How the hell do you learn Jumpin' Jack Flash?

[Marvin]

The damn thing's out of tune FFS. I thought it was punk that was played primarily out of tune. I knew there was a reason I hated the Stones


/rant

[Happy Jack]

What's out of tune with what?

[Marvin]

The recording I have, if you try and play say the bass part behind the main riff (which ok is basically just playing a root note) then it sounds out of tune whether you play B or Bb or any note whatsoever. It just sounds out.

Perhaps I should get my ears tested Can you get your ears tuned?

Edited November 30, 2010 by Marvin

[Wylie]

[quote name='Marvin' post='1043173' date='Nov 30 2010, 06:48 PM']The recording I have, if you try and play say the bass part behind the main riff (which ok is basically just playing a root note) then it sounds out of tune whether you play B or Bb or any note whatsoever. It just sounds out.

Perhaps I should get my ears tested Can you get your ears tuned?[/quote]

This isn't too uncommon. Sometimes the group would want the tempo picked up a bit and would have the whole thing speeded up a bit in the final recording process, which results in 'inaccurate' notes. The Beatles did this occasionally.

tg

[Marvin]

[quote name='tedgilley' post='1043187' date='Dec 1 2010, 12:00 AM']This isn't too uncommon. Sometimes the group would want the tempo picked up a bit and would have the whole thing speeded up a bit in the final recording process, which results in 'inaccurate' notes. The Beatles did this occasionally.

tg[/quote]
Ha! Damned amateurs!

Thanks for the tip, it would seem to explain the quite frankly bizarre tuning.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Marvin' post='1043189' date='Dec 1 2010, 12:02 AM']....Ha! Damned amateurs!....[/quote]
It’s got nothing to do with being "amateur". Varying the speed of a track after it’s been recorded by using a Vari-Speed has been a legitimate part of recording for decades.

[AndyTravis]

there is a Betles tune I had to learn for a dep gig last month, and that was the same, half a note out of tune...

I just scrapped the YouTube and Itunes and mashed my way through it.

Played Jumping Jack Flash at the same one.

[Bloodaxe]

I wonder if it's a feature of '60s Decca recordings - a load of Small Faces tunes are a quarter tone 'out' & I think the early Who stuff is similarly featured.

[flyfisher]

Try pitch-changing the audio file. Audacity will do this for you (can't remember if it'll do 1/4 tones though).

Or just re-tune the bass to the recording while learning it.

[Bloodaxe]

Oh, it's in B btw. (According to the Stones Songbook wot I've got).

[icastle]

[quote name='Marvin' post='1043121' date='Nov 30 2010, 11:10 PM']The damn thing's out of tune FFS. I thought it was punk that was played primarily out of tune. I knew there was a reason I hated the Stones


/rant[/quote]

Easy - just retune your bass to the tune and put it back when you're done...

[skankdelvar]

The general varispeeded out-of-tuneness of JJF is further compounded by:

* Some of the guitars being slightly out of tune with each other anyway

* One of them being open tuned where all the strings are either B or F#. This causes some interesting clashes on certain chords.

That said, it's a gorgeous chimy slab of murk and I wouldn't have it any other way

[SteveO]

It seems that most of the songs we play are out of tune or in dropped keys. Its easy enough to drop the E string to a Eb, D, Db etc, but microtonal changes are a right pain. Of course we usually play in the closest available key (JJF in B I think) Amazing Slower Downer really helps for the learning / play along at home time as changing the tuning is only a click away. You can change tuning and speed up / slow down on the fly so you don't have to wait for the tune to be re-rendered (my personal bugbear with audacity) and its cheap as chips.

[Musky]

[quote name='SteveO' post='1043266' date='Dec 1 2010, 07:03 AM']It seems that most of the songs we play are out of tune or in dropped keys. Its easy enough to drop the E string to a Eb, D, Db etc, but microtonal changes are a right pain. Of course we usually play in the closest available key (JJF in B I think) Amazing Slower Downer really helps for the learning / play along at home time as changing the tuning is only a click away. You can change tuning and speed up / slow down on the fly so you don't have to wait for the tune to be re-rendered (my personal bugbear with audacity) and its cheap as chips.[/quote]
Or Best Practice if you use a PC - it's freeware and looks to be virtually the same as the ASD (minus the EQ section).

[gafbass02]

I need to get up to speed with this pc stuff. I just plug an iPod into my zoom 9.1 and play along. How do I do all this computerness?

[Low End Bee]

I used to have this problem a lot back in the days of black & white and horseless carriages. When I was trying to learn a song by playing along with the record and I found it was out of pitch or speeded up to a stupid key like Bb, I would just play small sections of it and then try and replicate it in a sensible key. Used to take bloody ages.

