SG shaped bass overview

[Paul S]

I sort of fancy one of these and was wondering if it might be possible to do a kind of overview thread - there's lots of stuff dotted here and there about the different models and how they are similar/different, but it would be useful I think to have it all in one place? One thing I remember reading that struck me was that all they had in common was the same approximate body shape.

But which ones have the short scale (just the EB0?) Which have through neck/bolt ons? Do any have 38mm neck or are they all precision width? Do they all suffer from neck dive? And what is their USP? What are the ones to look out for - I would guess there are one or two Japcrap gems to be found?

[Wil]

Also, are they all as terrible as I have a feeling they are?

[GRAHAM SG1]

I have a Gibson 2009 SG faded cherry bass, it is NOT terrible, far from it .
It does not neck dive at all, is very comfortable and plays very nicely, it has a very warm fat tone from its humbuckers and the short scale makes playing very easy for people with shorter arms .
The only thing I would like to see on it would be a bit more tone range from the pick ups, it does not do treble very much, when you want those highs they are limited, other than that its great .
It has a set neck and a 40mm nut width .

Edited January 3, 2011 by GRAHAM SG1

[martthebass]

Just got the Epi EB0 which I use for the odd jam night or 'rough pub' gig. Nicely made for the price but does suffer from neck dive (despite the short scale) I guess due to the strap pin position - also the neck stap pin is f*&%ing useless.

Sounds quite trebly unplugged and like mud through an amp. The neck feels more jazz width/thickness to me - like a toy against a Precision/Ray

Despite all this I quite like it!!!

Edited January 3, 2011 by martthebass

[thodrik]

I have a Gibson EB3 circa 1974.

Neck Dive? Yes
Really heavy? Yes
Badly designed bridge? Yes
Tone controls that are more like off/on switches rather than a gradual change of 1-10? That as well
Terrible? Far from it

Its medium scale (32 inches), which means that it is not much use for anything downtuned even to drop d, but in standard tuning it really is a great bass with a unique sound which makes up for its obvious design flaws. Brilliant for blues and rock stuff. Huge natural low end means you have to be careful when adding bass through the amp. Really nice neck, although it doesn't really taper much.

[spinynorman]

I've had 2 EB3 copies. The first, the red one in the picture, cost me £150 on eBay and is classic Japcrap. Short scale, Maxon pickups (originally), bolt on neck with "Made in Japan" on the neckplate and no makers name on it anywhere.

I sold it to make way for the black one, which is an Epiphone Elitist EB3, short scale, made in Japan, imported from the US, nothing to do with the long scale Epis you get here. Apparently it's the nearest thing you can get to a vintage EB3 tone. It has all the problems listed in Thodrik's post, though it's not hard to get the hang of the bridge. The four position pickup selector has the usual Gibson choked circuits which means you're probably going to get at most 2 usable positions, though yours may not be the same as mine. It was never my primary gigging bass and I found the combination of neck dive and short scale difficult to manage when switching to it for a couple of songs, so in the end I sold it. Haven't seen one for sale here since.

Of the two, I really wish I'd kept the Japcrap one, which is really the only bass I regret selling. I think because the body is longer than the classic EB3 shape, and the smaller tuners, it was much better balanced than the Epi and actually very comfortable to play. The pickups were junk, but I replaced the bridge pickup with an EMG Select, which worked very well, though if I'd kept it I might now be looking for a Les Paul or Tbird pickup. The bridge was also junk, but I replaced that with a Schaller roller. I've seen lots of Japcrap EB3s on eBay, but they don't have that longer body shape, so I've passed on them. Some day I'll find one.

Edited January 4, 2011 by spinynorman

[Schnozzalee]

I had a German Hoyer EB3, if you could find use of the two woofier settings it was flawless.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='1076975' date='Jan 4 2011, 12:54 AM']I've seen lots of Japcrap EB3s on eBay, but they don't have that longer body shape, so I've passed on them. Some day I'll find one.

[/quote]
A bit like this?

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300509706599"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=300509706599[/url]

I have the guitar version of this & it has the elongated body, these are related to your old bass, perhaps an earlier version.

What's really infuriating is that this was listed with a £75 BIN - nearly went for it myself (just to have the pair), decided against that & went to post it on BC - but some tit had placed a bid which cancelled the BIN. Retarded.

I presently have an Antoria EB3 copy waiting (very patiently!) for me to put it back together. More news when I've done that, then.

Jon.

[evilLordJuju]

I don't know too much about other brands, but just talking Gibson/Epiphone, there is, or has been just about every variant of this bass you can imagine. There have been short and long scales, with single coils and humbuckers. Set necks and bolt-ons. And there have been various woods used for body and neck. You can not generalise, and there is almost certainly a variant to suit you.

The classic design is the [url="http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/EB3.php"]Gibson EB3[/url]: short scale, mahogany throughout, set neck and humbuckers. Thats the 1961-1971 models. The Jack Bruce/Andy Fraser sound.

I absolutely love these, but they are not to everyones taste. From 1969 they were available long scale, and from about 72 with a maple neck.

