Some Pick playing questions

[Fat Rich]

I've always been a fingerstyle player but I've recently wanted to become a bit more versatile so I've started playing with a pick (and also a bit of slap, but that's another story). I'd tried playing some simple rock stuff with a pick in the past but got really bored really quickly so gave up and went back to fingers.

However, having seen this clip of Bobby Vega:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r_kvjO7xsc&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r_kvjO7xsc...player_embedded[/url]

I started playing my usual funk lines with a pick and loved it. However, as it involves lots of string skipping and muted ghost notes so it's proving to be a bit of a challenge, it seems the more I think about what I'm doing the more out of control it all gets!

So in case I'm picking up bad habits or approaching it all wrong I thought I'd get some opinions here.

1. How hard do you dig in with the pick?
Not much - similar volume level to fingers?
A bit - louder than fingers, about the same level as slap?
A lot - really loud and twangy?

2. What are your favourite pick guages and materials? I'm surprised at how different they all sound. I've tried the pink Dunlops .96mm that sound a bit scratchy, some old Ibanez picks with grip holes that sound very scratchy and some green Dunlop Tortex .88mm that sound a bit warmer. Scratchy seems to be a recurring theme here - I guess this is down to poor technique?

3. How hard do you grip the pick and how flexible are your finger and thumb? In other words do you let the pick move relative to your finger and thumb or is there no movement at all?

4. For funkier lines, how much palm muting do you use? I've also watched this [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi051x69UxE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi051x69UxE[/url] and I just can't get the palm muting consistent so I'm concentrating on just getting the basics down and then hopefully the muting won't be too hard to incorporate afterwards.


It seems like I can get all sorts of tone by varying all the above options so it would be good to know if there is a right way of doing it (there probably isn't!). I have my action fairly low at the moment and I'm not digging in with the pick enough to get much fret buzz, I'm also not gripping the pick very hard so there's some movement between it and my finger and thumb and I'm picking somewhere in between the bridge and neck pickup.

It seems like there a lot of pick players here so it'll interesting to hear your views!

Thanks in advance.

[yorick]

1) I vary my pick attack quite a lot, depending on the dynamics of the song. I'm predominantly a finger player now, but played with a pick for over twenty years.
2) Favourite plectrums are Dunlop Ultex Tri's in 0.88mm. They seem to give the perfect feel, attack and don't seem to want to slip, no matter how sweaty a gig gets.
3) I used to grip plectrums hard, almost white knuckle. That was mainly because i didn't want to lose them, and i used to play really heavy handed. Nowadays, my grip is alot lighter, and i can afford plectrums!!!!
4) When playing pick stylee, my picking hand is pretty much back by the bridge, with the heel and side of the hand resting on the strings. Doesn't seem to mute the strings too much though. Most of my damping/muting is done with my fretting hand when playing with a pick. Finger style, there's more of a mix of picking/fretting hand when muting.

Nige

[simon1964]

I play about 50/50 pick and fingerstyle.

I do tend to dig in harder with a pick, and get more volume. But that is mainly down to the fact that I tend to use a pick where I want a harder more aggressive stacatto sound to cut through.

I actually use two types of pick. Heavy tortex for a percussive sound (think JJ Burnell or Bruce Foxton). But as you say, that can sound "scratchy". For something less aggressive I would recommend the Jim Dunlop Nylon picks 1mm guage. You still get the extra attack of a pick, but with a bit less trebly twang.

I've never really thought about how hard I hold the pick, but I guess I do hold it tight enought for there to be little or no give when I hit the string. Again, that's probably because I use a pick if I'm looking for a more percussive sound.

Edited December 10, 2010 by simon1964

[skankdelvar]

YMMV, but here's what I do:

* Heaviest, largest pick possible. The old Gibson heavy triangular with curved edges. Thinner picks seem to add too much 'click' for me. And they break quicker.

* Pick held between thumb and first two fingers, with embossed logo facing the thumb for a bit of adhesion. Or I rough up one face with a bit of sandpaper.

* Grip varies. Loose for softer or faster passages, tight for harder / driving.

* Force of attack varied to suit quieter, louder, etc. Dynamics come from the wrist. Or the elbow if you're Dee Dee Ramone.

