guybrush threepwood Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 At work today (I work at a school) I noticed some of the site staff walking this outside towards the bins. I quickly piped up and claimed it, idealistically dreaming that I might be able to restore it somewhat (well, at least get it into a playable condition). The fingerboard has been completely removed, and looks very worn. There is a lot of damage to the body, and although most of it looks like superficial scratches, there are bits on the edge which look like they've been attacked by a beaver. One of the f-holes is damaged too. How would I glue these parts back together? (It looks like multiple laminates of would splitting apart from each other...) Obviously it'll need a new bridge and a set of strings As it's so beat-up, I was thinking it might be cool to go a bit jackson pollock on it and paint it all over, would this effect the tone / playability in a negative way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan670844 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 [quote name='guybrush threepwood' post='1050815' date='Dec 7 2010, 06:08 PM']At work today (I work at a school) I noticed some of the site staff walking this outside towards the bins. I quickly piped up and claimed it, idealistically dreaming that I might be able to restore it somewhat (well, at least get it into a playable condition). The fingerboard has been completely removed, and looks very worn. There is a lot of damage to the body, and although most of it looks like superficial scratches, there are bits on the edge which look like they've been attacked by a beaver. One of the f-holes is damaged too. How would I glue these parts back together? (It looks like multiple laminates of would splitting apart from each other...) Obviously it'll need a new bridge and a set of strings As it's so beat-up, I was thinking it might be cool to go a bit jackson pollock on it and paint it all over, would this effect the tone / playability in a negative way? [/quote] Jeez thats a crime it looks like it has been done on purpose.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 All I get from school is free chalk and paperwork, some people have all the luck. Speak to your Design Technology team or technician nicely, ply them with wine or beer to taste. They may well patch the damage up with thin inlays + glue the fingerboard (or replacement) back on. Strip it back, stain darker, refinish. A fun knockabout DB for minimal cost. Result. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybrush threepwood Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 [quote name='dan670844' post='1050926' date='Dec 7 2010, 07:34 PM']Jeez thats a crime it looks like it has been done on purpose.![/quote] Hmm, you're not too familiar with the mentality of school kids then?... [quote name='3below' post='1050938' date='Dec 7 2010, 07:45 PM']All I get from school is free chalk and paperwork, some people have all the luck. Speak to your Design Technology team or technician nicely, ply them with wine or beer to taste. They may well patch the damage up with thin inlays + glue the fingerboard (or replacement) back on. Strip it back, stain darker, refinish. A fun knockabout DB for minimal cost. Result. Enjoy.[/quote] It was definitely a case of right place, right time. I'll go and have a word with our tech department, maybe ask them about borrowing a clamp or two; I'd quite like to do the work myself though, but that might be a step too far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrenleepoole Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 So, you fancy yourself as a DB luthier eh? Even though this is beat up to hell, it's certainly a good way to learn how to restore an instrument. It looks like it's probably a Meinel or Musima possibly, a budget range from the 70's and 80's. I had one very similar from a school which I paid 50 quid for. For the money, or lack of it, you can't go wrong really. I'm betting that if you do mange to restore this, you'll probably have more pride in owning it as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybrush threepwood Posted December 8, 2010 Author Share Posted December 8, 2010 [quote name='derrenleepoole' post='1051149' date='Dec 7 2010, 11:23 PM']So, you fancy yourself as a DB luthier eh? [/quote] Haha, I wouldn't go that far, but I think it would be a nice project, and I already feel quite attached to it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickylee Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Wow! what a lucky find. Looks like you have your work cut out with this project. I would tackle repairing something like this too! Even if only to learn from the experience. I am a carpenter to trade, but, never tackled anything like this. The veneer should be simple enough to repair, but any splits would need re-inforcing from the inside with an oversize patch, so you would have a firm foundation to close any gaps/splits which then could be repaired from the face side. Not sure what glue is used constructing an ADB but, may be horse-glue or something similar. I think the back would have to come off to gain access to the damaged areas....maybe a hot knife will help seperate the joints, etc. As I said, I'm only guessing. You might be able to find an old piece of veneered furniture as a doner source