using 2 amps!

[4-string-thing]

Ok, I've decided to retire my old Acoustic head from gigging, its 30 years old, after all.

I used my Ashdown mag 300w head into my Acoustic 2x15 cab for saturdays gig and got some nice comments about my sound.

Problem is, I had to run it almost flat out to compete with our 2 power mad geetards and a powerful drummer.

So, I also own a stereo power amp, 200w a side and am thinking about using the Ashdown and this power amp together. The Ashdown into the 2x15 and the power amp into two 1x15 cabs I have. My question is this:

Whats the best way of getting a signal into the power amp? Using the line/tuner out for one channel and the fx out for the other? Or is it ok to split the signal from the line out using a little jack plug into 2 jack socket adapter?

If I decide to do this, has anyone removed an Ashdown head from its case and rack mounted it? If so, how easy/hard is it?

Cheers!

[icastle]

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='1057848' date='Dec 13 2010, 09:19 PM']Ok, I've decided to retire my old Acoustic head from gigging, its 30 years old, after all.

I used my Ashdown mag 300w head into my Acoustic 2x15 cab for saturdays gig and got some nice comments about my sound.

Problem is, I had to run it almost flat out to compete with our 2 power mad geetards and a powerful drummer.

So, I also own a stereo power amp, 200w a side and am thinking about using the Ashdown and this power amp together. The Ashdown into the 2x15 and the power amp into two 1x15 cabs I have. My question is this:

Whats the best way of getting a signal into the power amp? Using the line/tuner out for one channel and the fx out for the other? Or is it ok to split the signal from the line out using a little jack plug into 2 jack socket adapter?

If I decide to do this, has anyone removed an Ashdown head from its case and rack mounted it? If so, how easy/hard is it?

Cheers![/quote]

I wouldn't go down the jack splitter route - although it would split the input signal and send it off to the two amps it'll also work in reverse and link the two amp inputs directly to each other.
I'd be more tempted to try the line out socket as a safer option.

As for rack mounting the amp, looking at the pics Ashdown do a 300R version which just has an elongated front plate over the 300 version - a couple of 2U rack ears and some sympathetic metalwork should do the trick!

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='icastle' post='1057858' date='Dec 13 2010, 09:31 PM']I wouldn't go down the jack splitter route - although it would split the input signal and send it off to the two amps it'll also work in reverse and link the two amp inputs directly to each other.
I'd be more tempted to try the line out socket as a safer option.

As for rack mounting the amp, looking at the pics Ashdown do a 300R version which just has an elongated front plate over the 300 version - a couple of 2U rack ears and some sympathetic metalwork should do the trick![/quote]

I was thinking of splitting the output from the line out, is this not a good idea? The power amp is not bridgable, so I would want to use both channels as well as the MAG. I suppose I could use the DI output for one channel and the line out for the other?

[Mr. Foxen]

Not sure there'll be enough juice in the outs from the Ashdown to run a power amp without a preamp. Getting a pre will probably solve your two sides issue too, if you pick the right one, only need a really basic job to bump up the tuner out signal to a suitable level.

[icastle]

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='1057881' date='Dec 13 2010, 09:44 PM']I was thinking of splitting the output from the line out, is this not a good idea? The power amp is not bridgable, so I would want to use both channels as well as the MAG. I suppose I could use the DI output for one channel and the line out for the other?[/quote]

Problem is that you're trying to get amps that were designed for two different purposes to do the same job.
Something like this [url="http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DI20.aspx"]http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DI20.aspx[/url] would do the job though (was the first one I found and there are posher ones on the market!)

[dmccombe7]

Might be worth trying the Ashdown into the 2off 15's and thereby reducing load from 8 ohm to 4 ohm and subsequently more power.
Using the one 2x15 cab will more than likely be an 8 ohm cab which I think reduces Ashdown MAG 300 output.

I've used a combination of Warwick Line-out to Ashdown MAG combo effects IN to pretty good effect using 2x10 and 1x15 cabs. This allowed me to control both amp volumes from Warwick master.
Not sure if this is correct way and was originally a trial based on same issue you have. Guitarist and drummer a bit too loud for the MAG on its own.

Hope that helps a bit

Dave

[bumnote]

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='1057848' date='Dec 13 2010, 09:19 PM']Ok, I've decided to retire my old Acoustic head from gigging, its 30 years old, after all.



Cheers![/quote]


Oh Oh Oh Oh you philistine

[Dood]

Can't help thinking that it's all sounding far to complicated for what it actually is!

Ok, it's actually very simple and I have one question about the power amp. Does it have a 'parallel' or 'link' switch? Most that I have owned had such. (Not 'bridge, this is not the same) The switch allows one input (say input channel A) to also be fed to the second input as well using an internal connection.

