Deluxe jazz or S1

[Dudgeman]

Apologies for my ignorance but I am not really a Fender guy..however I want a more versatlie bass and had narrowed it down to an MIA or MIJ Jazz deluxe. However I tried an MIM jazz deluxe in my local shop and loved to the sound from the A upwards but the E string seemed a little flat and when dropped tuned to a D lost a lot of tone and volume. I noticed that the pins under the A sring on the bridge pickup stuck out a mile and I wondered if this shows that the pick up itself is not that great.does this have a significant effect on volume output? I presume it does, but I am no expert. Also the fact that the E string pins were flush with the body of the pick up means that maybe output could be boosted? Is this just a way of getting over a poorly wound pick up and is this the difference between the quality of the MIM and the MIA jazzes? Maybe it just need someone to set it up properly?

One of the things I loved about the deluxe was the pickup blending options.. but I have also recently come accross someone selling an MIA with the S1 switching.which is supposed to mimick the deluxe and also the Precision tone...is this a good alternative to the deluxe?

As you can probably tell I am rather "Green" on Jazz basses but there seem to be so many options it is hard to know where to strat..even having decided on a deluxe over the standard..well unless you guys reckon the S1 version is as good.. see what I mean...

Any advice welcome to save hours and miles travelling around the country trying them all!
Cheers

[OliverBlackman]

You can raise either side of a pickup. They usually use foam or sponge underneath and you can loosen or tighten the screws. If you wanted more volume from the lower strings then you can raise the left side of the pickup by loosening the screws. A problem with Mexican fenders is they seem to have poor pickups compared to the american market so that there is a difference. I found this out when i had lessons with a guy using an american deluxenp and when i played it i got lots of low end compared to my mexican P. Easy answer i swapped the pickups on my P to some Lindy Fralins.

For a first time Jazz i would avoid both of these models. The Active deluxe edition doesn't give a very realistic jazz tone and i think the pre amps very cheap. The S-1's always sounded very flat to me and definately didn't seem to be worth the new value. My first jazz was an American Deluxe i picked off ebay for £580. I now have a Tokai Jazz which is my favourite bass i have played and that was just £360 off here. Another good few jazz's are the Fender Classic 70's reissue which is about £500 new and definately worth it, or the Squier Classic Vive which has great reviews on here.

[Dudgeman]

[quote name='blackmn90' post='1072341' date='Dec 30 2010, 12:13 AM']You can raise either side of a pickup. They usually use foam or sponge underneath and you can loosen or tighten the screws. If you wanted more volume from the lower strings then you can raise the left side of the pickup by loosening the screws. A problem with Mexican fenders is they seem to have poor pickups compared to the american market so that there is a difference. I found this out when i had lessons with a guy using an american deluxenp and when i played it i got lots of low end compared to my mexican P. Easy answer i swapped the pickups on my P to some Lindy Fralins.

For a first time Jazz i would avoid both of these models. The Active deluxe edition doesn't give a very realistic jazz tone and i think the pre amps very cheap. The S-1's always sounded very flat to me and definately didn't seem to be worth the new value. My first jazz was an American Deluxe i picked off ebay for £580. I now have a Tokai Jazz which is my favourite bass i have played and that was just £360 off here. Another good few jazz's are the Fender Classic 70's reissue which is about £500 new and definately worth it, or the Squier Classic Vive which has great reviews on here.[/quote]

Slight confusion with the pickups..I know you can shim them up but this was the actual pins on the pickup that were about 2 mm above the body of the pick up and only under the A string, I wondered if this had been set up like this to compensate for poor pickup construction? I am specifically looking for a Fender, I will have a good look at the Tokai later on, a friend had a Tokai Telecaster and absolutely adored it, but for the moment I want a Fender.
As for the sound..it is interesting that you don't think the deluxe gives an accurate jazz tone, I will take that on board, but I actually liked the variation of tone acheivable on the model I tried..I think it will work well with my current prioject. Thanks for your input..I will check out the other models you mentioned.

