Fretless Bass

[citymariner]

I'm sure this has been covered before but after a few searches it may well just relight the topic.

I've been looking around on the ebay etc. at fretless basses. I've noticed that some have fret markers (as if the frets have been filled in) and ones where there are just fret markers.

How have people found their first few weeks of playing fretless - is it an exponential learning curve or do you just drop into the run of things?

What are benefits you have found since playing fretless? ie Tone etc.


I look forward to your thoughts!

Josh

[geoffbyrne]

Can't speak for anyone else (obviously!!!) but I just kinda picked it up & played it.

'It' was (at the time) an unlined Vintage Thumb copy in a music shop in Melton.

I bought my Precious (Westone Thunder IIIa Mk2 Fretless Unlined) and have been happy ever since.

It's one of those things, I think, you either get it or you don't. Like 5 strings & narrow string spacing.

I like all of the above.

As for tone etc, there isn't the attack of a fretted, but there's more subtlety. You can play straight or with 'Mwha!' If I use my thumb, there's 'Mwha'.

Once you're used to it, it's like being set free.

G.

Edited December 13, 2010 by geoffbyrne

[fatback]

I found markers helpful when I started. Also, the cheaper end fretlesses do tend to have them, as they're usually defretted (or unfretted?) versions of a standard bass.

The advantage to me was that by using the markers as a reference, i could train my ear more easily. I could play blind and then check where my fingers really were. Other people might use a different tactic.

If you use an unmarked board, get one where the side markers are where the frets would be, not between the fret positions. Or you can move the markers or get a luthier to do it.

Plus of fretless? Control over the sound is way beyond anything you can do with fretted. It really is all in the fingers. Also, you have an infinite number of 'notes' to play with. Nobody says a half tone is the smallest interval you can have.

One minus I never expected is that I ended up not much enjoying playing fretted anymore. I don't even own one now. They feel uncomfortable under the fingers and horribly clumsy. You can, anyway, make a fretless sound acceptably like a fretted for most applications, but not the other way around.

Give it a go. You'll enjoy it ugely, and it'll vastly improve your ears and your fretted playing.

imo, naturally.

Edited December 13, 2010 by fatback

[icastle]

Took me a few weeks before I felt confident enough to gig with it.
I decided to play it safe and bought a JB with markers which was really a complete waste of time because I never look at the damn things anyway!
If I knew then what I know now then I'd have had a wider range of instruments to choose from.

One of the big benefits I got from playing fb was that I found the transition to an EUB was a lot easier than it could have otherwise been.

[citymariner]

Thanks for all your replies.

If nothing else I want it to improve my ears/ fingering.

I'm looking to pick one up cheap and maybe get confident enough to use it in a few rehearsals just to dial in some skills (I am new to bass but have been a gigging guitarist for 12 years).

[ead]

[quote name='fatback' post='1057748' date='Dec 13 2010, 08:07 PM']I found markers helpful when I started. Also, the cheaper end fretlesses do tend to have them, as they're usually defretted (or unfretted?) versions of a standard bass.

The advantage to me was that by using the markers as a reference, i could train my ear more easily. I could play blind and then check where my fingers really were.[/quote]

That's the way I'm learning. I acquired a £90 RBX270F from evilbay (lined fingerboard) that is now being upgraded with some new pups, bridge and a rewire to VVT (from VBT). Never looked back

[Jerry_B]

[quote name='fatback' post='1057748' date='Dec 13 2010, 08:07 PM']If you use an unmarked board, get one where the side markers are where the frets would be, not between the fret positions. Or you can move the markers or get a luthier to do it.[/quote]

But bear in mind that that set-up is a matter of preference. I prefer my fretlesses to have side markers in the same positions as a fretted bass.

Either way, whichever sort you get Citymarnier, if it's unlined or unlined it isn't hard to get the hang of. Just a bit of time and patience as your brain, ears and fingers get used to things. As for tone, it depends on what you want to play - also whether you want to use a plectrum (as I occasionally do). They're like any other bass really, there's no mystique about it - just a bit more care

[bh2]

I have my side markers in the regular position... lately I've taken to using Blick self adhesive labels but they tend to move or fall off after an hour or so...

[fretlessguy]

I have found that most people either love them or find them not to be their cup of tea. Very few are in the middle. I like them quite a bit myself.

