Peavey tour 450 head

[Al Heeley]

Having played with a little Trace elliot stack at our local practice rooms I have to conclude my Peavel Tour 450 head is not [i]that[/i] loud.
I'm driving 2 8 ohm hartke cabs - one is a 4 x 10, the other is a 1 x 15. the Tour 450 is 450W into 4 ohms. Now I have input gain on 3/4 (thats 75%, not 3-4) and master vol on about 75% and thats as loud as it goes to get the red limiter light starting to come ini when I hit the E string hard. I'm keeping up with the rest of the band, an energetic punk/rock bunch but there's little if any headroom left.
I can't help feeling there should be more. When I'm playing the Trace its only on 3 and there's loads of headroom, it makes your guts shake.
Is it the amp head or is it the cabs? (or a bit of both)

[Moos3h]

Try it without the 1x15" - I've had very bad results mixing a 4x10" and a 1x15" before

[icastle]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='1057505' date='Dec 13 2010, 04:57 PM']Having played with a little Trace elliot stack at our local practice rooms I have to conclude my Peavel Tour 450 head is not [i]that[/i] loud.
I'm driving 2 8 ohm hartke cabs - one is a 4 x 10, the other is a 1 x 15. the Tour 450 is 450W into 4 ohms. Now I have input gain on 3/4 (thats 75%, not 3-4) and master vol on about 75% and thats as loud as it goes to get the red limiter light starting to come ini when I hit the E string hard. I'm keeping up with the rest of the band, an energetic punk/rock bunch but there's little if any headroom left.
I can't help feeling there should be more. When I'm playing the Trace its only on 3 and there's loads of headroom, it makes your guts shake.
Is it the amp head or is it the cabs? (or a bit of both)[/quote]

Are you running a lead from the amp to the 4x10 and then looping out of that to the 1x15 or are you running two leads from the amp to the individual cabs?

I use a Tour 750 with a 1x15 and a 2x10 and I noticed a marked difference when I sat down and made two seperate leads instead of 'looping'.

[ironside1966]

Some manufactures ramp all the volume at the front of the pot so people think it’s louder.

[icastle]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='1057612' date='Dec 13 2010, 06:23 PM']Some manufactures ramp all the volume at the front of the pot so people think it’s louder.[/quote]

Yes.
Line6 do that but my Peavey seems pretty linear...

[Al Heeley]

Running it without the 1 x 15 takes away quite a lot of the 'Oomph'. Was playing it last night with just the 4 x 10 and it only just held it's own, whereas I feel I should be easily able to keep up with the 2 guitarists - one has Mesa dual rec head and 2 x 12 cab which is very potent, the other has a 100w marshall head and 4 x 12 cab.
I've tried running the cabs in a chain as well as individually fed from the amps 2 outputs but my logic says it should make no difference.
[quote]I use a Tour 750 with a 1x15 and a 2x10 and I noticed a marked difference when I sat down and made two seperate leads instead of 'looping'.[/quote]
Are you saying the vol/power is greater with separate leads out to each cab?

Edited December 13, 2010 by Al Heeley

[Chopthebass]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='1057704' date='Dec 13 2010, 08:31 PM']Are you saying the vol/power is greater with separate leads out to each cab?[/quote]

It shouldn't make any difference. The speaker sockets on the amp are wired in parallel just like the ones on the cabs, so the end impedance is the same whichever way you go.

[icastle]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='1057704' date='Dec 13 2010, 07:31 PM']Running it without the 1 x 15 takes away quite a lot of the 'Oomph'. Was playing it last night with just the 4 x 10 and it only just held it's own, whereas I feel I should be easily able to keep up with the 2 guitarists - one has Mesa dual rec head and 2 x 12 cab which is very potent, the other has a 100w marshall head and 4 x 12 cab.
I've tried running the cabs in a chain as well as individually fed from the amps 2 outputs but my logic says it should make no difference.

Are you saying the vol/power is greater with separate leads out to each cab?[/quote]

I've been trawling the internet trying to find a schematic to get rid of the brain itch I've got about this.

