Hit me with your rhythm stick

[flyfisher]

[quote name='J.R.Bass' post='1070812' date='Dec 28 2010, 10:50 AM']Yeah but Ian Durys vocals aren't the part that make the song. Its the bassline that does.[/quote]

Well, as this is a bass-player's forum, that's not a surprising view (and one that I agree with), but the great unwashed listening public might well have a different view. The sax solo is also pretty unique, for example, and Dury's vocals are certainly distinctive. Yes, the bassline is far more prominent in this song than many (most?) others, but everything combines to create a great song and I'd bet very few non-bass players would ever notice the difference between the original recording and the OP's bassline. Heck, I'd even bet a large number of bass players wouldn't notice it either.

Now, if the OP had just sat on the root notes then I'd be the first to agree the song was screwed . . . although it's often been mentioned how few people really notice bass lines anyway, so that might be a fun experiment at a gig.

[greyparrot]

[quote name='J.R.Bass' post='1070812' date='Dec 28 2010, 10:50 AM']Yeah but Ian Durys vocals aren't the part that make the song. Its the bassline that does.[/quote]


but mate they might be to a vocalist? as we are bass players we think it made the song.....the song is the song, bass is part of it. (ps im the one who played the line, the tread starter), and agree with all of the above post. And as proof, my frineds all great players (guitar vocals etc ) have heard it and not one comment about but its not the same! two you tube comments so far and both positive. You cant always look at things from a bass players point of view, because its the public that hear the product.

Edited December 28, 2010 by greyparrot

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='greyparrot' post='1070839' date='Dec 28 2010, 11:22 AM']but mate they might be to a vocalist? as we are bass players we think it made the song.....the song is the song, bass is part of it. (ps im the one who played the line, the tread starter), and agree with all of the above post. And as proof, my frineds all great players (guitar vocals etc ) have heard it and not one comment about but its not the same! two you tube comments so far and both positive. You cant always look at things from a bass players point of view, because its the public that hear the product.[/quote]

You see now mate, your getting me all wrong. I'm a players player. What i mean by that is i play parts for the song, the overall package.

I couldn't care less about how you've played it on a video for youtube. The only point i made was about the Vocals.

There is always a couple of thing that really 'make' a song, and in this song, the bass is one of them, theres no two ways about it.

And if all you mates say its great then does that make everyone else wrong?

Edited December 28, 2010 by J.R.Bass

[gub]

Great work gp ,i just had a go at it but cant get it fast enough but will keep trying. keep posting the vids i and from what i can see many others enjoy watching them

[greyparrot]

[quote name='J.R.Bass' post='1070844' date='Dec 28 2010, 11:31 AM']You see now mate, your getting me all wrong. I'm a players player. What i mean by that is i play parts for the song, the overall package.

I couldn't care less about how you've played it on a video for youtube. The only point i made was about the Vocals.

There is always a couple of thing that really 'make' a song, and in this song, the bass is one of them, theres no two ways about it.

And if all you mates say its great then does that make everyone else wrong?[/quote]



everyone??? i can see only one or two people throughout this tread saying its wrong to change a great bass line. Ill put it this way, whatever way you look at it that song if played in that groove as i did takes alot of technical ability and stamina. Now lets look at the bigger picture. Movies how many times have you seen a remake of the same film? if the remake was the same as the last one what would be the point? where is the individuals skill or his own brain making up somethin in his own mind. What is the point in cloning ? i still say that if that bass player did that song live, ill bet it wont be the same as the record. How would you even remember it note for note? i know i could not, unless its read from a score and lets face it thats not what rock n roll is all about. A song is made up of all parts bass drums guitar vocals. Not just bass and vocal line. While i do not try to change your view point, in fact respect it, i also have my viewpoints on the aspect of playing in an individual style.

Ps i trully can say that on this song i also love the drum line as much as the bass line. If i was a drummer, i would not play it exact. There is no right or wrong unless you are playing wrong note/scales, but there is different.


GP

Edited December 28, 2010 by greyparrot

[greyparrot]

[quote name='gub' post='1070857' date='Dec 28 2010, 11:45 AM']Great work gp ,i just had a go at it but cant get it fast enough but will keep trying. keep posting the vids i and from what i can see many others enjoy watching them [/quote]
#


hehe thank you :-)

[RichF]

[quote name='gub' post='1070857' date='Dec 28 2010, 11:45 AM']Great work gp ,i just had a go at it but cant get it fast enough but will keep trying. keep posting the vids i and from what i can see many others enjoy watching them [/quote]

gee whizz reading through this thread, that's 45 mins I'll never get back.

Grey parrot - well done mate, too much chat on this site sometimes and not enough action ( I know it's basschat and not bass action). Too many guys with a ready critcial opinion with no balls to get their playing up for all to see. Keep your vids coming, rough, smooth, whatever.