[Fullmetal]

There is a very obvious difference in the quality between models. The MIA basses are top quality with only the best parts and they are extremely well constructed (which is why they cost twice as much). The MIM basses are more likely to have some issues with the quality. Quality seems to vary from bass to bass, however the MIM basses sound amazing for the price.

[Dudgeman]

[quote name='Fullmetal' post='1073256' date='Dec 30 2010, 11:06 PM']There is a very obvious difference in the quality between models. The MIA basses are top quality with only the best parts and they are extremely well constructed (which is why they cost twice as much). The MIM basses are more likely to have some issues with the quality. Quality seems to vary from bass to bass, however the MIM basses sound amazing for the price.[/quote]

Have to agree on sound vs value..the MIM I tried was very well put together. Looks like the pickups could be a stumbling point..but easilly changed I guess. What other build issues do you think they might have? Neck issues? Is it a case of if you find a good one buy it rather than buy blind off the net because it is a better price?

[Circle_of_Fifths]

These 'pins' being mentioned - are the the pickup poles?

If so, they are set at different heights to compensate for the natural curve that is set into the string height to match the curve of the fretboard.

While it might be thought that a Deluxe-anything bass is not for a beginner - that's not really so.

The broad pallet of tones and voices that can be gotten out of an Active bass are astounding and the only caveat is that some might be intimidated with all the variables - er, available.

The MiM and MiA Fender Deluxe basses are machined in Corona California - just a few miles from me here, and my neighbor's son works there. Name withheld for reason of tenure.

Every time 'the truck' from Mexico arrives with finished products, they load it again with machined parts from the same CNC machines that create the MiA basses, and send them to Mexico (Ensenada) to be painted and assembled.

The only difference besides the fact that certain paints and finishes can be applied in Mexico that cannot here in the US - are that the necks on anything but the MiAs don't have the carbon fiber rods in the necks - big deal!

The 'US Electronics' myth is just that - a myth. Since all the electronics are manufactured offshore (can you say: CHINA?) - what it obviously matters is that some p'ups say "Duncan Designed - Noiseless" and others just say "Noiseless" or some words to that effect.

There are [u]some[/u] 18V units from the MiA factory, and the MiM are all (AFAIK) only 9V. Again: Big Deal!

So - you pay a lot more for a Fender bass made in Corona California by aliens (Mexicans) or you buy a Fender bass made in Mexico by Mexican Citizens.

Whazzat all about anyway?

Same wood - same CNC machines making the same parts and pretty much the same electronics - and two vastly different price tags. The only difference is that the MiAs perhaps have more interesting/decorative wood grain and the less-pretty woods go to the MiAs, and the necks don't have rattling carbon rods in the MiMs.

I wanted to buy the MiA Deluxe, but as the MiM Deluxe sounded as good and felt as good and looked as good and cost a lot less (1/3rd!) - guess which one I bought?

No regrets at all.

If the p'ups or electronics aren't up to snuff on a MiM, then if you buy a whole new active system it's still yards less money to get what you think you want. Believe me.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Circle_of_Fifths

[Vibrating G String]

Joe, you can't see me but I'm standing on my chair and applauding

I too say screw the price tag and just by the best bass for the money. MIA's cost more because people will pay more, and by people I mean other people

[iconic]

wow, interesting post Joe, thanks

[Fullmetal]

Joe you pretty much hit the nail on the head there. Also, your jazz is the exact combination I wanted to get! Black and Tort looks so awesome!

[Dudgeman]

Joe
Many thanks for that info..very interesting. Yes it was the Poles on the pick up..if they are adjusted to suit the neck curve then these must have been done by a blind man ..I have seriously never seen poles that far out of the housing before. I might have a word in our local music shop to see what their take on it is.

