phil.mcglassup Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 Hi All, I am about to leave my existing band due to too many issues so have decided to form a classic rock type covers band of my own. The problem is that in my area there is a severe shortage of drummers or even people half interested in drumming, therefore, could anyone tell me if it is possible to use a drum-machine or a laptop with drum machine software as an alternative for practices and live performances in pubs and small clubs? I remember years ago watching The Sisters of Mercy live and they seemed to manage it!! Any advice appreciated!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Splayer Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 Hotstepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 Things have moved on since Dr Avalanche first appeared. I've been in a band that got fed up with real drummers so we switched to using drum machines. We used an Alesis SR-16 for the more aggressive songs and a Roland R-8 for the more complex ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.mcglassup Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 Cheers All. Are there any drawbacks to using them i.e. are they difficult to program etc? Problems using them live? Though at least the volume can be turned down!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 (edited) Entirely feasible to use drum machines / software drums / pre-recorded audio, though some purists have been known to turn their noses up at the practice. If you've already got a lappy, then there's any number of packages out there - just google "software drums". Obviously one limits one's ability to extemporise within the song. On the few occasions I've gone this route I dumped the software drums output to an mp3 and took a little player to the pub. Less to go wrong or get nicked. Edited December 26, 2010 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 Drum machines are far more reliable than their human counterparts...... I use them all the time. Oh and you can turn them down...... try suggesting that to a real one...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.mcglassup Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 Can all the drum machine options easily copy (manually) the original drum track? Or is it more difficult than that? I remember years ago having a Korg drum machine -but I'm hoping things are a bit simpler now!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 At least you only have to punch it in once....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.mcglassup Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 Ha-ha!! I calmly asked our last drummer to '"not hit them so hard" - he didn't speak to me for the rest of the practice!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.mcglassup Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 Are the drum-machines and laptop software programs easy to use by a newby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 EZ drummer has some great sounds and you can literally 'drag and drop' loops to create realistic tracks really easily. Also it follows MIDI commands e.g. dynamics, tempo etc... Winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.mcglassup Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 Is it possible to download the drum section for our chosen songs and then play them ? It just sounds easier!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 (edited) [quote name='phil.mcglassup' post='1069739' date='Dec 26 2010, 06:50 PM']Is it possible to download the drum section for our chosen songs and then play them ? It just sounds easier!![/quote] You could search for MIDI files, I suppose. Then strip out the other instruments. Drum machines are pretty easy to program. Software drums are easier due to the fact you have a bigger screen and a better graphical interface. Edited December 26, 2010 by bartelby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.mcglassup Posted December 26, 2010 Author Share Posted December 26, 2010 Thanks for all the information everyone...it is very much appreciated. Has anyone any more pearls of wisdom on this subject? (Especially as I know next to nothing!!) Cheers. BTW, what leads are used to connect a laptop to an amp or PA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Vincent Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 Personally,I wouldn't take a laptop any where near a sweaty stage environment.Been using drum machines for decades.My personal favourite is the Boss DR660,programme it by playing the pads in realtime,quantise,off you go.And easier than trying to get a drummer to drool in stereo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntLockyer Posted December 26, 2010 Share Posted December 26, 2010 [quote name='phil.mcglassup' post='1069744' date='Dec 26 2010, 07:00 PM']Has anyone any more pearls of wisdom on this subject? (Especially as I know next to nothing!!)[/quote] Honestly, I would carry on looking for a drummer. Programming drums [i]well[/i] is not easy. If you want a fast way of doing it buy a sequencer program (Cubase, logic, sonar etc.) most will come with a sampler plugin. Download the midi file for the track and mess about until it sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 I played in a rock covers duo in the mid 90s, we used pre-programmed drums. Me & the guitarist both had Roland drum machines (80s relics, a TR505 & a TR707) & we both programmed the drum parts. We also used pre-recorded keyboards & rhythm guitars during solos, so we went out with everything recorded on an old Tascam cassette-based 4-track. At the time it made massively good sense - no need to either transport or pay a drummer. My current original prog band has gigged with programmed drums a couple of times when we were "between drummers" - it's not ideal but was OK, and if push came to shove I'd have no problem doing it again. We often practice like that anyway. Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.mcglassup Posted December 27, 2010 Author Share Posted December 27, 2010 Thanks everyone! Why is there such a shortage of drummers? Or is it just in my area? Guitarists are ten-a penny, is it not cool to play drums anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntLockyer Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 [quote name='phil.mcglassup' post='1069933' date='Dec 27 2010, 08:30 AM']Why is there such a shortage of drummers? Or is it just in my area?