Alembic

[GreeneKing]

When I bought my 1st bass (a Hohner Jack pro headless) there was an old Alembic in the store (the Plymouth Manson's in College Ave - since gone). I lusted after that bass and it was still there when I replaced the Hohner with a Yamaha TRB4 Mk1. Ralph the guy in the shop talked me out of it.

I still have the urge many years later. In terms of a bass where weight isn't an issue what are they like? I hear folk say they they are wonderful instruments and others proclaim them a waste of money.

I'm talking the Stanley Clarke/Mark King and Omega type models not the more conventional product here.

Peter

[alanbass1]

I had an Alembic MK and it was wonderful....except the weight. It was very heavy and that is an issue for me, but if you can stand it they are great instruments with a fantastic sound.

[Clarky]

Without doubt the highest quality instruments I have owned - but had to sell my last one - a Spoiler, one of the more basic models - due to weight (and mine was not one of the heaviest Alembic, at 11 pounds!) The craftsmanship, woodwork, electronics etc were something else. At some point in the future (not immediate) I will own another one if I can find a Spoiler nearer to 9 pounds. I expect lozbass will be along before too long to chip in here as I guess - along with jazzyvee - he owns the most Alembics on BC ...

Edited December 25, 2010 by Clarky

[Chris2112]

I love Alembic basses, the one I had was excellent. I've always loved the signature and series models best. Were I prepared to spend that much money on a bass I'd quite happily have a Series II or a Mark King model.

[Soliloquy]

Very nice basses, very heavy though. I had a Stanley Clarke bass a few years ago, it was hopelessly unbalanced.

[JTUK]

I have not liked the few that I have played.
For the money the shops were trying to charge, they had too many bits I thought was clumsy..like the switchgear and the
phantom power thing which really spoiled all the lines..which was an aquired taste thing anyway.

For that money I'd have to be convinced about EVERYTHING, and I really wasn't.
Nice wood though but others do it just as well or better now, IMO.

I wouldn't say over-rated, but you would have to be sold on them..and I think that sort of thinking is in your head before you buy..
It wasn't in mine and I couldn't see how that would change.

That aren't for me and I do not think I am mssing anything from what little I know.

[Kiwi]

They're idiosyncratic instruments, because they were originally designed with some specific [u]studio based[/u] criteria in mind. The intention was to isolate the vibration of the string as much from the wood as possible to enhance sustain. At the time, a dramatic departure from the other manufacturers. So they're distinctive and ground breaking in their own way.

Weight does tend to be an issue in the instruments apart from the Series 1 and 2 lines. Some will probably point to the shifting of wood laminates in the headstock joint in a few basses as evidence that they're not all they're supposed to be but this was never a structural issue. Apart from moving exclusively to maple and purpleheart necks, the basic design hasn't changed a whole lot in 30 years so it could be argued that they got it good enough first time around.

But they'll still be a bit marmite depending on whether the vision behind the design of the instrument fits with the expectations of the player. But the important thing is that they're hand crafted with a vision and pride by a long standing team of professionals who have been doing the same job for decades.

Whether thats worth the new asking price? No idea and its not important if they're available second hand for the same price as other high end brands.

[Fat Rich]

Build quality seems to be excellent but I've hated the feel and the balance of every one I've ever tried. Never liked the styling or the sound either.

If I bought one it'd be a waste of money but if it feels and sounds good to you then go for it.

[molan]

I have a Mark King which really shows off the amazing build quality and tonal flexibility of Alembic basses. Although they tend to have a core 'hi-fi' sound the electronics allow you to dial in all sorts of tonal options,

I love it for playing at home but not sure it's really a gigging bass. Mine isn't desperately heavy but I'm not sure quite how much it weighs.

As kiwi has said, they are a bit 'marmite' - I know a few people over on the Alembic forum and some of them are near-fanatical about the quality of them.

Prices are all over the show on the used market. I've seen some sell at what I'd consider crazy prices but you can find the odd one now and then at the kind of price that means you could try one out and if it doesn't work out then you'd easily re-coup the investment

[Dread Bass]

I have an epic which is one of the cheaper models. No problems with balance on mine. It is quite heavy but not crippling. It sounds immense nothing I have played has the sound. However the finish on mine is not great I don't think it scratches far too easily. The construction is spot on.

[GreeneKing]

Thanks for your replies. Are all the short bodied basses like the Stanley Clarke and the Mark King headstock heavy? I suspect they are, unless perhaps they are the short scale models

Peter

[molan]

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='1069461' date='Dec 26 2010, 08:40 AM']Thanks for your replies. Are all the short bodied basses like the Stanley Clarke and the Mark King headstock heavy? I suspect they are, unless perhaps they are the short scale models

Peter[/quote]

Loz is definitely your man for short scale Alembics.

