JTUK Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 [quote name='icastle' post='1062436' date='Dec 18 2010, 01:27 PM']Stacked on top of each other, two 4x10s don't take up any more floor space than one 4x10 - unless the stage area is so small that you're using shelving to slot the band members into [/quote] It has nothing to do with space and everything to do with overkill and stupid thinking. The stage is small...the venue is small and people cart in way too much gear. You just know that 99% of the time, these people haven't got a clue and the the band mix will end up sounding awful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1063016' date='Dec 18 2010, 10:07 PM']There's two lines of thought there. One is the way the producer wants it to sound, the other is true to the band's live sound. Ent made it no secret about how he felt about the butchering of his tone, which was accomplished by low passing so severe that his RotoSounds ended up sounding like tape-wound LaBellas. It had nothing to do with modes of playback, everything to do with conformity, and most odd that Ent put up with it.[/quote] I can see where you're coming from but a 45-year-old recording from the dawn of the roundwound, multitracking and close-mic-ing era is hardly representative of 'most' record producers I think they got with the program pretty quickly, and they were pretty good at getting acoustic jazz recordings down by the late 50s. This true live sound, would be the same one that was on the typical low-xmax, undersized box pre TS speakers used by most artists of the day? With the need to be loud enough that's gotta be at least as limiting as the recording aspects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 [quote name='LawrenceH' post='1063054' date='Dec 18 2010, 06:02 PM']I can see where you're coming from but a 45-year-old recording from the dawn of the roundwound, multitracking and close-mic-ing era is hardly representative of 'most' record producers I think they got with the program pretty quickly, and they were pretty good at getting acoustic jazz recordings down by the late 50s. This true live sound, would be the same one that was on the typical low-xmax, undersized box pre TS speakers used by most artists of the day? With the need to be loud enough that's gotta be at least as limiting as the recording aspects.[/quote]All I know is that, with the exception of 'My Generation' where the bass solo would have been pretty silly sounding low-passed at 1kHz, the tone heard on 'The Who' recordings bore no resemblance to the Ox live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 Entwhistle sounded very poor on TV recordings and more often than not through those modern basses, With all the gear he could have, you would have to think he wanted it like that..but the sound was not good ( woeful ) to my ears on a TV/DVD recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1063147' date='Dec 19 2010, 01:09 AM']....All I know is that, with the exception of 'My Generation' where the bass solo would have been pretty silly sounding low-passed at 1kHz, the tone heard on 'The Who' recordings bore no resemblance to the Ox live....[/quote] The Who records were produced by Shel Talmy who was known for getting a "live", "exciting" and "edgy" sound. He didn't care about tone, bum notes or "sounding good"! He just wanted "aggressive" and "in your face". I guess he succeeded because I think that's what most people feel when I hear a Who record! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 [quote name='JTUK' post='1063321' date='Dec 19 2010, 05:54 AM']Entwhistle sounded very poor on TV recordings[/quote]As did everyone on TV in those days. I saw him live, so that's my reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1063584' date='Dec 19 2010, 03:04 PM']As did everyone on TV in those days. I saw him live, so that's my reference.[/quote] Maybe... but he still had a sh*te live sound on TV in modern times so that is that out of the window. I'll admit to not being a fan, and also that tone is subjective..up to a point..but there is no way his live recorded sound was not dismal, by any stretch..IMO. Any number of Youtube hits will bring up plenty of examples. As I said, I can only assume that is the way he wanted it to sound... and that is the most damning thing, IMO. FWIW..the best sound he had..IMV..was the period of My Gen and it went all downhill from there. In gtr terms you could argue that Gilmour and Lukather went the mass techno rack route..but both achieved awesome sounds. I don't think anyone could argue they weren't good... What JE was upto..??? who knows..!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted December 19, 2010 Author Share Posted December 19, 2010 The best tone I heard The Ent playing was on the McVicar soundtrack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 [quote]In 1969, The Who released Tommy, (with two contributes from John, "Cousin Kevin" and "Fiddle About", both of which were branded "sick" by the BBC) which put the band firmly in the major league. It also made them all millionaires, which finally allowed John to live the sort of lifestyle he had dreamt about. Once he was able to afford it, one of his passions was collecting bass guitars - at any one time he could have up to 250 of them. This wasn't just a rich man's indulgence - John was always searching for a better tone, and tried every different bass he could get his hands on, trying to find the sound he longed for.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 [quote]Once he was able to afford it, one of his passions was collecting bass guitars - at any one time he could have up to 250 of them. This wasn't just a rich man's indulgence - John was always searching for a better tone, and tried every different bass he could get his hands on, trying to find the sound he longed for.[/quote] Well I reckon that makes him the Godfather of GAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 (edited) I wonder if he had a big influence on how he sounded and was altering how he sounded on the albums then? It would also explain how so many people can claim to own a bass once owned by Entwistle Edited December 19, 2010 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted December 19, 2010 Share Posted December 19, 2010 [quote name='TimR' post='1064127' date='Dec 19 2010, 10:44 PM']It would also explain how so many people can claim to own a bass once owned by Entwistle [/quote] In which case... I have a very rare bass that was never owned by John Entwhistle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 The TV sound thing is particularly challenging as you have very strict requirements for dynamic range and frequency balance. Plenty of bands sound pretty ropey on TV even nowadays (just listen to Glasto highlights!), I wouldn't judge a band's sound based on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 [quote name='Lozz196' post='1060840' date='Dec 16 2010, 10:25 AM']Currently have 2 Ampeg cabs, an SVT 410HLE 8ohm cab, 500 watts RMS, and an Ampeg 210 AV 8ohm cab, 200 watts RMS.[/quote] From what I've heard these specs are derived by simply taking the maximum power the drivers can theoretically handle and multiplying by how many are in the cabinet. In reality the excursion limits of the drivers in a cabinet will be met at much lower power meaning these cabinets can't handle a fraction of what they claim to in the first place. So even if you do match the specs you still have more power than your cabs can handle. Which has been working for me for years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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