I think that, as you rightly say, the only real difference is the truss rod..I would expect the MIA to be made from better quality wood for the body and neck..but I would doubt there is much in it. I am going to change the colour of the bass as soon as I get it as I am after a Candy Tangerine one, (can't find one anywhere) this is being bought as part of our Muse tribute band so needs to look like Chris' bass and I love the colour. As well as wanting a really versatile bass I want a quality product and with a bit of set up I am pretty sure that a MIM would do. Looks like you might have made my mind up for me.......

Thanks again for the post...

[tom1946]

To a point I agree with CO5ths, I've had some really good MIM's but the USA Jazz that I still have will knock them all into a cocked hat for quality, superb rolled edges on the neck, total playablilty out of the case. It just reeks of high quality. I've had it for a year or so and the neck never needs adjustment, it has S1 that I only noticed the other day

I've had a deluxe MIM too and it was a good bass but not in this league.

[Circle_of_Fifths]

That 'quality of wood' issue is hard to justify too.

That the wood(s) is/are pretty much the same is a placebo methinks. True, they may come from the same board/plank - but I've seen South American hardwoods vary so much in quality and appearance from one end of the board to the other and make quantum turns halfway through the board at the same time too.

So - that being the case I suppose that the prettier woods might go into the MiAs, and perhaps some less-choice colored or swirled or grained woods might go the Mexico.

Once a neck is machined and inspected, then the more artistic woods are going to go into the MiAs I bet, but that isn't saying the overall quality is any different.

A pretty wood may or may not be any better tonally than a less attractive wood.

Then again, there's the 'attractive' part that is qualitative too and subject to personal appreciation and general cultural pre-conceived notions of beautiful verses ugly.

A burl here or there or some flame isn't a great indicator of tonality or resonance either. These interruptions in gain may also be a detriment to strength in the first place as they aren't supportive of the tensions of the strings and generally the construct of the whole instrument.

So as I see it - it's all a crap-shoot for quality even if it's pretty.

[Lozz196]

I agree with the "get the best instrument" opinion.

Out of all of the Fender Precisions I`ve had/still got, the MIAs are the best of the bunch, and if someone had given them all to me without any identifying marks, I would still have picked the three I`ve kept, because they were the best players. That said however, if someone gave me a bunch of Precisions, from all over the world, I`d be able to state which ones I preferred, but in no way would I have been able to state where they were made.

Probably the best Precision I`ve played (for me) that I didn`t own was a Roadworn. Fantastic bass, felt instantly at home with it, played like I`d had it for 20 years. Made in Mexico. If I`d been buying a bass that day, it would have come home with me. Where it was made would not have been a factor in buying that bass, it was great.

[Circle_of_Fifths]

[quote name='Lozz196' post='1076892' date='Jan 3 2011, 03:30 PM']I agree with the "get the best instrument" opinion.

Out of all of the Fender Precisions I`ve had/still got, the MIAs are the best of the bunch, and if someone had given them all to me without any identifying marks, I would still have picked the three I`ve kept, because they were the best players. That said however, if someone gave me a bunch of Precisions, from all over the world, I`d be able to state which ones I preferred, but in no way would I have been able to state where they were made.

Probably the best Precision I`ve played (for me) that I didn`t own was a Roadworn. Fantastic bass, felt instantly at home with it, played like I`d had it for 20 years. Made in Mexico. If I`d been buying a bass that day, it would have come home with me. Where it was made would not have been a factor in buying that bass, it was great.[/quote]

Right on.

So far I have successfully resisted picking up and playing any sort of RW. They are just so -- er, scratched and torn up.

But I also know that they are supposed to be smooth and deep-voiced and just all-around nice to play.

As I mature, I may ultimately like one for myself - but as it is right now, I don't think that day's coming.