I'm sure he'll be along soon

[lozbass]

Hi Barrie, Greeneking and all, sorry for the delay - 'been running around a bit! I'll have to keep this short too - more running around today.

First, Greeneking, you're more than welcome to try my Alembics if you're around the North West anytime.

I'm very clearly biased - please bear this in mind! I currently have four Alembics. I'll try to remain objective.

As Crazykiwi suggests, Alembics are idiosyncratic instruments. The company pioneered some of the design features that we see in many high end basses today - the original designs have remained fairly stable in the past couple of decades but Alembic remains highly committed to R&D and is constantly tweaking designs, processes, electronics etc. where it feels improvements can be made.

Feel and ergonomics - hmm...some say Alembics feel 'rigid' and strange - I'd agree - they take a bit of getting used to. The balance on some models (for me) is simply awful. I have three short-scales (two SC deluxe models, one with Anniversary electronics, and a small bodied Series II custom) and they really don't balance at all well for me. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. The lightest - a buckeye burl faced SCD - isn't too bad as it's reasonably light and manoeuverable. Balance isn't really an issue anyway as I play seated more than 95% of the time. The Series II isn't playable on a strap - it's massively heavy - I used it for 15 minutes on a Comfort Strapp about a month ago and it hurt. Indeed, weight can be a big issue with Alembics - my two cocobolo basses are very heavy. The Buckeye burl SCD and Koa Series I are much lighter. The latter was completely re-furbed to 'new' by Alembic in May of this year - it was also slimmed down to just over 9lbs (some really clever weight reduction tricks - Alembic people really are clever and committed). The Series I is a long-scale point body too and balances perfectly (for me) - maybe any dive has been eliminated by the factory fitting of hipshot ultralites

Fit, finish and hardware - I doubt many would dispute that the timber choice, hardware, quality of craftwork and construction is about as good as it gets (this isn't to say that other high-end builders do a similarly good job - for example, the build quality of the Fodera and the Seis that I've owned were on a par with high-end Alembics)

Tone and electronics - there's much argument on TB and Alembic club but in my opinion, Alembics do have a characteristic and core tone - very grand piano like and pure with very complex fundamental. The first Alembic I had any time with left me shocked - the biggest, fattest, most complex bass tone I'd ever had with almost unbelievable sustain. Alembics are however, versatile - the signature, Anniversary and Series electronics are almost endlessly tweakable. It's easy to get some scary, cutting solo tones, or to achieve a nice fat tone that sits in a band mix - see for example, the youtube vids of Stanley Clarke and Jimmy Johnson for a comparison. The electronics are pretty sophisticated and again, take a bit of getting used to (but the experimentation is fun!) I do really sound biased here, but for me, the tone (and range of tones) is simply perfect

Styling - well, you either like it or you don't. I'm a big fan of the small-body shape and love the omega cuts (plain, heart and stinger). I also really like the Balance K body. Alembic will do pretty much anything in terms of timber facings, inlays, finishes and the quality of finishing/custom options on every Alembic I've seen has been simply staggering.

Reliability - Alembics are a bit weird and have some features that you won't find on any other bass - I've not had any real problems but I've heard of some complaints. As a result of the sophistication of the electronics (and all the extras that get stuffed into the various cavities), things can go wrong. Switches and pots can get squeaky and unreliable, LEDs sometimes get a bit intermittent, and the dual truss rod system - whilst highly tweakable - is single action only. Given the idiosyncracies, problems do emerge. However, there's an incredibly knowledgeable and helpful community on Alembic Club that can and will help owners to sort out pretty much any issue (Alembic staff are also extremely helpful and responsive - they've seen all the problems and have a range of fixes - they'll gladly impart any necessary information)

For anybody seriously thinking about an Alembic, I'd say spend some time with a few. They are unusual and may not suit everybody. For me they're the perfect instrument - the most staggering tone and unbelievable playability (complemented by exquisite design and finishing). As I say, I'm biased. Indeed, I'm selling pretty much all of my other basses to concentrate on the Alembic short-scales. The Koa Series I is for sale too - after three or four years of buying and selling loads of superb basses, I've realised that it's Alembic short-scale fretted fours that really just have everything that I'm looking for.

[skej21]

IMO they are not overrated, just overpriced.

[GreeneKing]

Hiya Loz, whereabouts in the NW are you? I'm in South Cumbria.

