If you read 1 thing today, please let it be this...

[Moos3h]

Oh and one thing is really important and perhaps not been mentioned here:

Don't be an arse. If you are lucky enough to get to the stage of being paid to play much then getting on with people and being 'low maintenance' is a sure-fire way of doing well.

I know of one guy who is 10x the bass player I am, but I've had a substantial amount of dep work come my way because I'm far easier to exist with. As daft as it sounds, it's really important. If you're friendly without being creepy, helpful without being opinionated and decisive and driven without being the slightest bit dictatorial then you'll do well - after all, it's not like there aren't LOTS of alternatives out there if someone takes a dislike to you and decides not to put further work your way.

Best of luck - it'll be an exciting journey and the advise you've been given here is great, but always keep perspective and have a few friends around you of the sort that are certain to say when you're being a bell-end. We all need people like that, or we'd all be like Prince.

Cheers,
James

[largo]

I don't think the question about "been laid recently" is such a bad one, being honest. I know a few guys, not musicians but footballers & golfers who were top quality up to 15 or 16 (playing for Scottish school boys and the likes) and then discovered there's more to life than footie & golf, i.e. drink & women and not always in that order, but usually it was. By all means put in the hard work, but live a little as well.

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='Mog' post='1065789' date='Dec 21 2010, 03:39 PM']How so?
What regularly gigging band is going to hire someone who cant play the gig after a certain time, cant do a share of the driving, raises insurance premiums and less face it HAS ABOUT 30 YEARS LESS EXPERIENCE THAN MOST PIT PLAYERS. Unless most pit players, session musicians etc age in dog years most I've met/know are between 30-50 and to take their jobs would require serious talent.
The guy is 15. Has been fed god knows what by a local teacher and expects to walk into a regularly paying job within the music business. Come on lad.
I didn't suggest that he should drop the bass and take up golf or anything. Each point was based on fact.
And just to be clear, if you're response is based on 'personal experience' I dont really give a poop, telling someone to get a proper steady job is not nonesense, its common sense.
Be specific, I'm in nicotine withdrawal and need a rant.[/quote]


Right, He's not said he wants to go straight in there and do the job that the seasoned pro's are doing. He's asking how to get there.

The nonsense i was referring to was[b], "Forget about it for a year or two, Focus on getting laid more., Focus on beer more. & still dont have any type of University/collage qualifications that will actually get you into the situation you want to be in."[/b]

1. Telling him to forget it is stupid advice, if he wants to do it, let him, who are you to tell him to do otherwise.
2. Telling him to concentrate on booze & getting laid. He's going to do that in his own time, whilst studying what he wants to study. it's part of growing up.
3. No qualification is going to get him where he wants to be.


[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1065804' date='Dec 21 2010, 03:46 PM']I wouldn't worry yourself. Mr. brown here is a prime example of what you were talking about earlier, someone who's got somewhere in his hometown, thinks he's the best in the world and needs to be put-down once or twice by a few more experienced pros...[/quote]


Here we go again Mr Edward Himself.
I've already said it once, you think your a big adult and look down on "Young People" & "students". Get over yourself and grow up a little.

Lets not forget that your the guy who commented on Stuart Hamms at bassday.....Saying his timing was bad???




Now, OP

Alot of the replies here are talking about just a general gigging bassist, I'm guessing you want to be more than that, you want to be a [i]working[/i] bassist.

It's going to be a lot of hard work & luck. But, you make your own luck.

I'm done with this thread, theres to many pub bassists that think they know everything.

[Truckstop]

True. You make your own luck, and luck is a healthy mix of Preparation and Opportunity!

Truckstop

[Skol303]

From another thread... but I thought this summed up the whole 'career in music' question very well:

"For the [Uni music course] interview, the killer question for auditionees was, and I paraphrase: "You do of course realise that it is incredibly unlikely you will be able to make a living playing music, even if you get into this course and get the degree. What do you think of that?" "

Props to 'endorka' for this pearl of wisdom.

[mgibson]

Again, thanks for the replies, can I just say that I realise that I am not currently the next Victor Wooten, I realise that I have a mountain to climb and I relise that the chances are that unless I am that one in a million, at some point fall off and hit my head on the way down, however I intend to pick my self up again and start over again and again.