If it does, then do this>

Bass > Ashdown > 2x15

Ashdown Line out OR Send Effect socket > Channel A power amp input

Set power amp to Parallel

Power amp output A > 1st 1x15

Power amp output B > 2nd 1x15


By usuing the line out or send effects you will be getting all of you post EQ a nd functions added to the sound going out to the power amp. If you use the tuner out - that is ONLY a buffered signal from your bass. The effects loop of you amp splits the preamp section and the poweramp section - so another reason for using the send effects output is that it connects all of the power amps safely at the same point in the signal chain. You can then use the volume controls on each to balance the levels between the cabinets - which is ideal if for example one of the 1x15's is not as sensitive as the others.

Don't worry about bi-amping or anything like that - there's no point, unless you think it sounds nice, but from an efficiency point of view - well.. I'm sure Bill F or Alex C's multitude of thread posts in the past will bare this out.

Keep it simple.

[lemmywinks]

Or, rather than cart all that gear around and go to all that trouble rigging it up, why not just flog it all and buy one capable, loud, efficient rig?

These days a decent head with one sensitive cab (two tops) will shift enough to play with the loudest of drummers. Also tell you're guitarists to turn down!


Just my2p


EDIT: Poor spelling and grammar, tsk!

Edited December 15, 2010 by lemmywinks

[algmusic]

NEW RIG. Sounds like

[dincz]

Any 2 channel power amp is bridgeable with the addition of some very basic electronics. A competent tech should be able to add the necessary phase inverter for next to nothing.

There's a kit here for ₤8.25:
[url="http://www.jaycar.co.uk/productView.asp?ID=KC5469&keywords=KC5469&form=KEYWORD"]http://www.jaycar.co.uk/productView.asp?ID...mp;form=KEYWORD[/url]

[umph]

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='1057848' date='Dec 13 2010, 09:19 PM']Ok, I've decided to retire my old Acoustic head from gigging, its 30 years old, after all.

I used my Ashdown mag 300w head into my Acoustic 2x15 cab for saturdays gig and got some nice comments about my sound.

Problem is, I had to run it almost flat out to compete with our 2 power mad geetards and a powerful drummer.

So, I also own a stereo power amp, 200w a side and am thinking about using the Ashdown and this power amp together. The Ashdown into the 2x15 and the power amp into two 1x15 cabs I have. My question is this:

Whats the best way of getting a signal into the power amp? Using the line/tuner out for one channel and the fx out for the other? Or is it ok to split the signal from the line out using a little jack plug into 2 jack socket adapter?

If I decide to do this, has anyone removed an Ashdown head from its case and rack mounted it? If so, how easy/hard is it?

Cheers![/quote]

i'd recomend respeakering the acoustic 215, those cabs are hugely ineffiecent in my experience and new speakers would work wonders for them!

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='dmccombe7' post='1059509' date='Dec 15 2010, 01:23 PM']Might be worth trying the Ashdown into the 2off 15's and thereby reducing load from 8 ohm to 4 ohm and subsequently more power.
Using the one 2x15 cab will more than likely be an 8 ohm cab which I think reduces Ashdown MAG 300 output.

I've used a combination of Warwick Line-out to Ashdown MAG combo effects IN to pretty good effect using 2x10 and 1x15 cabs. This allowed me to control both amp volumes from Warwick master.
Not sure if this is correct way and was originally a trial based on same issue you have. Guitarist and drummer a bit too loud for the MAG on its own.

Hope that helps a bit

Dave[/quote]

The Acoustic cab is 4 ohm, and the other cabs I have are 8 ohm 1x15's, so 4 ohms when used together.

The problem is, our guitarists both have 200w Blackstar valve heads and no concept of turning it down!

The Ashdown on its own is just not enough, I've thought of getting another one and using the drivers from the 1x15's for another 2x15, thus using 2 Ashdown heads and 4 15" drivers! But, as I already own a 200w per channel power amp, I'm basically trying to use what I have rather than buying yet more gear!

[4-string-thing]

I had considered buying a more powerful head, more efficient speakers etc but to be honest, I was being a cheapskate and trying to use stuff I already have!

The Power amp I have is a very basic Thomann job, so I don't think it has a parallel switch or anything.

Keep the suggestions coming though chaps!

[Dood]

[quote name='dincz' post='1059826' date='Dec 15 2010, 06:21 PM']Any 2 channel power amp is bridgeable with the addition of some very basic electronics. A competent tech should be able to add the necessary phase inverter for next to nothing.

There's a kit here for ₤8.25:
[url="http://www.jaycar.co.uk/productView.asp?ID=KC5469&keywords=KC5469&form=KEYWORD"]http://www.jaycar.co.uk/productView.asp?ID...mp;form=KEYWORD[/url][/quote]


Not necessarily, for example D Class and H Class amplifiers. There are some whose individual channels are bridged already too, but I haven't seen any new versions of those for a while. Maybe not cost effective!