Thanks for taking the time to reply so fully and honestly. I may have a little money spare and would like to buy a bass to keep as a sort of memento of someone dear to me if that makes sense.

[Pete Academy]

In 1989 I bought my dream bass, an Alembic 20th Anniversary, one of 200 worldwide.. It was from the Bass Centre in London and took ages to get. When I plugged it in I noticed the pickups were microphonic, and on one gig the bass actually had feedback. In those days I had to call or fax their factory in the States. I ended up speaking to an advisor for the company, who told me that there had been a batch of faulty pickups. Faulty pickups on a bass of that quality and expense? Why hadn't it been spotted in quality control? I ended up taking it to the Bass Centre - a fair distance from Stoke - only to have their engineer put foam under the pickups, which was no use at all. To cut a long and frustating story short, it took almost 18 months to get replacement pickups. On one of the many occasions I rang the factory, I actually had the female owner of Alembic complain about my frequent calls. I don't think Stanley Clarke would have had that told to him.

In a nutshell, it was a beautiful instrument, and sounded lovely and hi-fi (although I could never get a burpy back pickup sound from it), and I still regret selling it ( I bought my Tobias Classic 5 with the proceeds). However, to spend so much money and have such poor backup was extremely disappointing.

[E sharp]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1069616' date='Dec 26 2010, 03:13 PM']In 1989 I bought my dream bass, an Alembic 20th Anniversary, one of 200 worldwide.. It was from the Bass Centre in London and took ages to get. When I plugged it in I noticed the pickups were microphonic, and on one gig the bass actually had feedback. In those days I had to call or fax their factory in the States. I ended up speaking to an advisor for the company, who told me that there had been a batch of faulty pickups. Faulty pickups on a bass of that quality and expense? Why hadn't it been spotted in quality control? I ended up taking it to the Bass Centre - a fair distance from Stoke - only to have their engineer put foam under the pickups, which was no use at all. To cut a long and frustating story short, it took almost 18 months to get replacement pickups. On one of the many occasions I rang the factory, I actually had the female owner of Alembic complain about my frequent calls. I don't think Stanley Clarke would have had that told to him.

In a nutshell, it was a beautiful instrument, and sounded lovely and hi-fi (although I could never get a burpy back pickup sound from it), and I still regret selling it ( I bought my Tobias Classic 5 with the proceeds). However, to spend so much money and have such poor backup was extremely disappointing.[/quote]
I find this quite shocking on a bass costing this much . Piss poor quality control and customer service .

Years ago I always dreamed of one (they were THE dream bass when I started in the mid eighties) , but then saw the Stanley Clarke model , and thought - "who in their right mind would make a bass with the worst balance of any bass in the world bar none , and then charge 4 grand for it ?"

You can't deny the craftmanship at all . But can anyone here imagine a Goodfellow bass going out with a known fault - Bernie would be horrified . Ditto Rob at Status , Jon at Shuker , Martin at the Gallery , etc etc .

Same arguement here probably as the Fodera one a few months ago . If you covert one , have the funds , and really buy into the luthier's vision - then go for it and cherish it .

But I can't help thinking that with their reputation and price , there shouldn't be any bass (any at all) , sent out with a fault however large or small .

[Tlbasss]

I had always wanted to try one. The first one I ever tried wasn't me. I then tried a Rouge and loved it but it got sold before I could get it. The third one ( Essence 5 string) I bought as its smooth to play, tonaly great and looks good too. I wouldn't say its heavy compared to some other basses. Well built bass and I never have had a problem with balance. great when Di'd It still sounds good when your strings are starting to go dead too. More Hi Fi than woody sounding but glad I was able to get this bass. The only draw back I could ever mention is the dot markers are hard to see at darker gigs.

[retroman]

Good point, the side markers on my Orion are tiny, and really difficult to see in a darkened room.

I really love my Orion 5, and it is definately a keeper. The build quality is sublime, and it really is lovely to play. Everything about it oozes quality.

Tone wise, it is very clear, even with dead strings on, and the low B is very good too. Has quite a nice growl to it, and cuts through the mix very well. It has become my main gigging bass, and gets used every rehearsal. It is a little weighty, but not excessive though.

I know the OP was mainly asking about the SC, and MK type basses, but I have noticed that the Orion, and Elan models can be seious bargains on the second hand market.

If I had some spare cash kicking about, I would have a hard time passing up another Alembic

[far0n]

I saw one in Howard's Bass Place in Newcastle once up on a hook on the wall. I couldn't lift it off. :/

[lozbass]

Pete - I'm near Manchester (and work fairly central). If you're around, just give me a shout and we can try to sort something out (and I understand entirely where you're coming from).