Now - before everyone screams that I'm totally wrong, this is working from a vague memory and may or may not be right (I am a man who can't remember what he had for dinner last night after all!).

I seem to recall seeing somewhere a report that reckoned that the amp was setup in such a way that it would only deliver the full 450W into a 4Ω load if both sockets were utilised.
I certainly seemed to have a much better result using both sockets instead of daisy chaining.

If you want to know for certain then I can thoroughly recommend calling their UK Service Centre in Corby - 01536 461234 - what those guys don't know about their equipment is not worth knowing!

[dincz]

[quote name='Chopthebass' post='1057739' date='Dec 13 2010, 08:58 PM']It shouldn't make any difference. The speaker sockets on the amp are wired in parallel just like the ones on the cabs, so the end impedance is the same whichever way you go.[/quote]

Unless the gauge of the speaker cable isn't up to the job, in which case you'd lose power in the resistance of the cable.

[icastle]

[quote name='Chopthebass' post='1057739' date='Dec 13 2010, 07:58 PM']It shouldn't make any difference. The speaker sockets on the amp are wired in parallel just like the ones on the cabs, so the end impedance is the same whichever way you go.[/quote]

The speaker socket on my old Hartke 4x10 disagrees
If I run the cable from the amp into the Speaker socket then it's just fine.
If I run the cable into the "Extension Speaker" socket then it really sounds horrid.
Have meant to take it apart and see why but haven't got round to it as it's only a rehearsal cab.

[dan670844]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='1057612' date='Dec 13 2010, 06:23 PM']Some manufactures ramp all the volume at the front of the pot so people think it’s louder.[/quote]


Yep Trace to do that! Dude turn it up to 3.5 4! she doesn't go any louder!

[Al Heeley]

On both cabs its true, one jack socket is labelled 8 ohm, the other is labelled 'Extension'.
I've never tested to see if there's any difference between them, my logic again would say there should not be, but I'm intrigued now and there's a screwdriver in the drawer.....

[icastle]

[quote name='dan670844' post='1057906' date='Dec 13 2010, 09:57 PM']Yep Trace to do that! Dude turn it up to 3.5 4! she doesn't go any louder![/quote]

Seems quite common.

From the Line6 Support Site:

Q: My master volume has almost no change past 6?

A: This is due to the volume pot installed on all Line 6 amplifiers. A solution to this would be to replace it with an "audio" pot, but this modification wouldn't make it louder - just smoother. Line 6 originally installed audio pots on the AXSYS, but players didn't like them because they made the amp feel "wimpy". Players also did not like the fact that they had to turn the amp up to about 4-5 before it would start "happening" and 7-8 on the gig. Even though there was still a good amount of headroom, player feedback was that they preferred the amplifier with the traditional volume pot, so that is the style used with Line 6 amplifiers.

[icastle]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='1057917' date='Dec 13 2010, 10:03 PM']On both cabs its true, one jack socket is labelled 8 ohm, the other is labelled 'Extension'.
I've never tested to see if there's any difference between them, my logic again would say there should not be, but I'm intrigued now and there's a screwdriver in the drawer.....[/quote]

You're a man after me own toolkit!

I'm guessing some sort of filter or a crude crossover is sat in there somewhere - the cab I have over at the rehearsal studio is a Hartke VX410.

[Al Heeley]

Having just taken off the rear jack panel the 2 sockets are wired together tip to tip, sleeve to sleeve, so there is no other circuitry involved - no horn so no crossover, etc. The wires from the 2 jack sockets go straight to the speaker terminals. This is the 1x15 cab I'm talking about - the 4 x 10 is trapped in the boot of my car but again no horn so should have no crossover circuit in it. It will make no difference whatsoever whichever socket you plug into, unless one of your wires has come unsoldered creating a bad joint. This would make sense otherwise surely Hartke would stipulate in the tech brochure that you must plug into the primary input socket, or something to that effect.
Back to square one. My Tour 450 head doesn't seem to be very loud for a 450 watt into 4 ohm amp.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Al Heeley