for the repairs. Would be cool to follow your progress. Udoubtabally speaking to a real luthier who is willing to give up his secrets, would be the best source of advice. Good luck Ricky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybrush threepwood Posted December 8, 2010 Author Share Posted December 8, 2010 [quote name='Rickylee' post='1051726' date='Dec 8 2010, 02:31 PM']Wow! what a lucky find. Looks like you have your work cut out with this project. I would tackle repairing something like this too! Even if only to learn from the experience. I am a carpenter to trade, but, never tackled anything like this. The veneer should be simple enough to repair, but any splits would need re-inforcing from the inside with an oversize patch, so you would have a firm foundation to close any gaps/splits which then could be repaired from the face side. Not sure what glue is used constructing an ADB but, may be horse-glue or something similar. I think the back would have to come off to gain access to the damaged areas....maybe a hot knife will help seperate the joints, etc. As I said, I'm only guessing. You might be able to find an old piece of veneered furniture as a doner source for the repairs. Would be cool to follow your progress. Udoubtabally speaking to a real luthier who is willing to give up his secrets, would be the best source of advice. Good luck Ricky[/quote] Crikey, I'm beginning to think that I might be out of my depth... To be honest, there don't look to be any 'splits' in it, but there is a small dent on one side... But I don't really want to open it up; I would definitely do more damage. I just want to get it into a playable condition, so I can use it for recording, maybe the odd jazz gig. I spoke to someone today, and they recommended getting glue into the veneers and simply clamping them, so I think that'll be my plan. Once that's done, I'll sand down the fingerboard a little bit, stain it, and glue it back on to the neck. I was telling my old man about it today, and he seems quite keen to help me out with it over Christmas, so it'll be going back to my folks with me for the festive period! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonzoooroo Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Here speaks a luthier in "bodge" mode: Where the laminate's coming apart at the edges, use "titebond". (don't muck about with other glue!) chop a bit of old ply/mdf/whatever to make pads which cover the area to spread the clamping force. Use a couple of sash cramps. Try it dry to check your board pads don't exert pressure on the arching of the instrument - only on the area you're gluing. Cover boards in cling film so you don't glue them onto the bass(!) Glue liberally, clean glue off surface (water). Clamp. Make tea. Repeat process wherever the laminate's coming apart using appropriate clamps/boards. Shape boards to arching cntours if required. Replacing veneer is replacing veneer. chop what's there bcak to a clean edge, then add new veneer. Either laminate veneer to build thickness, or glue a thicker piece of wood on, and shape later (scrapers are your friend) Any instances of seams (fornt/back to rib joints) coming unglued are best tackled with traditional animal glue, (NOT titebond) and clamped continuously (clamps touching - many clamps required!) Fingerboard: If it's ebony it's going to be worth getting a luthier to re-attach it. Honestly. Don't use titebond! Please!!!! If you just want it gluing back on, and are happy to rub a bit of sandpaper (or a scraper) over the board to beck joint yourself, it'l be 30 mins. laboour, and leaving the bass overnight with them for the glue to cure in a controled athmosphere. It's not just a case of slapping glue on and waiting for it to dry! If the wear's bad on the playing surface, ask them for a price for a re-shoot. For me, The severity of the wear affects the price charged. Bridge fitting's a real skill. You may find there are guides online to show you how, but unless you're VERY confident, get your luthier to do it. It's the price of the bridge blank + a couple of hours labour. (blank prices vary hugely by quality) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgibson Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Already loving this thread. Keep us informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybrush threepwood Posted December 18, 2010 Author Share Posted December 18, 2010 [quote name='fonzoooroo' post='1060355' date='Dec 16 2010, 10:07 AM']Here speaks a luthier in "bodge" mode: Where the laminate's coming apart at the edges, use "titebond". (don't muck about with other glue!) chop a bit of old ply/mdf/whatever to make pads which cover the area to spread the clamping force. Use a couple of sash cramps. Try it dry to check your board pads don't exert pressure on the arching of the instrument - only on the area you're gluing. Cover boards in cling film so you don't glue them onto the bass(!) Glue liberally, clean glue off surface (water). Clamp. Make tea. Repeat process wherever the laminate's coming apart using appropriate clamps/boards. Shape boards to arching cntours if required. Replacing veneer is replacing veneer. chop what's there bcak to a clean edge, then add new veneer. Either laminate veneer to build thickness, or glue a thicker piece of wood on, and shape later (scrapers are your