Pete Academy's experience is a serious concern. I'm a really big fan of Alembics but I'm not here to defend the company, and its behaviour in Pete's case is indefensible. As indicated, the faulty pickups should never have made it out of the factory, the fix should have been immediate, and customer service should clearly have been much better. The dealings I've had with Alembic have been much more positive (and I'd be very disappointed if they hadn't been). Quickly, on the issue of Anniversary electronics, I've noticed that my SCD (Ann) has an extremely burpy tone with the back pickup soloed. I absolutely love it - I was shocked at just how burpy it is following a re-string and set-up last week (Martin at the Gallery): maybe it's something to do with the cocobolo or possibly the short scale length.

Good point on the side markers - all my short-scales have LEDs in silver rings so no problem with the lights on or off. However, I can imagine that the small brass markers on some basses aren't that easy to see on a dark stage (I have the brass markers on the Series I). I agree too on the balance issues with the SCs - some people don't find the balance a problem at all. Personally - the buckeye burl SCD apart - small bodied Alembics don't balance well for me on a strap - not an issue as they balance and sit extremely well in the lap (and I stand to play very rarely).

I realised following my last post that I hadn't really addressed Pete's original question. As others say, in the non signature and series categories there are some great bargains to be had. Even in Sig and Series territory, there are some well-priced instruments around. It really is all relative (as hundreds of BC and TB threads attest and discuss at length). I've had a crazy list of basses in the past 5 years or so - from the trendiest high-end builders, to the tiny boutique luthiers, and through to the highest-end of the production companies. Nearly all of them were staggeringly well built and sounded great. Sei, Celinder, Fodera, AC and Fender Masterbuilt were probably the standouts (IMO the Sei flamboyant is the most beautiful bass design ever conceived and Martin is a genius - a very lovely one at that). Again, IMO there is no 'best bass' or 'best builder' - certain types of bass suit certain types of player, at certain stages in their career.

Alembics are expensive (undoubtedly) but if you want one, you can find one that really 'works', and you can get the money together, then go for it. Nothing else plays or sounds like an Alembic, and if you really want the ergonomics, feel and sound, then you have to pay for it. I could get Martin or many other brilliant luthiers to build a beautiful, incredibly playable, superb bass for me but it wouldn't have the tone, feel or aesthetic of an Alembic. It's the difference that - personally - I find is worth the premium...and to be honest, that 'premium' doesn't have to be too big.

The 'calculator' prices of Alembics are extraordinary, however, factor in the 'specials' and dealer discounts and you can easily get down to 60% of the original calculator price (I've no idea why companies persist with MRSP and street etc. - I find it confusing and quite unhelpful). In reality, the higher-end Alembics aren't any more expensive than higher end Foderas, Thompsons, Lawrences, Ritters etc. (or those from other exotic boutique builders). Indeed, if you're willing to look around and wait for a very recent, almost unplayed high-end Alembic, you can find a good deal. All of my Alembics are second-hand, nearly new and were nearly unplayed when I acquired them. I paid between 45% and 65% of the original purchase price (and that includes importation fees for two basses). You just need to be watchful and highly selective - there are some great bargains to be had. Most of the basses I have came in at prices that would rival a new Wal, GB, Sei or GUS etc. I'm not suggesting in any way that they're 'better' than such basses, just similarly priced and have the features and tone that I prefer. Indeed, I'm selling a perfect, entirely 'as new' Series I bass for £3100 as I move towards short-scale almost exclusively (just an example, not an attempt to hijack the thread!)

So, I realise it's another short essay, but I hope I've remained reasonably objective and that my experience and (reasonably informed I hope) opinion is of help.

Edited December 27, 2010 by lozbass

[jakenewmanbass]

Every Alembic I've played I have liked.
I love my own MK.

[Chris2112]

Is there a UK dealer for Alembic? I've always got my eye out for one as I fancy a Series I or II or maybe a Mark King...

[Pete Academy]

Another thing I recall is speaking to someone who had two anniversaries - one in burl walnut and one in quilted maple - and one of the basses had a split in the wood, or something like that. I remember him saying that he phoned Alembic and asked to be put through to the repair department, only to be told that Alembic hadn't got one. 'Well, you'd better open one, then!' he replied.

What surprises me about the 20th Anniversaries is that despite the limited number made, they don't seem to have gone up in value very much. They were two grand then, and are worth about that now, I think.

[Chris2112]

Probably because they're not really any better than other Alembics of similar spec!