Oh by the way the people who have complemted me have mostly not taught me bass, mainly it was the head of guitar tution in Norfolk and my flute teacher who plays in [url="http://www.destinationswing.com/index.html"]Destination Swing[/url] and other bands.

Oh and I'm partial too gingers and Guinness

[Mog]

[quote name='J.R.Bass' post='1065890' date='Dec 21 2010, 04:37 PM']Right, He's not said he wants to go straight in there and do the job that the seasoned pro's are doing. He's asking how to get there.

The nonsense i was referring to was[b], "Forget about it for a year or two, Focus on getting laid more., Focus on beer more. & still dont have any type of University/collage qualifications that will actually get you into the situation you want to be in."[/b]

1. Telling him to forget it is stupid advice, if he wants to do it, let him, who are you to tell him to do otherwise.
2. Telling him to concentrate on booze & getting laid. He's going to do that in his own time, whilst studying what he wants to study. it's part of growing up.
3. No qualification is going to get him where he wants to be.

Now, OP

Alot of the replies here are talking about just a general gigging bassist, I'm guessing you want to be more than that, you want to be a [i]working[/i] bassist.

It's going to be a lot of hard work & luck. But, you make your own luck.

[b]I'm done with this thread, theres to many pub bassists that think they know everything.[/b][/quote]
1 As I said earlier I never said stop playing altogether.
2 If you cant spot light hearted humour then maybe you should be getting laid and having a pint or two.
3 The last I heard not one top orchestra, productions company etc is going to even look at someone who turns up without 3rd level training. Those days are long gone.

No one has yet stated that they know everything, and if you would like a copy of my cv to be sent to your inbox this particular pub player would be more than happy to start a cock measuring contest. I'd gladly read yours if you care to send it on, IF you are not too busy working that is.

To the OP sorry about the turn this has taken, mostly my fault, but I'll stick to my statements earlier. Theres not a whole lot you can do a 15. Its just the way the world works. Take your time and you'll enjoy it all the more.
Stout yes, gingers no. Jesus you sound more Irish than me!

Edited December 21, 2010 by Mog

[Doddy]

[quote name='Mog' post='1065999' date='Dec 21 2010, 06:31 PM']3 The last I heard not one top orchestra, productions company etc is going to even look at someone who turns up without 3rd level training. Those days are long gone.[/quote]

Just out of interest,I've never known anyone get a non teaching gig because of qualifications. You get the gigs if you can nail the job and have a good attitude. No one cares if you studied at uni or whatever.

[Mog]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1066015' date='Dec 21 2010, 06:44 PM']Just out of interest,I've never known anyone get a non teaching gig because of qualifications. You get the gigs if you can nail the job and have a good attitude. No one cares if you studied at uni or whatever.[/quote]
Unfortunately Doddy thats the way its gone. Granted qualifications alone wont get the job, but then again I never said it would.
The last time I met with Bruno Giuranno and Michael Wolf for lunch they were preping masters graduates before auditions for the National Chamber Orchestra. Thats the mimimum thats expected nowadays apparently.

[wateroftyne]

Another bit of advice to the OP - as some recent posts have demonstrated, always have a sense of humour handy. Too many people forget theirs, and you'll have an instant advantage.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='Mog' post='1065999' date='Dec 21 2010, 06:31 PM']1 As I said earlier I never said stop playing altogether.
2 If you cant spot light hearted humour then maybe you should be getting laid and having a pint or two.
3 The last I heard not one top orchestra, productions company etc is going to even look at someone who turns up without 3rd level training. Those days are long gone.

No one has yet stated that they know everything, and if you would like a copy of my cv to be sent to your inbox this particular pub player would be more than happy to start a cock measuring contest. I'd gladly read yours if you care to send it on, IF you are not too busy working that is.

