Bad Ass Bridges. Are they really the best choice for ALL basses?

[Max Normal]

I saw these Babicz full contact bass bridges while shopping around for a bridge for my current custom build project.

[url="http://www.fullcontacthardware.com/4-bass-bridge.htm"]http://www.fullcontacthardware.com/4-bass-bridge.htm[/url]

I have always advocated the use of heavy bridges and have had a few Badass bridges in the past, and the idea behind them is that a large block of metal gives a good interface between the stings and the wood of the body, thereby bringing the natural resonance of the wood into the tone of the bass.

The Babicz bridge is about something altogether different. In fact they are deliberately fairly lightweight, and string vibration is transferred to the body by the use of bridge saddles that contact the bridge plate along their entire weight.

Some people who compared these bridges made the reasonable point that many vintage basses have very minimalist "bent plate" style bridges while still managing to sound amazing. The theory was that higher quality, more resonant wood was more available for early, quality, bass guitars, and therefore the wood had no problem displaying it's natural tone and character. Perhaps cheaper, less discriminated woods used in high-output guitar manufacture means that woods are, on average, less resonant nowadays, so a heavy metal bridge is necessary to transfer string vibration.

Conversely, if you have a particulaly resonant bass (my new project bass body is lightweight ash. it rings when you tap it), attaching a huge block of metal to it is likely to actually dampen the resonance of the natural wood, and therefore impair the tone of your guitar, so a more gentle method of resonance transfer (like the Babicz bridge), may well be the better option (and you have to admit it's pretty). This is bourne out by reviews you can easlity find on line where they have compared badass bridges with other bridges and found that in many cases the bass becomes tighter and more treble sounding.

So in conclusion, in my new opinion, if you have a dense heavy bass guitar, a Badass bridge might help you get some tone out of the wood, but if you have a light and/or resonant body, stick with a lightweight bridge or a design like the Babicz.

The sticky on Badass bridges here is huge and compelling, and to a large degree correct, but lets not get caught up in conventional dogma.

Your thoughts?

[BOD2]

As with all aftermarket add-ons (pickups, machine heads, bridges etc. etc.) the marketing people will always make a compelling case for why their piece of kit will make your bass sound better. But there's actually very little real "science" to support any of these claims.

Provided the kit is well made from good materials then it will likely sound "good". But whether or not it will make your bass sound the way you want it to - well only you, the player, can be the judge of that.

Lots of people swear by BadAss bridges. So you can be confident that they're good and well made. But lots of vintage basses also sound fantastic with the old standard bridge. There are also lots of other bridges out there that are every bit as good as the BadAss.

So yes - Babicz bridge may well sound every bit as good, or better than a BadAss on your bass. Unfortunately you cannot tell until you try it.

I would hope that the sticky about BadAss bridges here doesn't make it sound as if a BadAss is the only bridge. It's just that lots of people ask about them, which is why the sticky was written. There's plenty of room out there for any well made bridge.

[neepheid]

I think the bridge has a more subtle effect on the overall tone of a bass than some may claim. The biggest difference I ever heard (or thought I heard ) was when I swapped out an Epiphone/Gibson 3 point bridge for the Hipshot Supertone. To me it seemed the sound was more "focused", perhaps the attack was a little clearer and the notes rang out a little better, but I'm quite sure that a part of that was my brain wanting to hear that after shelling out money for the bridge, waiting for it to jump over the Atlantic, fit it, turn the place upside down for a couple of hours trying to find the imperial allen key which Hipshot had omitted to include and setting up

For me, the principle reason for swapping out bridges is one of functionality rather than tone. Any bridge that improves your ability to set up your bass better is a good thing as far as I'm concerned, be it upgrading to individual saddles from shared, individual string height instead of moving the bridge as a whole, or adding the ability to fine tune the string spacing (as not all basses are created equal, especially at my price point) then I'm all for it. Also I'm all about direct replacements, or at least ones which don't leave any visible marks.

I've had a Badass before, and the best things about it were its imposing bulk and the fact it said BADASS on it. But filing saddles (yes I know you can get notched ones)? The thick base plate sometimes necessitating neck shimming/tilting? It's not a one size fits all item, it isn't foolproof and to my mind there are far simpler ways to improve a bass than a Badass.