friend) Any instances of seams (fornt/back to rib joints) coming unglued are best tackled with traditional animal glue, (NOT titebond) and clamped continuously (clamps touching - many clamps required!) Fingerboard: If it's ebony it's going to be worth getting a luthier to re-attach it. Honestly. Don't use titebond! Please!!!! If you just want it gluing back on, and are happy to rub a bit of sandpaper (or a scraper) over the board to beck joint yourself, it'l be 30 mins. laboour, and leaving the bass overnight with them for the glue to cure in a controled athmosphere. It's not just a case of slapping glue on and waiting for it to dry! If the wear's bad on the playing surface, ask them for a price for a re-shoot. For me, The severity of the wear affects the price charged. Bridge fitting's a real skill. You may find there are guides online to show you how, but unless you're VERY confident, get your luthier to do it. It's the price of the bridge blank + a couple of hours labour. (blank prices vary hugely by quality)[/quote] Wow, that's quite a wealth of information, thank you very much! To be honest, I don't want to spend any money taking this to a luthier, simply as it was free! As long I can fix it up enough to make it playable I'll be a very happy boy. I'm now back at my folks house for Christmas, so the 'restoration' will begin in the next couple of days - I shall take photos as I go! Thanks to everyone for their help so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 If you really want to have a go yourself try this book [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Setup-Repair-Double-Optimum-Sound/dp/1892210061/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1292702498&sr=8-1"]Repair & Setup of Double Bass[/url]. It's rather more money now than when I bought mine but you could probably ask your local library to get hold of it. It has a smallish section specific to laminated instruments but a wealth of information on general setup and repair, which, looking at what you've got, will take the most time. Fitting bridges and shooting fingerboards are quite involved but neither's impossible, you just need to take your time. Just do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 [quote name='henry norton' post='1062880' date='Dec 18 2010, 08:14 PM']If you really want to have a go yourself try this book [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Setup-Repair-Double-Optimum-Sound/dp/1892210061/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1292702498&sr=8-1"]Repair & Setup of Double Bass[/url]. It's rather more money now than when I bought mine but you could probably ask your local library to get hold of it.[/quote] You might be able to get it for 1/2 that price [url="http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1673322702&searchurl=bt.x%3D0%26bt.y%3D0%26sts%3Dt%26tn%3DSetup%2BAnd%2BRepair%2Bof%2Bthe%2BDouble%2BBass"]here[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybrush threepwood Posted December 19, 2010 Author Share Posted December 19, 2010 (edited) Right, the first day of the 'restoration' has started. And before anyone panics, please remember that this is going to be a bit of a 'Heath Robinson' fix, on a cheapo bass that I acquired for free. If you're squeamish you may want to stop reading now... Firstly, I glued one of the splits at the edge of the veneers. After using a slither of sandpaper to clean out any glue residue, I filled the gaps with wood glue and clamped them tight. I'll leave it clamped for 24 hours and see how it's taken. Then, after inspecting the luscious fingerboard wear I twigged that this may not actually be ebony haha So I sanded the shoddy paint job back a little to remove the wear and key the original paint And then it received it's first coat of hardwearing black gloss My Dad wisely suggested that the tailpiece should be painted to match, as it looked a bit tatty So here it is after the first coat: That concludes day one, I really keen to get back to it tomorrow! In the meantime, to the pub! Edited December 23, 2010 by guybrush threepwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 (edited) [quote name='bartelby' post='1063410' date='Dec 19 2010, 01:03 PM']You might be able to get it for 1/2 that price [url="http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1673322702&searchurl=bt.x%3D0%26bt.y%3D0%26sts%3Dt%26tn%3DSetup%2BAnd%2BRepair%2Bof%2Bthe%2BDouble%2BBass"]here[/url][/quote] Unfortunately that's the 'coda' supplement to the original book - it's just got some updates, erratum and extra bits of information for users of the original book. Anyway, there are probably a few people on the forum who'll be willing to thumb through their copies for the benefit of a fellow forum user The board looks to be in fairly good nik from what I can see in the pictures which must have been a bit of a relief. Edited December 20, 2010 by henry norton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybrush threepwood Posted December 20, 2010 Author Share Posted December 20, 2010 [quote name='henry norton' post='1064549' date='Dec 20 2010, 01:02 PM']Unfortunately that's the 'coda' supplement to the original book - it's just got some updates, erratum and extra bits of information for users of the original book. Anyway, there are probably a few people on the forum who'll be willing to thumb through their copies for the benefit of a fellow forum user The board looks to be in fairly good nik from what I can see in the pictures which must have been a bit of a relief.