To the OP sorry about the turn this has taken, mostly my fault, but I'll stick to my statements earlier. Theres not a whole lot you can do a 15. Its just the way the world works. Take your time and you'll enjoy it all the more.
Stout yes, gingers no. Jesus you sound more Irish than me! [/quote]

Lol seriously mate don't even argue with him. As soon as he sets you in his sights for whatever pathetic reason then don't bother reacting, just ignore him. Let him act like a prat and he'll get what's coming to him one day

Edited December 21, 2010 by EdwardHimself

[Bass_Guardian]

Come on folks lets all be pals

I suck make fun of me instead

[risingson]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1066087' date='Dec 21 2010, 08:01 PM']Lol seriously mate don't even argue with him. He's like a spoilt child: give him what he wants and he'll just keep coming back for more. Just try to ignore him and he'll go away...[/quote]

Having read this thread and not yet commenting, I think J.R. Bass has had some interesting and useful advice to give this lad, whereas conversely you seem to be pursuing some kind of agenda. It might be worth noting that your attempts to goad him aren't particularly helpful and take the focus off the crux of the main topic of discussion.

Edited December 21, 2010 by risingson

[steve-soar]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1066087' date='Dec 21 2010, 08:01 PM']Lol seriously mate don't even argue with him. As soon as he sets you in his sights for whatever pathetic reason then don't bother reacting, just ignore him. Let him act like a prat and he'll get what's coming to him one day [/quote]I think you fancy him. Is this some kind of a lover spurned reaction?

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1065035' date='Dec 20 2010, 08:08 PM']Time spent out in the real world gigging & meeting other musicians [i]GREATER THAN[/i] Time spent in bedroom widdling over chord changes [i]EQUALS[/i] success

IMO.[/quote]
As opposed to the imaginary world! I think both are of equal importance. You won't be able to do much gigging in the 'real world' if you've never done any practising in your bedroom.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Lord Sausage' post='1066187' date='Dec 21 2010, 09:31 PM']As opposed to the imaginary world! I think both are of equal importance. You won't be able to do much gigging in the 'real world' if you've never done any practising in your bedroom.[/quote]
I wasn't referring to importance. I was referring to the time spent doing each.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='risingson' post='1066126' date='Dec 21 2010, 08:25 PM']Having read this thread and not yet commenting, I think J.R. Bass has had some interesting and useful advice to give this lad, whereas conversely you seem to be pursuing some kind of agenda. It might be worth noting that your attempts to goad him aren't particularly helpful and take the focus off the crux of the main topic of discussion.[/quote]

well he's done it with me plenty of times. Thought I'd show him what it's like...

[lee650]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1065258' date='Dec 20 2010, 10:54 PM']Can I just make a little comment? In 3 posts,there is reference to being 'grade whatever standard'. I'm sorry,but no. If you have the grade then great-otherwise,you're not.

Now to the OP..... It's great that you are doing stuff at school and that people are saying how good you are. Now,you need to put your name about and get your ass kicked-don't worry,it happens to everyone. Go out and introduce yourself to other musicians,be it in music shops or at jams or gigs or whatever.Some may call you,and then you have to nail the job....which won't always happen. It's very easy to get comfortable and cocky when you are playing with mates,but if you are as serious as you say,you need to play with experienced players who won't always go easy on you because you are young. It happened to me,and it made me a better player.
I know,I'm sounding a bit harsh,but you come across as having typical teenage brashness,which although it has it's place right now,it will come as a huge culture shock if you get out into the music world beyond your school.[/quote]

After 20 years of playing (12 years of which profesionally) i tried to think of something Sage like for the OP and everything that doddy has just said is 100% true so i dont have to think of anything, im retired now with a mundane job, ( i do still play for functions and am dram theatre)and i still remember the 19 year me who was an arrogant little so and so who thought he was "grade 8" standard, i had my ass kicked a lot and im a better musician/human being for it.
At 15 your at the start of your journey and i envy you as i started out with a lot of passion as a youngster and i put i a lot of work, but unfortunately i got side tracked later on by drinking, chasing women, nice food , playstation as a result im not anywhere near the player today as i wanted to be when i started, so you need to keep doing what your doing and OP if you read one thing today read doddys and bilbos posts!!
Enjoy the ride - lee

Edited December 22, 2010 by lee650

[Lo.]