[Dood]

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='1059864' date='Dec 15 2010, 06:49 PM']The problem is, our guitarists both have 200w Blackstar valve heads and no concept of turning it down!

Keep the suggestions coming though chaps![/quote]


Hmmm... ditch the guitarists. Is it any wonder us bass players have so many back problems having to lug around twice as much gear as our guitar counterparts just to be heard, because they are a. Selfish b. Stupid C. Incapable of compromise. Any guitarist worth his weight in **** understands the importance of calving out his space in the spectrums of frequency AND amplitude.

[dincz]

[quote name='dood' post='1059878' date='Dec 15 2010, 07:59 PM']Not necessarily, for example D Class and H Class amplifiers. There are some whose individual channels are bridged already too, but I haven't seen any new versions of those for a while. Maybe not cost effective![/quote]

Oops, I must have dozed off for the past 15 years

OK, foot now out of mouth.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='dood' post='1059889' date='Dec 15 2010, 07:05 PM']Hmmm... ditch the guitarists. Is it any wonder us bass players have so many back problems having to lug around twice as much gear as our guitar counterparts just to be heard, because they are a. Selfish b. Stupid C. Incapable of compromise. Any guitarist worth his weight in **** understands the importance of calving out his space in the spectrums of frequency AND amplitude.[/quote]


+1 Nothing more annoying than "musicians" who insist on chasing their rockstar dreams by turning their new toys up too loud. Unless you're playing Wembley then a 10-30w valve combo is more than loud enough. Our old guitarist played a huge ballroom with an Orange Rocker 30

Maybe ask them if they'll buy you a few pairs of fitted earplugs costing a few hundred each every year to compensate?

It may seem like you're being a killjoy but seriuously, tell them to use the knob marked "volume" in a counter clockwise direction for once. If they can't get "their sound" at lower volumes then they've bought the wrong kit, not you

[ziggydolphinboy]

mate simple solution

get a trace elliot 400/350/600 smx head and you wont need anythin else mate,
there are two trace power amps on ebay at the moment (they ahev been off and on like yo yos )so ireckon you could offer the seller a good deal.!!!!!!

i willl be running two trace heads in tandem in the new year!!!!!!!

[Dood]

[quote name='dincz' post='1059913' date='Dec 15 2010, 07:23 PM']Oops, I must have dozed off for the past 15 years

OK, foot now out of mouth.[/quote]


Nawwww!! It's alreet! *pats dincz on the back* don'cha worry about it! I remember when all this 'ere were just fields *Dvorák's "New World" Symphony playing in the background*

[dincz]

[quote name='dood' post='1059925' date='Dec 15 2010, 08:40 PM']*Dvorák's "New World" Symphony playing in the background*[/quote]

Thanks for that. I'm actually in Janáček territory - here:
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW5fRySjgq4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW5fRySjgq4[/url]

OK, back on topic!

[thinman]

I'll echo an earlier sentiment - get the geetards to turn down and get a PA. With all those 15" cabs you may as well substitute the carriage space for a PA.

It IS usually possible to educate a gueetard to turn down. Mic up their cab, turn them up loud and get them to go out front. When they're happy it's loud secretly turn them down again.

[bumnote]

Having taken the mick a while back lets be a bit more serious

Why are you retiring the 220, did that normally keep up volume wise? or did you struggle with that.

Legendary though the acoustic amp is, I would be surprised if that would keep up where a mag wouldnt.

If you seriously need to start going out with the mag through the 402 and a stereo amp driving 2 additional 1 x15s, I would question the volume levels you are playing at.

I certainly wouldnt want to carry it all. If your guitards are using 200 w blackstars, I suspect even my 370 would struggle.

I would tend to agree with Umph , you would probably get more sound cheaper by doing something about your existing speakers, but I dont know how efficient the 402 cabinet design is, and the 404 isn't wonderful.

Sorry both lets get the name right

Edited December 16, 2010 by bumnote

[umph]

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='1059873' date='Dec 15 2010, 06:55 PM']I had considered buying a more powerful head, more efficient speakers etc but to be honest, I was being a cheapskate and trying to use stuff I already have!

The Power amp I have is a very basic Thomann job, so I don't think it has a parallel switch or anything.

Keep the suggestions coming though chaps![/quote]

seriously i've got a 1X15 with a basslite that blew the acoustic out of the water volume wise, so if you put a pair of those into your cab it'll turn into an absolute monster and destroy your guitars volume wise, you may need to retune the port though for best results

[4-string-thing]

Bitten the bullet and bought a MAG600, which I intend to use (for now) into the pair of 15" cabs. The intention is to build a replica cab of the Acoustic and use the drivers from these. For bigger gigs I'll use both amps and both cabs. Then next year, I'll be looking at a Barefaced!