how low is a good low action?

[gub]

I was just reading a thread where the action was described as being about the thickness of a pound coin at 12th fret . so just popped up stairs and stuck a pound coin under mine at 12th and its tight on my old ibanez roadstar and a little loose on the aria pro 2 sb 1000 , so was wondering is this a good low action or would you get something like a penny under a really good one ?

[Chris2112]

Like the action on my ACG. I can't be more precise than that, other than to say the bass is set up just how I like it.

[Muzz]

[quote name='gub' post='1071736' date='Dec 29 2010, 01:57 PM']I was just reading a thread where the action was described as being about the thickness of a pound coin at 12th fret . so just popped up stairs and stuck a pound coin under mine at 12th and its tight on my old ibanez roadstar and a little loose on the aria pro 2 sb 1000 , so was wondering is this a good low action or would you get something like a penny under a really good one ?[/quote]

It all depends on how you like to play - pick or fingers, dig in or soft touch. I think I've got a good low action, but then I clart the strings with a pick, so it'd probably horrify some. I have one friend who declares my Ray 'unplayable'. I'll check for a laugh later, but I suspect I'd get a couple of quid under mine...

[Conan]

Depends on how you play, what gauge your strings are and lots of other factors!

I hate a really low action, but I am a rather heavy-handed player....

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='gub' post='1071736' date='Dec 29 2010, 01:57 PM']I was just reading a thread where the action was described as being about the thickness of a pound coin at 12th fret . so just popped up stairs and stuck a pound coin under mine at 12th and its tight on my old ibanez roadstar and a little loose on the aria pro 2 sb 1000 , so was wondering is this a good low action or would you get something like a penny under a really good one ?[/quote]

Mine is a between a 1mm and 2mm... and I play with a really light touch. Most people can't get notes out of my basses. I could take my basses a smidge lower but a little excitement at gigs would mean excessive fret clank.

Not all basses can go this low due to the bridge not dropping low enough or the dusty end of the neck being set too low (not a problem with bolt ons because you can shim but a but of an issue for set necks or thru necks)

To be honest, I'm not a fan of measuring action... it's more about setting it where it feels comfortable to play... and this can change from bass to bass and as mentioned above, strings and scale length. Play on a 32" scale with a low action and it'll feel faster than anything else.

If you can get your action to the width of a penny, I'd say that's a low action... doesn't mean it's a really good action though because even if the instrument plays, it may sound lifeless.

Edited December 29, 2010 by EBS_freak

[SteveK]

It's all down to personal taste and how you attack the strings.
I generally play harder than your average player. Consequently a bass with a 'good' 'low' action will be too low for me - too many rattles and buzzes.
If your a tickler then a very low action will be possible.
Some players are also more tolerant of rattles and buzzes than others.
Experiment - see what suits you.

BTW before playing with the action make sure the truss rod is suitably adjusted.

[Chris2112]

I remember someone on Talkbass once talking about how he played Jeff Berlin's bass at a clinic or something and he couldn't get a note out of it because the action was so low and set up for Jeff's light touch. When you watch him play you can see how low the action is on his basses, it's crazy!

[Muzz]

Jeff Berlin - 'He's A Tickler': Shock Accusation...

[dave_bass5]

I play with a pick and would say im in the middle. Im not really heavy handed but do dig in a bit at gigs.

I have the action on all my basses at 2mm 12th fret/E string. If i cant get that ill probably shim the neck to see if i can get it or send the bass back.
I tend to shim my necks so that the action doesn't get any higher past the 12th fret. This works well for me, even though i dont really play up that high (much).

I used to hate fret buzz and clank but im starting to live with it. I do all my own set-ups at home and can get quite anal about it, but at gigs i very rarely hear the clank/buzz so i dont worry too much if its there in isolated playing any more, and this helps me achieve the action i like on necks that aren't maybe the best for low action.

To me its about feel, and familiarity. While i can play higher it doesn't feel as comfortable up at the dusty end.

Edited December 29, 2010 by dave_bass5

[Lozz196]

I had one of my Precisions set up by a luthier, and the action was incredibly low. Luckily he had put on regular gauge Rotos, as as soon as I put on the Heavies, the action was up where I like it.

To quote Muzz, I also clart the bass a bit, so need a bit of poundable distance to the fretboard.

