Vintage with a 100w valve head?

[Roland Rock]

Hi,

I currently have a custom 100w all valve head running into a 2x10 cab (I think rated at 600w)
The volume is just about enough for gigging, but I could do with a bit more in reserve.

Looking at the BF website, the vintage looks perfect - recommended for heads as little as 100w, recommended for valve heads, lightweight and with a retro cloth grille too!
My question is, how much more volume would the BF Vintage setup get compared to my current setup?

If you need to know about EQ, it's a simple bass, mid & treble on the amp, but I also play through a DHA VT1EQ preamp pedal which boosts the bass' signal and has a bit more EQ tweaking ability. I play a 70's P bass

thanks

[Roland Rock]

A bit more research leads me to believe that these are discontinued, and second hand ones are like hen's teeth.

[alexclaber]

Indeed they are. We have a selection of large cabs coming out next year though:

Dubster - ska/reggae/dub specific 2x15"
Super Fifteen - full-range 2x15" (two Compacts in one box)
Big Twin - louder and deeper version of the Big One (2x12"+6.5", optional tweeter)
'69er - valve amp specific sealed 6x10" designed to get the original 1969 8x10" sound with greater power handling and improved polar response

[Roland Rock]

Thanks, I'll check them out. I'm hoping that there will be a cloth retro look available.
In your opinion, would a cab bigger than my current one help significantly in the volume stakes?

Edited December 23, 2010 by Roland Rock

[Merton]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1067687' date='Dec 23 2010, 12:24 PM']Super Fifteen - full-range 2x15" (two Compacts in one box)[/quote]
How different from the Vintage is this, just out of curiosity? (No, I am not going to buy one, my next purchase is a Big Twin!!)

[alexclaber]

Not just my opinion, it's fact (with the caveat that sub-par cabs don't count!) Figuring in everything (sensitivity, response, psychoacoustics, etc) I think the '69er is likely to sound about twice as loud as your 2x10" when driven by the same amp. Cloth grill will be a cost option, as steel grill cabs are significantly quicker/easier to build.

[Roland Rock]

Sounds just the ticket. Probably a good job it's not out for a while; I need time to save up and figure out where it's going to live

Many thanks for your help

[Conan]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1067687' date='Dec 23 2010, 12:24 PM']Indeed they are. We have a selection of large cabs coming out next year though:

Super Fifteen - full-range 2x15" (two Compacts in one box)[/quote]

Ooooohh!

[Shockwave]

Hmm if the 69er will be the same size as my vintage i may have to consider it! Though the impedence might be an issue :S

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Shockwave' post='1067787' date='Dec 23 2010, 02:00 PM']Hmm if the 69er will be the same size as my vintage i may have to consider it! Though the impedence might be an issue :S[/quote]

I call dibs on the Vintage.

[Protium]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1067687' date='Dec 23 2010, 12:24 PM']'69er - valve amp specific sealed 6x10" designed to get the original 1969 8x10" sound with greater power handling and improved polar response[/quote]

I was under the impression that 10's don't have a sound, and that 8x10 cabinets were not a good design... Will this be the worlds first vertically aligned 6x10?

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='Protium' post='1068832' date='Dec 24 2010, 04:10 PM']I was under the impression that 10's don't have a sound, and that 8x10 cabinets were not a good design... Will this be the worlds first vertically aligned 6x10?[/quote]

Doubt it, I wouldn't fancy my chances balancing a valve amp on top of a vertical 6x10!

[alexclaber]

10"s don't have 'a sound'. Every speaker ever produced does have 'a sound' because none of them are perfect, but there is no correlation between that sound and the nominal diameter. This will be the first Barefaced model that targets a particular colouration rather than aiming for minimal colouration. It will be a conventional looking 6x10" however it will exhibit the same off-axis response as a single column of 10" speakers because half the speakers in the cab will only produce lower frequencies.

Edited December 24, 2010 by alexclaber

[pete.young]

Well, we tried Merton's with my Burman 100W valve head at one of the bashes and while there are no definitive measurements, it was definitely loud enough!

[quote name='Merton' post='1067720' date='Dec 23 2010, 12:55 PM']How different from the Vintage is this, just out of curiosity? (No, I am not going to buy one, my next purchase is a Big Twin!!)[/quote]

I'd like to know that too.