P.S. not accusing anyone on this particular thread of lacking balls - I am sure every single poster on this thread has balls the size of grapefruits.

Edited December 28, 2010 by RichardFoggo

[markorbit]

Yeah it's not note for note but I like it none the less. Great tone too. Nice to hear a bass sound like a bass. Cool.

[iconic]

real sweet playing, thanks

as for being 100% as the original, not an issue for me....I'm glad if anyone recognises anything I play!

....although... hearing Le Freak played using a pick was interesting a few weeks back....I had my back to the band, getting a beer and thought, the bass must of had an iffy lead or something, causing some notes to drop out!

[ironside1966]

Hit me is one of the bass lines that everybody plays slightly different and think they are the ones how have it right.
If you are learning songs for an audition my advice would be to get them right especially with songs like good times because they might be set to see how you deal with space
At a risk of repeating myself from a similar thread when you half learn a song you are staying in your comfort zone and not moving on. I am not going to knock Greyparrot because he is a fine player but he was faced with two choices to make the right way work and he would have learnt something or the easy way.

PS
I like Greyparrot's playing videos

[JTUK]

I'll say it again.

As a busk..?? who cares, but as the iconic part of the song you need to be close.
The hardest parts are the slide up to the octave verse run. You need to get there exactly in time or else you spoil the run and make it very hard to keep in sync.

99.9% of the time, I'll take a good interpretation 100% of the time..but this part needs to be nailed of you are going to cover it.

And for such a part you have to bring something along to the party.. or even better the part.

There are some parts that you can't deviate much at all...as they are so instantly recognisable..like I Wish, Good Time and this line.

As a throwaway demo and groove, I said, well done, but this part needs to be nailed, IMV.

If you don't agree, it doesn't matter, but most decent bands would have it right, I'd wager, and if you were going to put that line out there at a proper gig, this is the one line above all else, that would/should have to be right.

It is a benchmark, a standard and normally I wouldn't give two hoots, but this one line is different.
I would expect a few boos if you got this line wrong.. seriously..!!!

Apart from that, I'm out.

[bh2]

I would say, if you're playing this song with a band then you'd have to nail it, otherwise drop it from the set.

As a bit of mucking about is okay though.

[skankdelvar]

My 2p. I like that vid and the line is entirely feasible for a covers band. It grooves nicely.

In the unlikely event that audience members started booing, I'd follow the advice given some time ago in another thread by a [i]certain [/i]poster in this one.

[quote]"If someone made the point that it isn't like that on the record, I'd offer to buy them the CD and they can f*** right off "[/quote]

Edited December 28, 2010 by skankdelvar

[stingrayPete1977]

I have just got in from a road trip and had the ipod on shuffle, Molly Chambers by Kings Of Leon comes on but its the live lounge version and even If I say so myself the version our covers band does is closer to the recoed by a mile. The only difference is they are KOL and we are not, The audience would probably not even notice it was different because its only us bass geeks over listening that would spot the slight alterations here and there as the main feel of the track is the same.

[Pete Academy]

This has developed into an interesting thread. Playing in a tribute band, I try to get nail the lines as accurately as possible. But over the years I've tried to inject a bit of my own personality and feel into the Steely Dan bass parts. As I mentioned previously, Chuck Rainey's slap part on Peg is hard to replicate, mainly due to his style and the fact that the bass didn't sound 'zingy' when slapped. You can see why Becker and Fagen failed to spot him slapping. For me, my version of Kid Charlemagne is also an approximation, as I believe Rainey's amazing part is impossible to replicate accurately. Bootsy's Sex Machine is also an example of this.

However, there are certain songs where I have studied the original note for note, as the part is so perfect and just has to be played to the record. Greenflower Street and IGY come to mind. In fact, virtually every bass part on The Nightfly is absolute perfection, and IMO should be performed (not necessarily played) as is recorded. I also think that the part on Gaslighting Abbie warrants this.

An example of a bass part that I've changed slightly over the years is Ricki Don't Lose That Number. Apart from the intro, the main song isn't something the average listener would pick up on. To me, the main importance of most songs is to maintain the overall feel, which is something I try to achieve. But I just agree with JTUK that certain songs need to be performed live as they were written. And Rhythm Stick is one of them.

Ramble over.

[JTUK]

Ha ha ..Pete..I take my hat of to you for having to rip all those players. After the second album or when Becker hung up his bass, you are following NY/LA's top drawer and even some of their efforts never made the final cut..!!!!

If I had to play 'Stick' again, I'd be as close as I can get. If I couldn't do that with this track, I'd bin it but since I have been in 2 bands that did it, I'll have to learn it again. But if I have to do this, then I'll make sure the drums and keys get it as well. but their parts are more fluid.