[Dood]

Interesting reading! I like my board to be as flat as possible, very little relief and the action to be as low as possible - but there's a fine line between trading off tone Vs playability. I like a bit of rattle in my tone, but it is controlled. I can get my basses to sound clean when I want them to, but there's nothing like digging in and making the bass bark a bit! I use my custom ramps for both finger style and pick which goes along way to stopping me from playing too hard and choking off notes.

I started off subscribing to the Billy Sheehan method: As low as possible then bring the action up again to get rid of the rattles and problems - but it is important to have a really good fret job and set up if you are going to have a crazy low action, because it can lead to all sorts of fret buzzes if you have uneven fret heights. This could well be a reason why a good few basses you try out in shops are set up with such high actions - because the fret jobs are a bit poo!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='dood' post='1071812' date='Dec 29 2010, 03:04 PM']Interesting reading! I like my board to be as flat as possible, very little relief and the action to be as low as possible - but there's a fine line between trading off tone Vs playability. I like a bit of rattle in my tone, but it is controlled. I can get my basses to sound clean when I want them to, but there's nothing like digging in and making the bass bark a bit! I use my custom ramps for both finger style and pick which goes along way to stopping me from playing too hard and choking off notes.

I started off subscribing to the Billy Sheehan method: As low as possible then bring the action up again to get rid of the rattles and problems - but it is important to have a really good fret job and set up if you are going to have a crazy low action, because it can lead to all sorts of fret buzzes if you have uneven fret heights. This could well be a reason why a good few basses you try out in shops are set up with such high actions - because the fret jobs are a bit poo![/quote]

You subscribe to the same school as thought as me. My necks are pretty much flat radiused and dead straight. The fret job has to be absolutely spot on. One slightly high fret and the whole setup is ruined. Bit of rattle - but nothing you can hear in the mix. Solo playing and my touch is light enough to escape the rattle.

Playing a lot of chordal stuff up the neck, the neck has to be flat otherwise the instrument just won't stay in tune properly. Think about it - the frets are spaced on the fretboard perfectly. The second you but relief in the neck, the fret spacing changes. Maybe it's not enough to realise when playing single notes but it certainly is when you are playing multiple notes.

The stuff you try in shops rarely have had a fret job- the frets are hammered in and that's it... bass ready to go. You have to be really lucky to find a bass that plays low without doing a fret job first.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='1071744' date='Dec 29 2010, 02:02 PM']Mine is a between a 1mm and 2mm... and I play with a really light touch. Most people can't get notes out of my basses.[/quote]

Im one of the most people, A perfect Daryl Jones ruined!

[chris_b]

There is no single answer to this. After seeing Alex playing at the Bass Bash, he was obviously a longbow man in a previous life, I now realise I play with a lighter touch! But I don't like low action and prefer the strings to be higher and free of all buzzes etc.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='dood' post='1071812' date='Dec 29 2010, 03:04 PM']I started off subscribing to the Billy Sheehan method: As low as possible then bring the action up again to get rid of the rattles and problems - but it is important to have a really good fret job and set up if you are going to have a crazy low action, because it can lead to all sorts of fret buzzes if you have uneven fret heights. This could well be a reason why a good few basses you try out in shops are set up with such high actions - because the fret jobs are a bit poo![/quote]


Yes, I would suspect this is the case. Many people will buy a bass with high action thinking they'll sort it out later, only to find that it buzzes and rattles due to a shoddy fretjob. I am a real stickler for good fretwork on basses; I spend as much time inspecting the instrument visually in a shop as I do playing it!

I was just playing my ACG there for a bit and I played my Kubicki straight afterwards and I was really surprised at the difference in feel between the two. The ACG has an asymmetrical neck with a flat board whereas the Kubicki has a slight radius. Of the two, I prefer the feel of the Kubicki neck but I suppose that could be the years of ownership of Kubicki basses speaking. Both have quite low action and are easy on the left hand (especially the Kubicki, which is a dream for left hand "click clack" sounds when you're slapping). Both of the basses have a nice "stiff" feeling to the strings on the right hand though, which is important to me. I suppose this is caused by the position of the bridge being more centered than on a jazz bass, say.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1072015' date='Dec 29 2010, 07:12 PM']Yes, I would suspect this is the case. Many people will buy a bass with high action thinking they'll sort it out later, only to find that it buzzes and rattles due to a shoddy fretjob. I am a real stickler for good fretwork on basses; I spend as much time inspecting the instrument visually in a shop as I do playing it! [/quote]

