Clarky Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 On one of my basses, I have some medium tension Pyramid flats which tend to pull quite hard on the neck, resulting in very slight bowing. For those who like medium/high action this would not be the slightest problem, but I like a pretty low action and so this results in buzzing at the dusty end. I keep tweaking the truss rod clockwise and - for a short time - the problem is fixed. But then the next day, its almost as if I never touched the truss rod and the buzzing returns. Is it possible it is "unwinding" or slipping, so that the adjustments I make are not registering, or is it just natural settle? Any thoughts peeps? FYI, I am getting slightly nervous as the truss rod is near maxed out, judging by how hard it is to turn at this point (it really requires brute force), and I have to unscrew the neck each time I adjust so I worry also about stripping the screw holes in the heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 The obvious thing to try would be to put on some less tension strings for a day or two and see if the same thing happens. Depending on the type of t/r, you can eek a few extra turns out of them buy slipping a washer under the nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share Posted November 30, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1042255' date='Nov 30 2010, 12:45 PM']The obvious thing to try would be to put on some less tension strings for a day or two and see if the same thing happens. Depending on the type of t/r, you can eek a few extra turns out of them buy slipping a washer under the nut.[/quote] Thanks Ou7shined. Silly question but what/where is the nut (is it the cross-hatched truss rod screw head you are referring to?) If so, how would I get a washer underneath it - ie, would I need to completely unscrew and remove this first? Edited November 30, 2010 by Clarky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 sounds like a single action rod to me, though i could be wrong. basically single action rods will only pull the neck to its original straightness and the only fix once a neck is bowed at full truss rod tension, is to level the board and refret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share Posted November 30, 2010 (edited) [quote name='lettsguitars' post='1042266' date='Nov 30 2010, 12:51 PM']sounds like a single action rod to me, though i could be wrong. basically single action rods will only pull the neck to its original straightness and the only fix once a neck is bowed at full truss rod tension, is to level the board and refret.[/quote] Thanks. I guess its possible that teh truss rod is not "nearly max'd out" but just incredibly stiff? If so, is it possible to oil truss rods. Never thought to ask? Mind you, if it is slipping then that wouldn't help ... Edited November 30, 2010 by Clarky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 [quote name='Clarky' post='1042284' date='Nov 30 2010, 01:00 PM']Thanks. I guess its possible that teh truss rod is not "nearly max'd out" but just incredibly stiff? If so, is it possible to oil truss rods. Never thought to ask? Mind you, if it is slipping then that wouldn't help ...[/quote] It's not so much the truss rod settling down as the neck settling. A timespan of 24hrs is perfectly normal to make between adjustments, I'm sure you already know but for others reading; don't be tempted to take it more than 1/4 - 1/2 turn in any one session then leave for a few hours/overnight. Some basses respond and react almost instantly (my Sadowskys had what I would call whippier necks and they all did) but others (i.e. stiffer necked basses like early Warwicks) take days to fettle. Yes you can grease your nuts (fnarr ) but use purpose made grease rather than oil. Not because the oil will do any harm (it'll still do the job) but because the grease will continue doing the job long after oil will. Saying that a little squirt of WD40 or the equivalent stuff that dries without leaving a residue (can't think of the name but it's a bunch of letters and numbers like WD40) can free up any stiffness in your... no I'll refrain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 as for max'ing out a rod, i can't imagine that ever happening. if somethings 'rattling' and the rod is in tension, you've got problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 [quote name='Clarky' post='1042260' date='Nov 30 2010, 12:47 PM']Thanks Ou7shined. Silly question but what/where is the nut (is it the cross-hatched truss rod screw head you are referring to?) If so, how would I get a washer underneath it - ie, would I need to completely unscrew and remove this first?[/quote] What looks like a screw is in fact a nut. A wee (and I mean wee) squirt of wd40 won't do any harm... try not to get it on the wood though. (doh wrong spelling of "by" above ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share Posted November 30, 2010 [quote name='lettsguitars' post='1042325' date='Nov 30 2010, 01:27 PM']as for max'ing out a rod, i can't imagine that ever happening. if somethings 'rattling' and the rod is in tension, you've got problems.[/quote] There's no rattling. I have heard of people snapping truss rods by over-tightening, thats what left me a bit fearful. In fact it turns out that the previous owner of the bass (he just PM'd me) found the truss rod pretty stiff to adjust, even with lower tension strings. So it may just be that the issue here is I have a very stiff truss rod that is making me tread too carefully with adjustments for fearing of over-doing it. Thus Warwickhunt's WD40/grease suggestion (for which thanks WH!) may be the solution to my problem here. Well its worth a try anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 [quote name='Clarky' post='1042331' date='Nov 30 2010, 01:31 PM']There's no rattling. I have heard of people snapping truss rods by over-tightening, thats what left me a bit fearful. In fact it turns out that the previous owner of the bass (he just PM'd me) found the truss rod pretty stiff to adjust, even with lower tension strings. So it may just be that the issue here is I have a very stiff truss rod that is making me tread too carefully with adjustments for fearing of over-doing it. Thus Warwickhunt's WD40/grease suggestion (for which thanks WH!) may be the solution to my problem here. Well its worth a try anyway [/quote] I spy the Bass Doc looking at your post and he'll have done 100's of such jobs... plus if he posts he gets to make rude jokes about tightening nuts etc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share Posted November 30, 2010 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='1042330' date='Nov 30 2010, 01:30 PM']A wee (and I mean wee) squirt of wd40 won't do any harm... try not to get it on the wood though.