[icastle]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='1057930' date='Dec 13 2010, 10:11 PM']Having just taken off the rear jack panel the 2 sockets are wired together tip to tip, sleeve to sleeve, so there is no other circuitry involved - no horn so no crossover, etc. The wires from the 2 jack sockets go straight to the speaker terminals. This is the 1x15 cab I'm talking about - the 4 x 10 is trapped in the boot of my car but again no horn so should have no crossover circuit in it. It will make no difference whatsoever whichever socket you plug into, unless one of your wires has come unsoldered creating a bad joint. This would make sense otherwise surely Hartke would stipulate in the tech brochure that you must plug into the primary input socket, or something to that effect.
Back to square one. My Tour 450 head doesn't seem to be very loud for a 450 watt into 4 ohm amp.[/quote]

Ah.
My 4x10 has a horn in it so not a like for like comparison anyway.
I'd give Peavey Tech Support a call - really helpfull bunch of chaps (I have no connection with them by the way - just giving them credit where credit is due!).

[buff]

Until i read your post i didnt realise the tour 450 had a red limiter light, im running mine through a home made cab with a 1x15 black widow speaker and a 2x10 ashdown cab plus a sans amp. Ive never gone much over half way with the volume, and i consider us to be a loud band. Have you tried using the high input and using the bright botton, as this will boost the volume ?

[Al Heeley]

I'm using the high gain input (the upper one) and with my MM 'ray bass which is active. Not used the bright button as the bass is very bright anyway. Do you have the bass cut in or out? that's supposed to roll off frequencies lower than 80Hz, esp for 5 or 6 string basses if your cab can't take the rumble.
If you're boosting signal with a sans amp don't you start to get clipping or distortion into the hi-gain input?
I can alsways try boosting output with one of my Mosfet boost pedals

[icastle]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='1059389' date='Dec 15 2010, 11:14 AM']I'm using the high gain input (the upper one) and with my MM 'ray bass which is active. Not used the bright button as the bass is very bright anyway. Do you have the bass cut in or out? that's supposed to roll off frequencies lower than 80Hz, esp for 5 or 6 string basses if your cab can't take the rumble.
If you're boosting signal with a sans amp don't you start to get clipping or distortion into the hi-gain input?
I can alsways try boosting output with one of my Mosfet boost pedals[/quote]

Try shoving the 'Contour' control to the centre position and make sure you haven't got the EQ bypass button pressed in?

[Al Heeley]

[quote name='icastle' post='1059632' date='Dec 15 2010, 03:20 PM']Try shoving the 'Contour' control to the centre position and make sure you haven't got the EQ bypass button pressed in?[/quote]
I normally set contour at about 1 or 2 o'clock for a bit of mid scoop - the hartke cabs are quite punchy in the mid range. I never bypass the eq. Maybe I should be a bit less precious about getting the red limiter light flashing.

[icastle]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='1059670' date='Dec 15 2010, 03:51 PM']I normally set contour at about 1 or 2 o'clock for a bit of mid scoop - the hartke cabs are quite punchy in the mid range. I never bypass the eq. Maybe I should be a bit less precious about getting the red limiter light flashing.[/quote]

I haven't made mine flash yet but I've a little bit more headroom.
If nothing else it at least proves that the limiter is working and preventing any damage - mine could just be an LED connected to nothing!

[Al Heeley]

Set pre gain and post gain on about 75% (3-o-clock), bass vol on max, plugged into hi gain input then play some slap on the E string. See if the limiter lights up!

[icastle]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='1060669' date='Dec 16 2010, 03:37 PM']Set pre gain and post gain on about 75% (3-o-clock), bass vol on max, plugged into hi gain input then play some slap on the E string. See if the limiter lights up![/quote]

In this space I'd end up blowing the windows out!

[Mr. Foxen]

Bet the difference between plugging between the cabs and both straight from the amp is that one of the jacks is wired out of phase/polarity.

[Al Heeley]

Mr Foxen may have hit on something, I will test this out at gig volume when we're setting up for the pub gig tomorrow night.
However, it still won't stop me complaining about volume level when I'm only using the 4x10 cab and the amps firing in 300W at 8 ohms.