The EB0 was the one pickup version, without the bright bridge pickup. Most people want the bridge pickup.

Gibson were also making the [url="http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/KalamazooKBbass.php"]Kalamazoo KB bass[/url] - which had all the same hardware as the Gibson EB0, but with a pressed board body and a bolt-on maple neck.

In the early seventies the [url="http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/SB.php"]Gibson SB basses[/url] came out... these were quite different from the EB range, different woods/pickups/electronics - making a much punchier bass than the EB0.

The [url="http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/EB4L.php"]Gibson EB4L[/url] was the last SG bass design from Gibson under Norlin, with all models being phased out by 1979.

When Gibson became the 'Gibson Guitar Corporation' a couple reissues came out: The [url="http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/2000gibsonSGZ.php"]Gibson SG-Z[/url], Epiphone EB0 and EB3 and later the Gibson SG reissue we know know.

If you are not looking for a vintage guitar:
The Epiphone EB0 looks very much like a Gibson EB0, but bears almost now comparison sound-wise. It is different in almost every other way. These cost next to nothing, so theres going to be a difference to a £1000 Gibson.
The [url="http://www.flyguitars.com/epiphone/bass/2002epiphoneEB3.php"]Epiphone EB3[/url] is closer to the 60s Gibsons, but the long scale versions have the worst neck dive of any SG bass i've played. The pickups don't have the fatness of the originals, but this is just as likely to be a good thing as a bad thing? You can't argue with the price either.
The [url="http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/2006gibsonSGreissue.php"]Gibson SG reissue bass[/url] looks quite like a Gibson EB3, and has some similar sounds. I love mine.

Guild made some terrific SG shaped basses in the very late 60s/early 70s, and as you say, there were a lot of Japanese versions too. Few capture the classic Gibson tone though - once again, whether that is good or bad is highly subjective!

[henry norton]

The pickup on the Epiphone EB-0 is very different sounding to the Gibson version, lower output and more trebly, presumably to make it a bit more user friendly. Also, on the issue of neck dive the Korean EB-0 was mahogany necked and balanced very well whereas the Chinese made version was (is) maple which adds nearly half a pound to the weight of the neck alone and therefore doesn't feel so well balanced.

[lozbass]

I'm a big fan of the EB0 and EB3 aesthetic and have tried a lot of the Gibson - and alternative - variants over the years. There's an EB3 shortscale available from Epiphone at the moment (black, white or cherry) - nice basses that appear to be decently set-up out of the box. The various models can vary enormously in terms of balance and ergonomics (as many other posters have indicated) - the spectrum of tones across the models is also extremely broad. It's probably a good idea to try as many as you can if you have some decent shops in the vicinity. I do find that neck dive can be an issue - especially on basses with the strap pin behind upper frets on the rear of the body. If you're feeling a bit flush, have a look at the small standard Alembics (and SC models) - a slightly different take on the EB0 styling with an incredible and unique tonal palette. They're also 'racing machines' as a friend commented recently and with serious accuracy.

[Paul S]

Fantastic, just what I was looking to read. It seems the short scale bass would be the one I would be more interested in but, as I have never played on one, I need to try it out.

Gotta love Basschat.

[lozbass]

I'll be at my local Dawsons later and will have a go on one of the Epiphone EB3 short-scales (I think they had three in stock when I last looked) - I'll report back.

[martthebass]

[quote name='henry norton' post='1077022' date='Jan 4 2011, 07:05 AM']The pickup on the Epiphone EB-0 is very different sounding to the Gibson version, lower output and more trebly, presumably to make it a bit more user friendly. Also, on the issue of neck dive the Korean EB-0 was mahogany necked and balanced very well whereas the Chinese made version was (is) maple which adds nearly half a pound to the weight of the neck alone and therefore doesn't feel so well balanced.[/quote]

Do you know where the Indonesian ones fit in here H?

Mines recent (2010) with Mahogany body and neck - the pin position still allows neck dive though.

[spinynorman]

[quote name='Paul S' post='1077144' date='Jan 4 2011, 11:15 AM']Fantastic, just what I was looking to read. It seems the short scale bass would be the one I would be more interested in but, as I have never played on one, I need to try it out.

Gotta love Basschat.[/quote]

Is it just the look/vibe of the EB3 that appeals, or are you trying to emulate someone/something?

[Paul S]

It is more the look/vibe of the thing really. I'm no Jack Bruce or Andy Frazer, sadly, but both bands I am in have been known to dip into Cream/Free covers occasionally and it is a different looking bass that still fits in with the style. If I am honest I really don't need another bass but, well, you know how it is. As GAS goes this is pretty cheap stuff so i should get off lightly! I might even have a go at a doer-upper - try my hand at a re-fin or something - if the right one comes along. Need to try a shortscale first, though, and see how I get on. I get confused enough playing my headless B2A with more frets than I am used to!