* Action high enough to hit the strings hard without buzz.

* Tone: As one would expect, I pick nearer the bridge for punch / clank, nearer the neck for 'round'

* 'Edge of the palm' muting puts my right hand over the saddles, so I use a fair bit of left hand muting if I'm picking up near the neck

* If required, I switch from pick to fingers in the same song by palming the pick and using my first two fingers. Worth practicing this one.

Edited December 10, 2010 by skankdelvar

[Low End Bee]

[i]1. How hard do you dig in with the pick? [/i]
Varies by song. A bit more than if I played fingerstyle I suppose?

[i]2. What are your favourite pick guages and materials?[/i]
Dunlop Tortex 1mm big triangles. You get three equal 'points' so they last longer. I find the lighter guages feel too floppy.

[i]3. How hard do you grip the pick and how flexible are your finger and thumb? [/i]
Quite firm I'd guess as I haven't dropped a pick whilst playing in a few years.

[i]4. For funkier lines, how much palm muting do you use? [/i]
I use a bit of right, outer palm over the bridge area to mute the strings (damn you sharp height adjuster screws) and keep the picking action very flexible. If that makes sense? I'm pretty quick on the octave disco stuff with a pick now too.

I find it helps if I sort of anchor my outer wrist by the bridge and try and keep the picking fluid. I find a not too high or low strap placement really important. I don't want the picking arm to be bunched up or stretching.

[waynepunkdude]

I find these are the best for bass.


They are flexable but harden up the closer the to the tip you grip it, they are textured so they don't slip.

[bassbloke]

Good post.

I started playing bass with a pick, switched to fingers partly because I got caught up in that whole 'proper bass players use fingerstyle' thing. I then had to start using a pick because of a nasty infection in my hand (which I still have, although its much much better).

1) If I'm playing downstrokes, I hit a lot harder because that's the effect I want. If I'm playing alternate picking, the trick is even attack on the upstroke and downstroke.

2) I use Dunlop 1mm nylon picks (black ones). I picked up some of the super grippy ones recently, but don't like them as much. They're stiff enough to produce a nice strong note, but the nylon material makes for a softer, less scratchy sound, which seems much more pronounced when using tortex picks. Theother bonus is that I use them on guitar too. Perfect.

3) The material I play is usually really fast - loads of triplets, fast 16th or even 32nd notes. To get the kind of clarity I need, I usually rest my right hand over the jazz pickup. A lot of players hold the pick really near the neck - that's fine if you want a softer sound, but you just don't get a nice clear note. If I'm playing a lot of cross string runs (alternate, hybrid or sweep picking) I'll find my hand creeping slightly forward for a more fluid sound and feel.

4) I use a hell of a lot of muting to give my picked lines more dynamics. For example, If I'm playing a nice fast pedalling riff on an open E or A, I'll mute the open string. Also, if I'm doubling fast double kick drum patterns, I need the extra control and clarity that I get from muted strings.

I think pick playing is an essential skill for any self respecting bass player. I've found that I'm a far better player for adapting my parts and playing to suit a different technique. I also find that effects such as overdrive, delay and chorus suit pickstyle more, whereas filter and synth effects just work better for fingerstyle, so another opportunity to adapt your playing.

[matski]

[attachment=66104:NylonStandard_11.png]

This is my pick of choice, the Jim Dunlop nylon range - actually I use the grey .88mm not the .60mm in the picture - and believe me I've been through bloody loads of different types over the years.

They have a bit of flex, they have a 'grippy' bit which is handy when you get sweaty mitts, and they don't crack or chip. You also get a nice 'rasp' if you play using them at an angle where the edge of the pick rubs over the wind of the string.

I bought a bag of 100 of them about 14 years ago, and still have about half of them left. The others were 'borrowed' and never returned by guitarists....

[HMX]

1. How hard do you dig in with the pick?
If its a song I really enjoy playing, then sometimes quite hard. But if my strings are older and lacking 'zing' I like laying off a little and keeping the groove with a pick.

2. What are your favourite pick guages and materials?
Currently using Dunlop 'the one with the alligator on ) 1.14mm and its just right.