To answer your original question, no, in my opinion Badass bridges are not the best choice for ALL basses because they don't fit a lot of basses without modification/damage. I don't even think they're the best choice for ALL Fender basses, if that's what you meant by "ALL basses" If I was upgrading a Fender type bass then I'd go for the Hipshot A-style Fender mount, or the Schaller 3D - both of which provide the upgrade of limiting lateral saddle movement and the ability to fine tune string spacing.

[Ou7shined]

In my experience, the mass of a bridge and it's union to the body certainly seems to go somewhere to tightening your top end... a tad.
These days I tend to use "Badass bridge" on bass fora as a handy term which encompasses many of the high mass bridges on the market and leave the reader to do their own research and draw their own conclusions. At the end of the day (and I've proved this to myself) a second hand high mass £5 cheapie off ebay can give you exactly what a Badass bridge can.... but without the kudos (less kudos these days (in my book anyway) now people have hiked their "sell on" price all of a sudden). Sustain? Who knows. Who even cares. Do high mass bridges make any tonal difference? Well, yes. Is it the tonal difference that you were looking for? It would be nice. Is the resultant difference significant enough to get all het up about? No. Do members of the listening public, other musicians - including members of your band or your mum even care if you are using a Badass, a Babicz, a £5 cheapie off ebay or a Fender BBOT? Hell no.

If you put a bass up for sale with an expensive aftermarket bridge on it will it sell quicker? Probably.

[Michaelg]

my floating bridge is more than adequate

[munkonthehill]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1073162' date='Dec 30 2010, 09:08 PM']but without the kudos (less kudos these days (in my book anyway) now people have hiked their "sell on" price all of a sudden). Sustain? Who knows. Who even cares. Do high mass bridges make any tonal difference? Well, yes. Is it the tonal difference that you were looking for? It would be nice.[/quote]


sustain on a bass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!if you need sustain then your just being lazy and not playing all the tune hahahaha.

[Max Normal]

[quote name='munkonthehill' post='1073203' date='Dec 30 2010, 10:01 PM']sustain on a bass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!if you need sustain then your just being lazy and not playing all the tune hahahaha.[/quote]

Yup the whole bass sustain thing, that's another kettle of fish isn't it? Some people play really spacious basslines where good sustain is essential, while others hate it and rush out to buy flatwound strings. The rest of us learn to control the length of the note with our hands It's very subjective, but TBH how often do you normally hear sustain craving 6-string players holding a note for compared with say the bass at the beginning of Peruvian Skies or Wherever I May Roam? I like to think of it as evidence of transfer from the strings if the whole bass is resonating enough to create sustain i.e. probably resulting in a more "alive" tone. Other than that, if I wanted infinite sustain, I'd buy a sustain pedal.

[wateroftyne]

BBOT all the way...

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Max Normal' post='1073056' date='Dec 30 2010, 07:40 PM']I saw these Babicz full contact bass bridges while shopping around for a bridge for my current custom build project.[/quote]

They look very pretty but I'm not sure how much crud and gunk will need cleaning out of them if you are regular gigging bassist who tends to sweat a lot!

Am I right in assuming that to adjust the saddle height you rotate those bearings/cylinders? If so does that not mean that at one extreme of the setting that more of the string would be resting on the saddle than at the other end of the setting... isn't that going to affect sustain et al?

As I say; it looks pretty and a nice piece of engineering but from a 'sustain/tone' point of view, you could pick holes in the theory.

[Fat Rich]

Whenever I've "upgraded" bass bridges I've always been disappointed, I've used all kinds of bridge and while they're more adjustable and less rattly than the stock Fender items they make very little change to the tone. Maybe a little more sustain but also a little less of that classic Fender tone, recently I've gone back to stock Fender bridges and I prefer the sound on everything except my Marcus Miller jazz.

On the other hand my Status S2 came with monorail bridges pieces and sounded a bit floaty so I swapped them for a single piece ABM bridge and it focussed the sound and gave it much more punch which suits that bass much better. That's the one time changing a bridge has made a big difference to the sound.

But as has been said before, the audience isn't going to notice the difference so maybe it's all a bit pointless!

[Muzz]

+1 for the Schaller 3D; for two 'solid' reasons (other than hard-to-define-am-I-imagining-it? things like tone and sustain) - I like the lateral adjustment available, plus if you're a player who, like me, rests the heel of their hand on the bridge, it's a smoothly-contoured and therefore comfy profile.