[Sparky Mark]

[quote name='lozbass' post='1078221' date='Jan 5 2011, 08:15 AM']I'll be at my local Dawsons later and will have a go on one of the Epiphone EB3 short-scales (I think they had three in stock when I last looked) - I'll report back.[/quote]
I thought the new Epi EB3's were all long scale - hence serious head dive. The Epi EB0's are short scale I think.

[spinynorman]

[quote name='Sparky Mark' post='1079256' date='Jan 5 2011, 10:17 PM']I thought the new Epi EB3's were all long scale - hence serious head dive. The Epi EB0's are short scale I think.[/quote]

There are some limited edition Epi "1960s" EB3s on the UK market at the moment with dot markers and custom colours like Pelham Blue and Alpine White. There has been some discussion on various forums whether they are long scale or short, as they're not on the Epi web site anywhere and the original retailers' descriptions weren't consistent. However, the ones I've seen recently seem to have settled on long scale. The only way we will find out for sure is if someone goes to a shop and tries one. Or better still, buy one and post some pics.

[spinynorman]

[quote name='Paul S' post='1078512' date='Jan 5 2011, 01:07 PM']It is more the look/vibe of the thing really. I'm no Jack Bruce or Andy Frazer, sadly, but both bands I am in have been known to dip into Cream/Free covers occasionally and it is a different looking bass that still fits in with the style. If I am honest I really don't need another bass but, well, you know how it is. As GAS goes this is pretty cheap stuff so i should get off lightly! I might even have a go at a doer-upper - try my hand at a re-fin or something - if the right one comes along. Need to try a shortscale first, though, and see how I get on. I get confused enough playing my headless B2A with more frets than I am used to![/quote]

Makes sense. The thing is Bruce & Fraser weren't the only EB3 players, there was Chris White in the Zombies for one and more recently Jared Followill in Kings of Leon, neither of whom sound much like Bruce and Fraser. Some of that sound was down to amplification. I actually found through my rig I could do a better Cream or Free sound with a Fender Precision than I could with my EB3.

[Fozza]

I've got an Epi limited edition 1960's bass in cherry and it's a short scale.

It's not a bad bass for the money but it is quite limited in it's sound. It's sounds great playing along to 60's stuff, blues and rock so if that's your bag, why not?

I haven't found the neck dive too much of a problem but I'm hoping to stick a Hipshot Supertone on mine which will help with balance. I've also got a Dimarzio Model 1 to replace the neck pickup and I'm going to have series/parallel/single coil switching which seems to be a fairly common mod as it should give ab few more tones to play around with.

[spinynorman]

[quote name='dave.c' post='1079494' date='Jan 6 2011, 08:56 AM']..and I have it now! Great sounding bass and very well made, not heavy at all, balance is good and it doesn't really feel like a small bass.
It's got just the right vibe and the bridge pickup tone is punchy, the neck is deep but not wooly. There are two woofier settings on the 6 position switch and I'm going to experiment with different cap values to just drop the ttreble without getting wooly. (the switch puts the signal straight out through the cap bypassing the tone pot, one position for each pickup)
...and it has a sensible bridge![/quote]

6 position switch - whoa, too much choice

2 very nice basses you have there.

[JimD]

Great set of links EvilLordJuju!

Got to put this link in to Mike Watt's "Hootpage" for anyone that didn't see it in an earlier EB-ish thread

[url="http://hootpage.com/hoot_gallery-thudstaffs.html"]http://hootpage.com/hoot_gallery-thudstaffs.html[/url]

you can see his customised EB-type basses on there. As Henry pointed out in that earlier thread in the Minutemen and Firehose he played a precision with EMGs, but has moved EB-wise in the last few years whilst playing with the Stooges and other groups.

Tone-wise I have been listening to Black Sea by XTC recently (the big hits off that were Generals and Majors and Sgt Rock) as Colin Moulding plays an Epiphone Newport on there which has the same pickup as an original Gibson.

[lozbass]

I managed to pop into Dawsons in Manchester today and they have two of the shortscale Limited Edition 1960s EB3s (black and cherry) on display. Both are in the sale at £209 (until 9th January I think). I didn't have a chance to play either bass but they appear to be well put together and neatly finished. There's also a blue (Pelham?) and a cherry EBO and a couple of long-scale EB3s - all Epiphone. At £209, I'd say the shortscales are worth a punt

[spinynorman]

[quote name='lozbass' post='1079944' date='Jan 6 2011, 03:02 PM']I managed to pop into Dawsons in Manchester today and they have two of the shortscale Limited Edition 1960s EB3s (black and cherry) on display. Both are in the sale at £209 (until 9th January I think). I didn't have a chance to play either bass but they appear to be well put together and neatly finished. There's also a blue (Pelham?) and a cherry EBO and a couple of long-scale EB3s - all Epiphone. At £209, I'd say the shortscales are worth a punt[/quote]

Shame they don't seem to be offering that deal on-line.

[Shaggy]

I'm a confirmed vintage Gibson fetishist, but these and the Ripper / Grabbers have never really done it for me.

Some iconic players have played them though - my favourite would have to the great Jim Lea of Slade (or was his a John Birch "copy"?)