[/quote] Yeah, once I sanded it back, the board appeared to be fine. Phew, no skimming for me! I haven't done much on it today, it's far too cold in the garage! However, I did check the veneers I've glued and they've turned out fine. I'll sand the glue back when it's a bit warmer. I also glued some more at the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonzoooroo Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Then I won't mind at all if you titebond the fingerboard on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybrush threepwood Posted December 20, 2010 Author Share Posted December 20, 2010 haha, god knows what wood it actually is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonzoooroo Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 [quote name='guybrush threepwood' post='1064810' date='Dec 20 2010, 05:12 PM']haha, god knows what wood it actually is...[/quote] best not to think about it too hard... I've had a new chinese bass in where the "ebony" board was black paint over knotty maple (perhaps even "maple!") with about 1/2 a tub of filler in it... and it was warped. Completely impossible to re-shoot by conventional means. I spent 1/2 an hour fighting it (every trick for planing/scraping knots, but it'd always tear the grain out on the "other" side of each knot), before quitting and replacing the fingerboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybrush threepwood Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 hehe, well this one looks quite level, so hopefully it should be ok! I'm going to go out and brave the cold to do some more work on it in a minute, just going to drink copious amounts of tea first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybrush threepwood Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 Made some good progress today! It's still slow going - everything takes so long to dry in these temperatures. The fingerboard now has had a 2nd coat of paint; what would be the best thing to use to buff and polish this when it's dry? I've also glued the remaining layers of veneer on the damaged f-hole And we've experimented with a couple of different techniques to patch up the bass' scars: I couldn't get hold of any veneer, but I found this iron-on pastic edging - it looks horrible but will do the job, plus I plan to paint the bass, so it won't be seen. Of course, once the glue has dried I'll trim this with a razor blade. And we tested how well grain filler will work on the dings, scratches and gouges, I'm pleased with the result! Again, once it's sanded back and painted it should be all good. To help everyone feel a little more festive, here's a picture from behind my parents' house... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janmaat Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Hello m8, i've done something quite similar - albeit, mine was actually in a worse condition! the thread is here [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=87790&hl=serious+repair"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...=serious+repair[/url] just keep going, it's fun - but a heck load of work at the end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybrush threepwood Posted December 22, 2010 Author Share Posted December 22, 2010 [quote name='janmaat' post='1065711' date='Dec 21 2010, 02:37 PM']Hello m8, i've done something quite similar - albeit, mine was actually in a worse condition! the thread is here [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=87790&hl=serious+repair"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...=serious+repair[/url] just keep going, it's fun - but a heck load of work at the end![/quote] Cheers mate, that made for some interesting reading! I see what you mean about the condition - my jaw dropped when I saw the bridge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybrush threepwood Posted December 22, 2010 Author Share Posted December 22, 2010 It's been another productive day! I've more or less sorted the really scrappy veneers on the side of the body (it'll just need some grain filler on the front to sort the small gaps out). I've patched the hole in the side of the body: [u]Before[/u] [u]After[/u] I've also put the first layer of veneers on the broken f-hole (it just needs one more layer) And also used some grain filler on the big scratches, I'll sand them back tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybrush threepwood Posted December 23, 2010 Author Share Posted December 23, 2010 Well, another busy day! Unfortunately the veneers didn't take too well, so I've filled the problem areas and I'll see what they're like tomorrow. I'll probably have to build up multiple layers of filler... However, the areas I filled yesterday have come out well now that I've sanded back the grain filler. I've also painted the inside of the headstock And the fingerboard is now finished! I polished it up with a splash of T-cut At the moment the back looks like it has more grain filler than grain... Tomorrow should involve more filler work, and hopefully putting a coat of primer on the back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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