[Max Normal]

[quote name='Muzz' post='1073496' date='Dec 31 2010, 10:10 AM']+1 for the Schaller 3D; for two 'solid' reasons (other than hard-to-define-am-I-imagining-it? things like tone and sustain) - I like the lateral adjustment available, plus if you're a player who, like me, rests the heel of their hand on the bridge, it's a smoothly-contoured and therefore comfy profile.[/quote]

Good call on the Schaller, looks nice, might go on my new build after all, I'll check them out. While we are on the subject, anyone used those hugely expensive individual string hipshot through bridges?

[warwickhunt]

Have the Schaller on my early Streamer and they are really good, the only improvement would be if you didn't have to drag the strings through the bridge to change them!

[Max Normal]

[quote name='Fat Rich' post='1073486' date='Dec 31 2010, 10:02 AM']Whenever I've "upgraded" bass bridges I've always been disappointed, I've used all kinds of bridge and while they're more adjustable and less rattly than the stock Fender items they make very little change to the tone. Maybe a little more sustain but also a little less of that classic Fender tone, recently I've gone back to stock Fender bridges and I prefer the sound on everything except my Marcus Miller jazz.

On the other hand my Status S2 came with monorail bridges pieces and sounded a bit floaty so I swapped them for a single piece ABM bridge and it focussed the sound and gave it much more punch which suits that bass much better. That's the one time changing a bridge has made a big difference to the sound.

But as has been said before, the audience isn't going to notice the difference so maybe it's all a bit pointless![/quote]


Considering some of the terribly fancy basses listed by users on here, a lot of it IS pointless isn't it? I have had Warwicks, G&L's, custom luthier made 5 strings, Guilds, Tokai's, Haymans etc etc, none of them sounded better than my cheapo rusty dented 1980's Japanese Fender E series. Warwick would have made a nice bit of furniture, but not the best sounding instrument i ever owned. To be honest, as i got older, I found that much of the tone was in my fingers and a damn good amplifier. Should I just put a rusty old Squier bridge on my new home made pride and joy just because the audience won't care? I gig in an Eb tuning so I have to have a concert pitch bass to learn songs with. I use an old plywood Aria ProII with about 2 winds on each of the cheapo mass produced pickups for this. Still sounds like a rock monster through my SVT though, and plays like a Warwick after much truss and bridge tweakage.

[SS73]

[quote name='Max Normal' post='1073512' date='Dec 31 2010, 10:17 AM']Good call on the Schaller, looks nice, might go on my new build after all, I'll check them out. While we are on the subject, anyone used those hugely expensive individual string hipshot through bridges?[/quote]

I would check them out first, a few points on not getting a 3d, to many moving parts which distance the resonant transfer, I had one on my Ric for years and it progressively got more and more dead sounding, I was changing strings far too often and wondering why they were going off so quickly, I found that all these moving parts were loosening up and vibrating, so the resonance wasn't getting to the body, putting on a Badass was astonishing and I hardly ever change strings.
That lateral movement is a pain when changing strings, as when you pull the string out it spins the roller and you've lost your string spacing, this roller too sits on a threaded bar that sits in a channel. Though here's a tip for you 3d's, loosen all strings raise them from the bridge and put a piece of sellotape over the rollers, they're now locked in place until you get the new ones on.

I would go with a Badass 11 these are not so mass heavy, the Badass 1 is the heavy one, or a nice Fender style one for the transfer.

Problem with the original Fender type, is with low tension strings like TI's and playing hard the saddles float sideways, whether this actually matters.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='1073516' date='Dec 31 2010, 10:20 AM']Have the Schaller on my early Streamer and they are really good, the only improvement would be if you didn't have to drag the strings through the bridge to change them![/quote]
And this is where the excellent Schaller 2000 comes in - currently my favorite off the shelf bridge.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1073470' date='Dec 31 2010, 09:33 AM']BBOT all the way...[/quote]
+1

I`ve tried Baddass/Gotoh bridges, and whilst they definately did have an effect on the sound, ultimately, they made my Fenders sound un-Fender-y.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

When I got a badass II for my jazz (with J-retro), I tried it on a precision as well to see whether it was worth ordering another, but I much preferred the BBOT on that as the badass seemed to suck out all the oomph from the attack of the notes.

So for me:
Active Jazz -> BBOT good, Badass better
Passive Precision -> BBOF good, Badass not so good

I think the badass II may have been successful as it is a really good looking bit of kit and is cool as it has the word 'badass' on it.