[pete.young]

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='1068859' date='Dec 24 2010, 05:06 PM']Doubt it, I wouldn't fancy my chances balancing a valve amp on top of a vertical 6x10! [/quote]

Good point, I think it would need to be at least a 6x12"

Edited December 24, 2010 by pete.young

[Shockwave]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1068223' date='Dec 23 2010, 08:37 PM']I call dibs on the Vintage.[/quote]

What the "Gay" Vintage with the Tweeter?

No no, i would want both the cabs to run at the same time, not to replace!

[Protium]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='1068887' date='Dec 24 2010, 06:01 PM']10"s don't have 'a sound'. Every speaker ever produced does have 'a sound' because none of them are perfect, but there is no correlation between that sound and the nominal diameter. This will be the first Barefaced model that targets a particular colouration rather than aiming for minimal colouration. It will be a conventional looking 6x10" however it will exhibit the same off-axis response as a single column of 10" speakers because half the speakers in the cab will only produce lower frequencies.[/quote]

If that's the case, why a 6x10" when you can get the same volume using fewer 12"/15" speakers?

[Conan]

[quote name='Protium' post='1070969' date='Dec 28 2010, 02:16 PM']If that's the case, why a 6x10" when you can get the same volume using fewer 12"/15" speakers?[/quote]

Possibly because he said that he is looking for a particular colouration, and that can only be achieved with speakers of a certain diameter?

Also, there are currently no ten inch speakers used in the BFB range (as far as I am aware) so maybe this new cab is aimed at a very specific target market?

Just guessing...

Edited December 28, 2010 by Conan

[Protium]

[quote name='Conan' post='1070979' date='Dec 28 2010, 02:31 PM']Possibly because he said that he is looking for a particular colouration, and that can only be achieved with speakers of a certain diameter?[/quote]

But specific speaker diameters don't have a sound!

[Conan]

[quote name='Protium' post='1071021' date='Dec 28 2010, 03:28 PM']But specific speaker diameters don't have a sound![/quote]

Maybe not, but do they have a colouration?

[ShergoldSnickers]

[quote name='Protium' post='1071021' date='Dec 28 2010, 03:28 PM']But specific speaker diameters don't have a sound![/quote]
It's probably a case of this particular speaker delivers the colouration required - the fact it's a 10 is neither here nor there, and other 10s, 12s or 15s don't give it. Speculation of course.

[pete.young]

[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' post='1071107' date='Dec 28 2010, 05:05 PM']It's probably a case of this particular speaker delivers the colouration required - the fact it's a 10 is neither here nor there, and other 10s, 12s or 15s don't give it. Speculation of course.[/quote]

Given the comment that 'half the speakers in the cab will only produce lower frequencies' , I'd say it is particular speakers rather than particular speaker.

[Conan]

Ten inch woofers coupled with ten inch tweeters? Sounds good to me!!

Edited December 28, 2010 by Conan

[Merton]

Have Eminence got a 3015 / 3015LF equivalent in 10" diameter? I wonder if that's the sort of direct Mr Claber is heading?....

[alexclaber]

Mr Protium, you're putting 2 and 2 together and making 5!

Statement One: Every speaker driver ever made is imperfect and thus has colouration, which is a product of the numerous distortions inherent to every driver.
Statement Two: These distortions, and the resultant colouration, are not directly related to the nominal diameter of the speaker.

Therefore we can say that every speaker has a sound. And we can also say that that sound is not related to the nominal diameter of the speaker.

The original Ampeg 8x10" contained eight 10" drivers which were essentially guitar drivers. We will get that sound by using a suitable guitar driver, to cover the part of the spectrum where that colouration is critical - note that early Ampeg 8x10"s sound brighter and more open than later ones, and this design aims to match this. The other drivers are mid-bass drivers with greater Vd, so the cab can handle more power and produce bigger clean lows than the early Ampeg 8x10"s. Finally there is a completely unique crossover to split the signal so that the guitar driver is not hit by too much bottom, and so that half the speakers only produce lower frequencies to ensure excellent polar response. And also the speakers, crossover and enclosure have been designed to have a very smooth impedance curve for better coupling with output transformers, which should result in better power output from valve amps (closer to ideal conditions) and longer valve life.

The only similarities to our other cabs is we're sticking with the same thin-wall heavily-braced and pre-stressed construction and the exterior look, and that we're continuing to obsess over polar response. But it's very much a cab with a sound, and hopefully "The Sound" for those who like that sort of thing.