It really doesn't matter if they are lined or not, but if you are more comfortable with the lines, then by all means buy one that has them. The fretless will make you depend on your ears more than position markers anyway. Given some time and practice (they do require more practice, at least for me anyway) you will discover they are quite exprssive, especially slower ballad type tunes. For me, the effort was worth it. I enjoy playing them.

I use both rounds and flats on my various fretlesses for different styles of music. I recently put a set of GHS tapewounds on my 5 string fretless, and it has opened up even more possibilities.

I wish you well in your new adventures in fretlessing.

Doug

[Martin E]

Fretless basses are great – I've been playing mine since I made it in the 80's. (Bought the neck, carved the body)

My neck is unlined and has the side dots where the frets should be – which works for me and made sense when starting out.
Then again I'm just an average player and the dusty end of the neck will always be a challenge. I think unmarked necks look cool but probably some lines would help up there!

Going from fretted to fretless was fairly painless – the geat 'leap of faith' is playing that first gig on fretless particularly on a dark stage.

I would spend some time finding the right instrument (not necessarily expensive). The fretless sound is elusive and the instrument has to be well set up. I use light gauge roundwounds and the resulting action giving that wonderful mwah is very low indeed which is another plus.

Good luck.

[fatback]

[quote name='Martin E' post='1060518' date='Dec 16 2010, 12:49 PM']Going from fretted to fretless was fairly painless – the geat 'leap of faith' is playing that first gig on fretless particularly on a dark stage.[/quote]

That's where decent sidemarkers really come in. You can put little dabs of fluorescent paint on (I used the end of the innards of a biro to dab them on. Quite neat.)

They're a huge help if it's dark and you you can't hear yourself too well. You need to practice paying attention to the markers not the lines. If you do that, the transition to an unmarked board is easy.

I would shift those markers to the right places though. It allows for very quick adjustments if you can;t hear or you've been leaping about more than is wise for a fretless player

[patch006]

I love the sound of fretless, just go for it and start playing. I started with playing along with all the tunes that I have played over the years to get the hang of not needing to look at it.
Then I looked at a few awesome fretless players work like Bakithi Kumalo (Paul simon Gracelands) and learnt those tunes. I am now using fretless for a few numbers in the set.
I am lucky enough to have a couple of fretless, streamer 5 and a custom schwable 4 made in germany which is lush see pics.

Edited December 17, 2010 by patch006

[MattM]

I'm similar to the guys above, had been playing fretted for over 20 years, always fancied giving fretless a go, got a decent fretless 'Ray a couple of years back and the whole fretless thing has totally liberated my playing, so much so that I never pick up my fretted bass these days (hence why its for sale on the Corner). As someone said, you can pretty much do everything on a fretless you can on a fretted (except maybe hardcore slapping), however the freedom of expression, and just sheer fun of fretless is great. A note of caution, some folks try it and just dont get on with it, but if there's a small chance you could get as much a blast out of it as I (and many others) have, then surely worth a go?

[zigmondo]

Some excellent responses, with which I do concur.
Citymariner, I notice you are a guitarist, and as such you are well-used to being able to change the texture of a note by glissando, say, or vibrato. As primarily a guitarist myself, I can safely say that I find fretless bass to be liberating and creative, whilst needing much more engagement and care than with a fretted bass. In gigging terms, my experience is that good foldback or monitoring is of the essence, as so many small adjustments are needed on the fly. This necessary attentiveness translates itself to having to develop more nimbly aware fingers, that can slide or disengage or apply the subtle pressures needed to get the most from the bass.
Within a few weeks of getting a fretless, I have fallen in love with it, counting it really as a new and different instrument rather than just a bass without frets. Sadly, I quite understand fatback's observation above: a fretted bass could feel a little unresponsive as one gets back into the saddle...and yet this is just when one can learn to oversome this by developing different right hand attacks.
I was very blessed in that I bought my first fretless from one of our fellow Basschatters for £150. It is the "Jaco-alike" from Vintage. Though I've subsequently upgraded mine with Wizard 64 p/ups and 250k log pots(the stock models have 500k linear), the stock model is excellent, and I'd certainly and unreservedly recommend it as a huge amount of fretless bass for the money. It's the VJ96MRJP, if I've got that right, and even at full whack price it's a belter.
Every best success my man!