3. How hard do you grip the pick and how flexible are your finger and thumb?
Firmly but if it starts to hurt, you obviously know that you need to ease off a little.

4. For funkier lines, how much palm muting do you use?
I don't play any funk with a pick generally, I feel I have more control with my fingers. However, with some rock/punk, I do like to add a little bit of palm muting - though not much. If it means much, I like to add ghost notes in riffs.

[daz]

I wsouldnt even consider anything less than the 1.14mm thickness. Less than that and the pick bends and affects the sound quite a bit. I spose this depends on how hard you play. but sometimes you need the extra speed for those 8th and 16th downstrokes. (or up and down strkes if thats the way you play)

Also give the Gibson heavey guage a try, you might get on with the slighly larger size.

ps: Tortex are cool for grip.

[Mog]

1. How hard do you dig in with the pick?

Depends on whats needed but its usually louder than fingerstyle.

2.What are your favourite pick guages and materials? Scratchy seems to be a recurring theme here - I guess this is down to poor technique?

We've an endorsement so its cant really comment on brands. Thickness wise I go for around 1mm. Nylon is good for a tone with less attack. Delrin for clicky/hard attack. EDIT: Sorry forgot to answer the second part. The scratching comes from the angle of attack, ie the strings and pick edge. Learn how to get different ammounts of scratch into your sound as it can be usefull at times.

3. How hard do you grip the pick and how flexible are your finger and thumb? In other words do you let the pick move relative to your finger and thumb or is there no movement at all?

Thumb and Index finger for a firm but flexable grip. Most of the movement comes from my wrist with a little from the pick fingers.

4. For funkier lines, how much palm muting do you use?

My pick technique comes from my guitar days. I use Hammetts extended pinky technique for muting. I just lay it across the bridge saddles and apply muting to the strings individually when required. This is where wrist+finger movement comes into its own.

Just remember that its not an acoustic guitar. No strumming required.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Mog

[Muzz]

I play 80% pick, 20% fingers, 0% slap. I use Dunlop grey .88s, have done for years. I don't grip them particularly hard, but I haven't dropped a pick that I can recall. Digging in is as variable as the song requires - everywhere from subtle stuff to a proper JJ twang. Heel of hand on/over bridge most of the time, but it does tend to float around depending on the sound/attack required. I do palm the pick (or stick it in my mush) to play fingerstyle.

Thinking about it, there's a lot more to pick playing than first meets the eye, but I've been doing it so long it's become instinctive, so I no longer think about it

[Cat Burrito]

I probably play 95% with fingers but was initially a pick player and do like to use the technique occasionally so...

[b]1. How hard do you dig in with the pick? [/b]

A fair bit & certainly louder than fingers. I roll back the volume knob to compensate.

[b]2. What are your favourite pick guages and materials? [/b]

I used to say heavy gauge and something grippy but I rarely play with a pick these days. Certainly heavier but I don't worry if it's only .75mm these days and anything is fine.

[b]3. How hard do you grip the pick and how flexible are your finger and thumb?[/b]

I don't try and leave indents but a fairly firm grip is ok.

[b]4. For funkier lines, how much palm muting do you use?[/b]

My strings are muted under the bridge with foam and I have ashtray covers on so don't use this technique

[Fat Rich]

Thanks for all the interesting replies, will go pick shopping as soon as I can.

So far it seems that most people are holding the pick firmly whereas I've sometimes been holding it looser like a drummer holds a drumstick. Probably why my timing was getting really sloppy although I haven't started speeding up through songs yet.

Will try all your tips on palm muting and let you know how I get on.

Cheers!

[Clarky]

Can I just add that the 'best' thickness of the pick and speed of playing will depend on how you pick. Guys who use strong forearm and wrist movements to pick from my observation tend to prefer thicker picks. I played in a fast metal band and a fast punk band but I get on much better with a flexible pick as I seem to use more finger and wrist movement when picking whereas a heavy gauge pick 'chokes' or jams on the strings with me.

I use Alien medium/ thin picks ( the glow in the dark ones with an Alien face on them ). I also like the jointed pick that Wayne mentioned above.