[Clarky]

As an alternative, you could always do a Keef and imbibe a load of drugs and booze and it would probably sound great

Edit: I know the bass player was Bill Wyman but if I suggested doing a Wyman it might bring up other connotations

Edited December 1, 2010 by Clarky

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Clarky' post='1043335' date='Dec 1 2010, 09:02 AM']As an alternative, you could always do a Keef and imbibe a load of drugs and booze and it would probably sound great

Edit: I know the bass player was Bill Wyman but if I suggested doing a Wyman it might bring up other connotations [/quote]
I believe some sources claim it was Keef on bass. Wyman had to play his organ.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='gafbass02' post='1043308' date='Dec 1 2010, 08:37 AM']I need to get up to speed with this pc stuff. I just plug an iPod into my zoom 9.1 and play along. How do I do all this computerness?[/quote]

* Instal your chosen software on your PC (I use [i]Amazing Slow Downer[/i] which is brilliant, not keen on [i]Audacity[/i]).

* Make sure your music files are on the PC, too. If you usually keep them only on your iPod, then run a Sync between your PC and your iPod.

* Take a micro-jack --> micro-jack lead from the headphone socket on your PC (usually a ghastly pale green) to the Line In on your normal practice device (probably called [i][b]Aux In[/b][/i] or similar).

* Instead of playing the track using Windows Media Player or iTunes, open the track through your chosen software and play it there.

You can download ASD from the InterNet ( [url="http://www.ronimusic.com/"]http://www.ronimusic.com/[/url] ) as a free demo, which will give you (IIRC) full functionality but only let you play the first 30 seconds of each track. For about $50 you can buy the product.

I consider it one of the better $50 purchases I've made.

I use it to:

* slow down tracks, or bits of tracks, where I can't work out what the bassist is playing at full speed.

* loop tricky bits of tracks so that I can play them again & again.

* change the pitch of tracks which have either been Vari-speeded or which are in awkward keys (e.g. Eb to E).

* change the key of tracks which I want to sing but which are outside my range in their original key.

* minimise the low frequencies on the track so that I can play along without being distracted by the original bassline.

All these changes can be made 'on the fly' and in real time. There's no need to "re-process" the file after each change.

Once you have the settings you want for a track, you can save it (separately from the original, of course) with those settings and come back to it later.

Just about the only gripe I have with ASD is that it won't save files in mp3 format, only as WAV.

Highly recommended.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='1043373' date='Dec 1 2010, 09:30 AM']I believe some sources claim it was Keef on bass. Wyman had to play his organ.[/quote]

In his autobiography ("Life") Keef says that JJF was recorded using layer upon layer of acoustic guitar played at distortion levels through a cassette recorder so it sounded like an electric, and that he dubbed the bass on later.

He doesn't give a blow-by-blow account of the recording, but there's a clear implication that the only musicians on the recording are him plus Charlie Watts, and of course the vocals.

I'm sure we'll all be relieved to hear that Bill never touched Keef's organ.

[chris_b]

Sounds like there's plenty of clean electric guitar on the record to me!!

[Happy Jack]

Until I read the book, Chris, I'd have said the same.

[KevB]

The subject of JJF has come uip before. While I accept using varispeed tapes wasn't uncommon I'm not sure how deliberate it was in this case, especially given KR's account of how it was put together. I think it would beless likely for a band to deliberately slow down a recording. Can't see the stones listening back to JJF and saying 'Nah, it's too fast, lets slow the tape down'. If the sheet music is in B and when you hear it it's somewhere below B but not quite proper Bb either then they would have to have slowed the tape down to get that effect. Probably an artefact of bouncing layers of cassette recordings back and forth. I played along with it in Bflat at first to get the feel, then when I was happy with what I was playing I just moved it all up a fret for gigs. I've never jammed with anyone who played it in anything other than B though. Not much to it bass wise, easy enough to move it round the fretboard even for a plodder like me.

Edited December 1, 2010 by KevB

[Slipperydick]

You could try and learn it from a live version, might be in tune that way. Theres a good one on ya yas out.

One of them numbers everybody seems to know, but never come up with a bass line I'm entirely happy with for it mself.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Slipperydick

[essexbasscat]

I never saw an electronic tuner until more recent years. Until then, I'd guess EVERYONE tuned every musical instrument by ear alone. I've come across tons of recordings from the 60's and 70's that are 'off' by standard tuning. Just re-tune the bass.

Have a listen to Macca's bass on 'Band on the run'. Sounds like the bottom E is deliberately out of tune with the rest of his bass. Quite effective.