Being in cover bands, you have to take an interpretation most of the time..simply because of the line-up and generally, a moving part is enough but some basslines are definitive.
It is not as if some of the audience would know or not....I'd know.

There is no way I could play the track in question and get away with a fluff anyway... the guys in the bands wouldn't have it either.

[ironside1966]

From my experience the bands that get their parts right get put the time and effort to get the music right and the musicians with the attitude of it will do tend to be in it will do bands but there is nothing wrong with changing developing songs/ parts overtime so long as it is self not indulgent and done for the right reasons.

[greyparrot]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='1071295' date='Dec 28 2010, 09:42 PM']From my experience the bands that get their parts right get put the time and effort to get the music right and the musicians with the attitude of it will do tend to be in it will do bands but there is nothing wrong with changing developing songs/ parts overtime so long as it is self not indulgent and done for the right reasons.[/quote]


hi guys was out all day chilling with my friend Lisa. you lot have been great (im the guilty one for the bass line) i think its so interesting what people are saying, and amazing to see peoples reactions and comments to my vid. I will be the first to say that we as bass players have a bloody hard job. Not only do we have to understand rhytham, but also harmony scales etc etc, we are the cement between the drums and guitars. We have a bloody hard job, and we all just wanna do what we feel is right. Belive me parading my vidios in front of a load of bass players is scary, but also rewarding. Im feeling that most of you are appreciative of the work it took to get to that level weather its played the same or not, one thing is for sure its still bloody hard! iv watched some great vids on here and met some great people in trades etc, and i can honestly say that posting my vids here is a huge confidance boost to me, as im not a confident person. As for the nature of my playing on this vid, i like the song, i like the 16th note groove and the attack, thats what i tried to capture, not the individual notes but the mood and feel of the bass part, if that makes sense. I also know that if i was in an ian dury tribute band i would do my dam nearest to nail it note for note, as i had to with the shadows tribute i was in, but if i was in a pub band doing covers i and im sure the band i was in would be happy that i can even get that groove going. Remamber i just had a crappy you tube track in my cans, not a loud bass drum and hi hat n snare to lock into. BUT im not in a covers band nor an ian dury tribute, but a function duo/band but i fancied playing that 16th note groove to that classic song. I can take something outa every post here and i will thank you all . :-)

[gub]

Well said

[EddieG]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1071166' date='Dec 28 2010, 06:47 PM']This has developed into an interesting thread. Playing in a tribute band, I try to get nail the lines as accurately as possible. But over the years I've tried to inject a bit of my own personality and feel into the Steely Dan bass parts. As I mentioned previously, Chuck Rainey's slap part on Peg is hard to replicate, mainly due to his style and the fact that the bass didn't sound 'zingy' when slapped. You can see why Becker and Fagen failed to spot him slapping. For me, my version of Kid Charlemagne is also an approximation, as I believe Rainey's amazing part is impossible to replicate accurately. Bootsy's Sex Machine is also an example of this.

However, there are certain songs where I have studied the original note for note, as the part is so perfect and just has to be played to the record. Greenflower Street and IGY come to mind. In fact, virtually every bass part on The Nightfly is absolute perfection, and IMO should be performed (not necessarily played) as is recorded. I also think that the part on Gaslighting Abbie warrants this.

An example of a bass part that I've changed slightly over the years is Ricki Don't Lose That Number. Apart from the intro, the main song isn't something the average listener would pick up on. To me, the main importance of most songs is to maintain the overall feel, which is something I try to achieve. But I just agree with JTUK that certain songs need to be performed live as they were written. And Rhythm Stick is one of them.

Ramble over.[/quote]

Agree 100%. I play in a band that does predominantly "Yacht Rock" stuff, and in something like Kid Charlemagne, there are so many live versions around of Steely Dan performing it that you can take some ideas from all of them and then make the part your own, while keeping the same groove as the original, and you'll get away with it. Sometimes, in the case of something like Minute By Minute, the live versions that followed are much better than the original recording, and are better for live performance.

But, in some songs like Josie, Peg or even Boz Scaggs' tune Lowdown, where the bassline that's on the record is an integral part of the song (even a "riff", if you like), you really do need to stick pretty rigidly to the part that's there in terms of the meter and delivery of the notes you play, and Rhythm Stick is one of those basslines. I'm playing it on New Year's Eve, and not only is it a pretty difficult part endurance-wise, its also one that you definitely cant busk because it'll get spotted straight away. Its a fun line to play though, even if it is a hand-breaker!

And the keyboard/bass unison line on Gaslighting Abbie is a nightmare!

Edited December 29, 2010 by EddieG