The only downside to a thin pick I have found is that as they heat up during a gig between your fingers they get softer and softer so I always have a fresh one in my back pocket just in case

Edited December 10, 2010 by Clarky

[bassbloke]

[quote name='Clarky' post='1054395' date='Dec 10 2010, 07:08 PM']Can I just add that the 'best' thickness of the pick and speed of playing will depend on how you pick. Guys who use strong forearm and wrist movements to pick from my observation tend to prefer thicker picks. I played in a fast metal band and a fast punk band but I get on much better with a flexible pick as I seem to use more finger and wrist movement when picking whereas a heavy gauge pick 'chokes' or jams on the strings with me.

I use Alien medium/ thin picks ( the glow in the dark ones with an Alien face on them ). I also like the jointed pick that Wayne mentioned above.

The only downside to a thin pick I have found is that as they heat up during a gig between your fingers they get softer and softer so I always have a fresh one in my back pocket just in case[/quote]

I opted for the old trick of slightly loosening a scratchplate screw and wedging a couple of spares in the gap.

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='bassbloke' post='1054419' date='Dec 10 2010, 07:29 PM']I opted for the old trick of slightly loosening a scratchplate screw and wedging a couple of spares in the gap.[/quote]
I don't have a scratchplate, but this method seems to work:



It ought to work on any bridge with fairly chunky saddles, but probably not on the Fender BBOT.

Pete.

[bobbass4k]

I think a good bassist should be fluent in fingers and pick, fingers purists are just as bad to me as people who only play with a pick.

It may just be me, but they're completely different techniques and sound. If I pick up a pick and just noodle, I play completely different stuff than if I noodle with fingers. I'm finding myself playing with a pick more and more lately, a big part of it too is feel. For fast, chuggy rock on one or two strings I much prefer a pick, it just feels better, I feel more free to rock out a bit, I can wave my picking hand around like an idiot and it feels more energetic. For slow, groovy stuff, or stuff that requires a lot of right hand movement, fingers are the only way to go.

My pick of choice is Dunlop JazzIII, the black ones. I prefer the feel of tortex but the sound of nylon can't be beat for me.

[RussFM]

I play 0.73 Dunlops, light grip high up in my country band, tighter grip lower down in my punk band. Works well for me and allows me to play a variety of tones in my country band.

[Mog]

[quote name='bobbass4k' post='1054549' date='Dec 10 2010, 09:58 PM']I think a good bassist should be fluent in fingers and pick, fingers purists are just as bad to me as people who only play with a pick.

It may just be me, but they're completely different techniques and sound.[/quote]
Well said that man.

[warwickhunt]

+1 to most of the above and don't forget that whatever guitarists can do with a pic, bassists can do it better; try pinched harmonics with a pick... it sounds mint and really messes with your guitarists head!

[Doddy]

When I use a pick I usually use either Dunlops 1.14mm ( I think) or Ibanez Steve Vai model. I tend to palm mute a lot because I really dig the sound,although I can just lift my slightly to make the sound more open. I tend to dig in quite a bit,but I don't grip too tightly-just enough so that I don't drop it.

[King Tut]

Thanks for this thread. Playing in a Floyd tribute I've got most of the sound right but playing fingerstyle - some of the songs haven't had the right attack. We recently played a gig where the keyboard player was having trouble picking up the tempo on 'sheep' so at the next gig i played it with a plec to make the bass cut through more - what a revelation!

I'm following this thread with interest now - and learning loads - thanks peeps!

[Soloshchenko]

Some recent covers my band have been doing have got me into playing with a pick. Try playing "Ceremony" by Joy Division finger style and it just sounds awful. I used to be a finger style snob but I'm certainly converting. Picked is just a different sound to me now.

[Clarky]

[quote name='Soloshchenko' post='1054782' date='Dec 11 2010, 10:45 AM']Some recent covers my band have been doing have got me into playing with a pick. Try playing "Ceremony" by Joy Division finger style and it just sounds awful. I used to be a finger style snob but I'm certainly converting. Picked is just a different sound to me now.[/quote]
Great song and could not be played fingerstyle and sound right. In fact I use this song to see if I have set up a bass properly as the intonation will be out if the bridge isn't bang on and the strings will buzz to b*ggery if the truss rod isn't right