[/quote] Because we were told that drum kits were to big, too loud and too expensive. I didn't get a drumkit till I was in my 20s for all those reasons. where abouts are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.mcglassup Posted December 27, 2010 Author Share Posted December 27, 2010 North Lincolnshire. It looks like there's loads of bands in this area looking for a drummer!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 (edited) [quote name='phil.mcglassup' post='1069933' date='Dec 27 2010, 08:30 AM']Thanks everyone! Why is there such a shortage of drummers? Or is it just in my area? Guitarists are ten-a penny, is it not cool to play drums anymore?[/quote] We're entering into a whole new subject with this. There are a couple of reasons, the first being (as always) lack of space/understanding neighbours (although it has never been easier to buy a quieter practice or electronic kit these days). There is also the fact that it is bloody difficult to maintain, think about all the expenses required to keep bass going and all the resulting blisters and injuries. You can multiply them by 10 if you're a loud drummer, at least. Even seasoned pros still get blisters from too much playing, blisters in blisters, the things are nasty. A set of drum heads is about 5x as expensive as a new set of bass strings. 2 pairs of sticks are about the same price as a set of bass strings and some pro drummers can go through 3 or more pairs in one gig! One cymbal can cost more than a bass and if you're not careful with how you play them you can crack them within a matter of months. As i say though many of these problems can be rectified by just following the right techniques and not playing like an idiot but it is too much of a problem for many. Plus there is the fact I think about how you are viewed as a drummer. Apart from all the "drummer jokes", people just don't really see playing the drums as being as good as being a guitarist or a singer and would rather do that (pointing out the obvious now, aren't i?) but yeah I think there is definetly something attached to being a drummer that a lot of people would just shy away from. Sorry for the long winded answer. As for your OP, you've got a few options which have pretty much been mostly explained already but I would say for the best results you want some song authoring software to input the notes, then export as a midi file into some sequencing software which you can then insert a virtual instrument into (again for best results, a small outlay may be required. Or TPB, depending on whether you're that way inclined.) and use that for the drum sounds. Also I think cubase does both the authoring and sequencing side of things, not really used it though. The best option in my opinion though is to pick up the sticks if you can't find anyone else, "if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself..." that's what I did Edited December 27, 2010 by EdwardHimself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntLockyer Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 [quote name='phil.mcglassup' post='1069982' date='Dec 27 2010, 10:50 AM']North Lincolnshire. It looks like there's loads of bands in this area looking for a drummer!![/quote] A bit far for me to travel, although my Mrs is from Cleethorpes and wants us to move back. If you get really stuck with making the drum tracks using the method I described with the midi files let me know and I'll try and steer you in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.mcglassup Posted December 27, 2010 Author Share Posted December 27, 2010 I didn't know drumming was such a pain...physically and financially!! Long winded answers are fine Thanks for the replies. I only did simple drum tracks on my old Korg with bass/snare and high-hats..no fills etc!!If you could explain the basics of creating a drum track as I haven't got much idea (read that as no idea) regarding: MIDI files MIDI commands sequencing loops sampler plugin Would it be OK to run the end product, whether it be drum machine or laptop through my old bass combo? -And not through the PA? We will only end up with vocals through the PA. I'm old school regarding my performing skills and a lot of this new technology confuses me a bit!! TIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryer Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 Here are the manuals for mine ( which is for sale ) which explains how to use one, and may help you decide how easy or difficult they are to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 (edited) [quote name='phil.mcglassup' post='1070091' date='Dec 27 2010, 01:17 PM']I didn't know drumming was such a pain...physically and financially!! Long winded answers are fine Thanks for the replies. I only did simple drum tracks on my old Korg with bass/snare and high-hats..no fills etc!!If you could explain the basics of creating a drum track as I haven't got much idea (read that as no idea) regarding: MIDI files MIDI commands sequencing loops sampler plugin Would it be OK to run the end product, whether it be drum machine or laptop through my old bass combo? -And not through the PA? We will only end up with vocals through the PA. I'm old school regarding my performing skills and a lot of this new technology confuses me a bit!! TIA.[/quote] About composing drum parts, really you've just got to be sensible. Imagine yourself playing the drums at that point and ask yourself whether it is in the relms of physical possibility. Try not to overplay on fills (don't imagine there being much danger of that) and really just try to keep things simple if you're just starting out. I find it helps to try and tab out songs that you like listening to, or listen to what other people have done (as long as it's accurate) to get an idea of what drum fills are composed of. I've run vocals through my old bass combo before. I think you should be ok really. They're not strictly designed to run them but I find you're pretty much ok with it. Edited December 27, 2010 by EdwardHimself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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