and then sell it off for a profit a few months later, having not gotten on with it as well as i would have hoped. I've done that once before in a big way, and i contacted the previous owner about it, and he was fully aware of the value of the bass and totally happy for me to do so, as was the buyer. As it's basschat though, i'm more than happy for people to haggle a little, as you guys say, it is a community. I can't afford to let things go for silly prices though, so i don't. If i was better off, then maybe i would be more generous, but that's mot the case, and i'm sure many people on here can appreciate that.

Edited November 27, 2010 by budget bassist

[JTUK]

[quote name='Truckstop' post='1038892' date='Nov 27 2010, 03:48 PM']Twat

Truckstop[/quote]

What was that called for..?

[D-L-B]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1037863' date='Nov 26 2010, 03:18 PM']Or if someone is for [i][b]all intensive purposes trading[/b][/i] with the intention of making money but not letting on.[/quote]
It's "[b][i]all intents and purposes[/i][/b]".

Anyway.

I think people's feelings on this matter partly depend on whether you measure your happiness relative to that of others or you find your own absolute happiness.
I have sold things on here and in other places very cheaply in the past, normally because I have bought them for a similar price and more often than not sell at a loss. I've always been happy to do so and couldn't care less what the new owner chooses to do with the item. I don't get jealous or infected by someone else's greed.
When I'm buying I research what I'm after and know what I'm willing to pay for it. Everyone is free to choose.
I understand it's important to keep markets in check etc and there are some items I think are grossly over inflated in price beyond belief, from vintage Fenders down to Deep Impact pedals, but that's the price you pay for being unoriginal!). It's my choice to trade generously as it is other sellers choice to trade selfishly.

Dan

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Truckstop' post='1038892' date='Nov 27 2010, 03:48 PM']Twat

Truckstop[/quote]

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Truckstop' post='1038892' date='Nov 27 2010, 03:48 PM']Twat

Truckstop[/quote]

Who exactly is a twat?

[Doddy]

[quote name='Truckstop' post='1038892' date='Nov 27 2010, 03:48 PM']Twat

Truckstop[/quote]

Eh?
Who is and why? It seems pretty unnecessary

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1039208' date='Nov 27 2010, 07:36 PM']Eh?
Who is and why? It seems pretty unnecessary[/quote]

Agreed.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='budget bassist' post='1039091' date='Nov 27 2010, 06:15 PM']I don't buy and sell on here purely to make a profit, however if i want to move a piece of gear on, i'll sell it at what i perceive to be the market value. I'll buy and sell on ebay for a profit, but not on here. That's not to say I wouldn't buy something a for a good price, intending to play it, and then sell it off for a profit a few months later, having not gotten on with it as well as i would have hoped. I've done that once before in a big way, and i contacted the previous owner about it, and he was fully aware of the value of the bass and totally happy for me to do so, as was the buyer. As it's basschat though, i'm more than happy for people to haggle a little, as you guys say, it is a community. I can't afford to let things go for silly prices though, so i don't. If i was better off, then maybe i would be more generous, but that's mot the case, and i'm sure many people on here can appreciate that.[/quote]
You've touched upon something very important to the thread, it's whether or not it was originally purchased with the intent to resell or to play that makes a big difference. Trying to prove it is something else though - if it comes back onto the market within a short time scale it is more likely to be the former but not necessarily so.