That's all well and good but you'll never be able to eyeball a high fret that would cause problems with an uber low action. Unless you physically set the action on the bass before you purchase, you have to buy in confidence that you can get the frets sorted as an a post purchase activity. Have you ever seen anybody in a shop do a setup in a bass to get it to their liking? Many shops would shriek in horror if you went anywhere near the truss rod. Funnily enough, I went shopping for StingrayPete's new Stingray and before collection, the bass got "set up". Well, said "set up" was ridiculously bad... whoever did it put a serious bow in the neck and the truss rod wasn't actually providing any tension in the neck. Wasn't till we got it back and fettled with it that the action was set right and the bass was playing as it should.

[quote]I suppose this is caused by the position of the bridge being more centered than on a jazz bass, say.[/quote]

Eh? What do you mean by this?

[Finbar]

I play really hard (mostly with a pick) and I have a really low action. I have to have strings with a lot of tension in them, and I pretty much never bend notes. Rattles like owt, but I don't care

Edited December 29, 2010 by Finbar

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='1072015' date='Dec 29 2010, 07:12 PM']I suppose this is caused by the position of the bridge being more centered than on a jazz bass, say.[/quote]

I dont know what this meens either?

And EBS my Ray5 was a right dog before you excellent setup, Thanks! But it was still as pretty as feck and worth buying for the colour alone

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1072275' date='Dec 29 2010, 11:19 PM']And EBS my Ray5 was a right dog before you excellent setup, Thanks! But it was still as pretty as feck and worth buying for the colour alone [/quote]

At least you are on the right number of strings now

[stingrayPete1977]

I will let you know after tomorrows wedding gig! I might keep a pair of wire cutters in my pocket incase I need to convert it to a 4 string quickly

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1072293' date='Dec 29 2010, 11:36 PM']I will let you know after tomorrows wedding gig! I might keep a pair of wire cutters in my pocket incase I need to convert it to a 4 string quickly [/quote]

You are going to need more than wire cutters. I hear that Stingrays are now loaded with clutch cables...

[stingrayPete1977]

Mine will be being downsized from 45's to the 40's once I have had my use out of the factory ones. Or maybe cut the nut to pieces and load it with 55's!

[sprocketflup]

So if a pound coin is about the average, is £20 good or bad


Im quite a violent stage player, I always had cheapy(ish) basses for stage use coz I used to beat the carp out of them, fret clank was an issue in places so I had quite a high action and learned to incorporate the clicks into my sound/style.

Maybe it was a totally amatuer thing to do/ way to play, but I never had any punters complain and I certainly did enjoy myself once the music started ( terrible stage fright - never did get rid of it )

[Conan]

I wonder how much of this has to do with the instrument that we learned on? In most cases, this would be a pretty cheap, rough-and-ready bass with all sorts of inadequacies... OK, maybe not everyone - but I know that my first bass was very ordinary in terms of action and playability!

How long we spent wrestling with this instrument probably also had an effect on our preference for a low or otherwise action. The sooner we moved up to a decent bass, the sooner we got used to a decent (for most people, read "low") action.

Those of us who manfully struggled away for years on a cheap bass may well have had our playing style influenced by that bass and found it awkward to switch to a 'better' instrument with lower action.... Eventually, when funds came along and we upgraded to a quality bass, out style and preferences were already set to a degree.

Just a theory!

[4000]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='1071744' date='Dec 29 2010, 02:02 PM']Mine is a between a 1mm and 2mm... and I play with a really light touch. Most people can't get notes out of my basses. I could take my basses a smidge lower but a little excitement at gigs would mean excessive fret clank.[/quote]

+1. I know when I took my Seis to Moffat one or two people expressed difficulty in playing them as they found the action too low . I can't play with anything higher. My old Rick is currently set up 2mm 12th fret E and 1mm 12th fret G and that really is about as high as I go; I consider that medium high action!

It really is all to do with how you pluck the string, how you fret the string (often forgotten; I fret really lightly), your strings themselves and the way the instrument responds.

As an example, Chris2112, I believe you have Peter's old ACG? I've played that bass a couple of times and if the action is how Peter had it then it's way too high for me, but then I've only met one person who likes their action lower than I do (although Martin Petersen assures me there is somebody else...).