[LukeFRC]

mexico or USA fender?
Find a japanese

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Circle_of_Fifths' post='1076779' date='Jan 3 2011, 01:08 PM']A burl here or there or some flame isn't a great indicator of tonality or resonance either. These interruptions in gain may also be a detriment to strength in the first place as they aren't supportive of the tensions of the strings and generally the construct of the whole instrument.[/quote]
I've seen enough bent necks that warp right at the one flame in the neck to assume straight is more stable than pretty. And if there was some kind of wood sorting going on you think we would know more about it. We can find pictures of the CNC machines but not of the highly skilled toneologists sorting $2 planks of alder and ash.

[KevB]

I picked up a 2004 MIA S1 jazz 3 or 4 years ago (see avatar) and it rapidly became my main bass. It just happened to also work out at great value (won for less than £400 on ebay including hard case). I've never found it 'flat' in any way. With the S1 button deployed it's a pretty mean machine. The build quality is good but there's no way I'd pay the going rate for a new one.

[Dudgeman]

Lozz..good you have a deposit on your Marshall..someone will be a very happy punter.

I think I might have found a great SH MIM jazz deluxe to get me started in the world of Fender, just need to seal the deal and find the cash! At about £350ish this is a great starting point for me..little financial risk if I don't like it..great main bass with my Rick if I do, and then maybe along the lines I will look out for a MIA....I did search for a MIJ but they seem to be rare beasts..I did own a Squire P bass that I bought as my first bass back in the early 80's...I hated it! Just such a dead sound..but the neck was fantastic...so far the neck has been like Triggers broom..3 new bodies and 2 changes of headstock shape..it is now about to go on a Rickenbacker shaped body with a mixture headstock of Fender/Rickenbacker to my design ( I am a cabinet maker so doing it myself )..the body is Maple/Yew and Oak backed for stability with a white banding..sounds odd but will be a real looker when laquored. It has spent the last 3 years drying out naturally so should be pretty stable...Yew is hard to work..very wet, can be highly figured but the grain goes all over the place due to the amount of branches so I am making a statement with any imperfections rather than trying to hide them. The pick ups are JP EMG with some other circuit board/preamp that a friend set me up with many years ago..they sound great..loads of punch..and I guess that is what I am looking for in the Jazz.

If I manage to seal the deal I will post some photos..I will also shove some up of the Rickenender/Fenderbacker/trickenbacker/Triggenbacker/ anyone got any good names for a hybrid?

[Dudgeman]

Well I bought the MIM jazz deluxe off a really nice guy called John. The frets needed a tickle and are now as smooth as a babys..he set up really nicely with a great action for me..bartolinis fitted and the originals as well. It plays so much easier than the Rick and also has a much more authentic sound for Muse than with the Ric...it also make playing Hysteria a lot easier as well as the neck on the Ric is pretty fat up there! I made a matt black pickguard for it and when we have a break in our gig schedule in Feb it is booked to be put into candy tangerine....the coolest colour. Here it is getting it's first live outing at the Sound circus, Bournemouth...
[attachment=70517:166833_1...476797_n.jpg]

will post photos after its facelift..I am a happy bunny! Thanks for all you advice

[Dudgeman]

Just thought I would do a follow up post after a year on the road with the MIM jazz deluxe. Basically I love it. The previous owner had spent a fair bit of time fettling to get an ultra low action which has really helped my playing technique and can now nail those really fast persistent notes in Stockholm syndrome. It works brilliantly with my DBS rigs to produce a great tone and variety. I use it at home when teaching through a Peavey 212 guitar amp and can almost nail a geddy sound and funk and slap and on and on..such a versatile pallet of tones.

Downside..the E saddle keeps dropping ??? WTF that is about I have no idea..but I am going to replace with a Hipshot or similar.any thoughts? Also the tuning pegs have to be changed..they hold tune OK but when the strings are loose they are all over the place and one of the tuning pegs screw holes need sorting..screws come loose. Also the control knobs have started spinning and the grub screws aren't holding properly. You think they use the same gear as on the American versions..dream on! But it was cheap..the Bartolinis sound fantastic. With an upgrade of the hardware and the change of colour that is happening in February it will be perfect.