[/quote] Thanks again mate, I will go seek the WD40 tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bass Doc Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='1042336' date='Nov 30 2010, 01:34 PM']I spy the Bass Doc looking at your post and he'll have done 100's of such jobs... plus if he posts he gets to make rude jokes about tightening nuts etc! [/quote] OK, ok, It's correct to say I've handled lots of bass players nuts over the years but Clarky would have to live a bit closer for me to have a 'feel' for what the problem might be. Thanks for this oportunity WH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 [quote name='The Bass Doc' post='1042358' date='Nov 30 2010, 01:46 PM']OK, ok, It's correct to say I've handled lots of bass players nuts over the years but Clarky would have to live a bit closer for me to have a 'feel' for what the problem might be. Thanks for this oportunity WH. [/quote] I'll set em up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share Posted November 30, 2010 [quote name='The Bass Doc' post='1042358' date='Nov 30 2010, 01:46 PM']OK, ok, It's correct to say I've handled lots of bass players nuts over the years but Clarky would have to live a bit closer for me to have a 'feel' for what the problem might be. Thanks for this oportunity WH. [/quote] Thankfully there's 300 miles and 248,000 tonnes of snow between us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted December 1, 2010 Author Share Posted December 1, 2010 [quote name='Clarky' post='1042331' date='Nov 30 2010, 01:31 PM']it may just be that the issue here is I have a very stiff truss rod that is making me tread too carefully with adjustments for fearing of over-doing it[/quote] Looks like a stiff truss rod was the issue. I was a bit braver with it yesterday (couldn't find the WD-40 unfortunately; it literally is bicep-busting to turn the truss rod) and I have the neck nice and straight now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatEric Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 [quote name='Clarky' post='1043278' date='Dec 1 2010, 07:44 AM']Looks like a stiff truss rod was the issue. I was a bit braver with it yesterday (couldn't find the WD-40 unfortunately; it literally is bicep-busting to turn the truss rod) and I have the neck nice and straight now.[/quote] Hi. I have read several posts like this, over the last few months. I'm sure a lot of people know this but some may not. When I was in short trousers I was shown by an old fella who was associated with the dark art of guitar fixing, how to put a back-bend into a neck before adjusting it. I think I may have seen details on here at some point, so it might be worth having a scout around to see if it could be found. I do it all the time, to avoid shearing the rod/stripping the thread. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 [quote name='Clarky' post='1042331' date='Nov 30 2010, 01:31 PM']In fact it turns out that the previous owner of the bass (he just PM'd me) found the truss rod pretty stiff to adjust, even with lower tension strings.[/quote] I'm just wondering how the tension of the strings can have anything to do with how hard it is to adjust the rod. You are loosening off the strings before you increase the tension in the rod, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 [quote name='lettsguitars' post='1042325' date='Nov 30 2010, 01:27 PM']as for max'ing out a rod, i can't imagine that ever happening. if somethings 'rattling' and the rod is in tension, you've got problems.[/quote] I've got a Fender with a maxed out truss rod, luckily it's a bullet-type with the truss at the neck end, so it was dead easy to slip some washers in and problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted December 2, 2010 Author Share Posted December 2, 2010 [quote name='pete.young' post='1044436' date='Dec 1 2010, 10:32 PM']I'm just wondering how the tension of the strings can have anything to do with how hard it is to adjust the rod. You are loosening off the strings before you increase the tension in the rod, yes?[/quote] Yep, I always loosen the strings before adjusting the truss rod. What I meant about string tension is that higher tension strings exert more pull on the neck so the truss rod needs more tightening clockwise to compensate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 [quote name='Clarky' post='1044522' date='Dec 2 2010, 12:11 AM']Yep, I always loosen the strings before adjusting the truss rod. What I meant about string tension is that higher tension strings exert more pull on the neck so the truss rod needs more tightening clockwise to compensate.[/quote] By the way, symptom of a maxed out truss rod for me was that it got very stiff to turn, like you're finding. That's probably not the case with yours but to be safe, I'd put some penetrating oil in to try and loosen it just so you know you're not at that limit. Or it could suddenly shear off given how much force you're having to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 When you say rattle do you mean buzz on the higher frets? Im guessing so. I bought the MIA Fender P I have and it had an insanely low setup, but wow was it a beauty to play. The neck seemed spot on, so I just adjusted the string height saddles very slightly. Now the fret buzz I had near the higher frets has completely gone. I think youve managed to sort it anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted December 2, 2010 Author Share Posted December 2, 2010 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1044830' date='Dec 2 2010, 11:14 AM']I think youve managed to sort it anyway [/quote] Much to wifey's disgust I had a quick play on the bass in question (my Pino) when I got in past midnight from DB gig last night, to see if the action had changed again. Nope, totally stable and as I left it the previous day. So it now plays beautifully and exactly how I want it to, ie, really low, fast and slick. So thanks Gareth, all sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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