Michael Henderson told me Miles Davis once said to him:

"Remember Michael, you're a f***in' bass player. Don't worry about the top - we got all that"

("we" meaning the rest of the band)

That's what bass playing is to me, and it's the best instrument because you have a part of the spectrum all to yourself, assuming of course your keyboard player is not an arse. It's only about one octave, but it's all yours and all you need to make magic.

Best wishes on your journey. If I had to suggest further study I would start with Ray Brown, James Jamerson, Paul Jackson, Verdine White, Willie Weeks......there's lot's of incredible technical stuff out there as well as these old guys but 'i would always urge you to consider whether it's actually playing bass if it strays away from our sacred ground in the bottom octave. Not saying it's wrong or unmusical, but a lot of it isn't bass IMHO.

[LukeFRC]

i started reading this thread the other day, stopped and some bits in between seem to have got silly so i'll ignore them.

my advice,
always enjoy your music.
love the other instruments around you more than you love the bass. (ie how can your playing help the other instruments sound good)
practice and theory... i wish i knew more!
find a real drummer to play with
and don't be precious, it's fun, so go out there and mess up, form awful bands just for the fun of playing with folk

my first expereince of playing bass in front of people was being stuck up the front of a fairly big church... this is an environment where it's not about the band and the music... which in some ways is nice, but if you mess up there's no escape from it being noticed! it was amazing how much that environment, and making up basslines to songs you've only just heard from a sheet of chords, its amazing how doing that regularly taught me stuff. the right i can do this, how do i make it intresting, what happens if i borrow something from metal or jazz or funk and try and add it in, does that work....

oh and did i say, have fun

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='J.R.Bass' post='1065890' date='Dec 21 2010, 04:37 PM']Here we go again Mr Edward Himself.
...........

Lets not forget that your the guy who commented on Stuart Hamms at bassday.....Saying his timing was bad???[/quote]

Here I was, up to my eyeballs in work, working through the night to meet delivery dates, knackered, got man-flu and then I read this post. Perked me up no end it did!

[Mog]

[quote name='Big_Stu' post='1066381' date='Dec 22 2010, 03:49 AM']Here I was, up to my eyeballs in work, working through the night to meet delivery dates, knackered, got man-flu and then I read this post. Perked me up no end it did![/quote]
Yes mostly my fault I'm afraid. Myself and Jake are talking the matter over via PM and I've no problem with expressing my reasons for my perhaps petulent retort but I'll leave it up to Jake to decide whether to make public the PM I've sent to him stating that reason. As I said I have no problem either way.
I've no idea why a third party entered the fray but thats not something which is in my control and I kept out of the matter. (perhaps my best move of the whole thread )

Again to the OP apologies for the hi-jack. As lee650 said its probably best to listen to the members who are currently in the same situation as you are aiming for.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1065431' date='Dec 21 2010, 02:01 AM']Until you have the grades, then being equivalent is hazy at best, I've been told (by people in the know) that I'd be able to get grade 8 bass with a bit of brushing up, but I'm sure that's not true. People tend to get a bit excited when they see some raw talent (as yours will be after playing for a year at the age of 15) and blurt stuff out that is exaggurated. I don't want to be negative, but if you keep sky high, the fall's gonna hurt when you're going for the same jobs as people who've been playing bass professionally for 20 years.[/quote]
Good point, I consider opinions told to my face to be worthless in most cases. Eavesdropping, now that's where you get the real info

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1066015' date='Dec 21 2010, 10:44 AM']Just out of interest,I've never known anyone get a non teaching gig because of qualifications. You get the gigs if you can nail the job and have a good attitude. No one cares if you studied at uni or whatever.[/quote]
In the Los Angeles scene you never mentioned schooling as that would knock you out before you even get a chance to audition. Many ads would state No BIT grads.

[NickH]

A few things to get sorted which aren't directly related to musical ability, but are really important anyway:

1) Learn to drive and get yourself a reliable set of wheels as soon as you can.
2) Get a Filofax or electronic organiser. Get in the habit of using the contacts list and diary.
3) Learn to keep financial records. Even if it's a handwritten list of expenses and income. Keep receipts and a mileage log for everything.
4) Get, or have available to you at very short notice, a backup set of gear.
5) Be determined, professional, personable, reliable, flexible, and lucky.

Enjoy!