Ou7shined Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I swapped my J Reflex Reds over from my old fretless into my new home-build project but they no longer work - it may have been something to do with the new pots I got off fleabay being utter crap and actually carrying voltage on the shaft and my guess is that the Reflex pre-amp module is now fubared*. Seeing as I specifically wanted to give the bass a dress rehearsal at this wee intimate pub gig we did last night I opted to wire them up passively for the time being, which was fine except the guitar is extremely extremely quiet (I had both the input and output knobs on my Evo500 round to 11 and both pups turned up to max on the bass just to get something close to being loud enough - ended up going through the PA) bearing in mind the pots are only 10k. * while wired as active - put through the passive input in my amp you get barely audible sound, put through the active input you get lovely clear nice sounding bass but only in 3 second intervals - I guessing the amp is cutting out because the signal is bad. Presuming that the pre-amp IS blown, rather than shelling out for new pups I was thinking of fitting one of [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130170324364&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003"]these[/url] but I'm worried that as they are probably designed to convert ordinary passive pups to active that they will be woefully under powered by my uber quiet Reflex Reds. Wadaya think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 No-one? Perhaps this would do better over on General Discussion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I'm not sure which of the Artec preamps the ebay guy is on about. I've been to the Artec site and can't find exactly what he's offering. The closest I could find is this (where some of the auction description was lifted from) [url="http://www.artecsound.com/mt2.html"]http://www.artecsound.com/mt2.html[/url] I only have experience of the Artec SE series: [url="http://www.artecsound.com/se2.html"]http://www.artecsound.com/se2.html[/url] [url="http://www.artecsound.com/se3.html"]http://www.artecsound.com/se3.html[/url] [url="http://www.artecsound.com/se3p.html"]http://www.artecsound.com/se3p.html[/url] which you can get from Thomann and probably other places too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mybass Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='123527' date='Jan 19 2008, 08:25 PM']I swapped my J Reflex Reds over from my old fretless into my new home-build project but they no longer work - it may have been something to do with the new pots I got off fleabay being utter crap and actually carrying voltage on the shaft and my guess is that the Reflex pre-amp module is now fubared*. Seeing as I specifically wanted to give the bass a dress rehearsal at this wee intimate pub gig we did last night I opted to wire them up passively for the time being, which was fine except the guitar is extremely extremely quiet (I had both the input and output knobs on my Evo500 round to 11 and both pups turned up to max on the bass just to get something close to being loud enough - ended up going through the PA) bearing in mind the pots are only 10k. * while wired as active - put through the passive input in my amp you get barely audible sound, put through the active input you get lovely clear nice sounding bass but only in 3 second intervals - I guessing the amp is cutting out because the signal is bad. Presuming that the pre-amp IS blown, rather than shelling out for new pups I was thinking of fitting one of [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130170324364&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003"]these[/url] but I'm worried that as they are probably designed to convert ordinary passive pups to active that they will be woefully under powered by my uber quiet Reflex Reds. Wadaya think?[/quote] Are these actives? I'm sure I tried some many many years ago. They used 10k pots. If they are active and I may be stating the obvious, they will need a battery, NOT just plugging into the "active" input on your amp. The passive/active input on an amplifier generally acts as a level input control for low/high volumes FROM the particular passive or active bass guitar. I wouldn't think that using a pre amp designed for passive p/ups would help IF you have active p/ups in your bass. Do check the wiring again, making sure the battery connections (if any) are wired correctly. My experience of any type of signal loss, (basses, guitars, mikes, cabinets) has very often been faulty or broken wiring. Brrrr, could be new p/ups! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Cheers for the links Matt. The more I look at these the less I feel for them ([url="http://www.artecsound.com/se3.html"]this[/url] would be nice though) I'm just not sure they're gonna amplify the Reds enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='124621' date='Jan 21 2008, 02:06 PM']Cheers for the links Matt. The more I look at these the less I feel for them ([url="http://www.artecsound.com/se3.html"]this[/url] would be nice though) I'm just not sure they're gonna amplify the Reds enough.[/quote] Well, if you're willing to wait a wee while (like pay day) I'm going to order an SE-2A for my OLP MM3, so we can give it a shot with your Reds first if you like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='mybass' post='124613' date='Jan 21 2008, 02:03 PM']Are these actives? I'm sure I tried some many many years ago. They used 10k pots. If they are active and I may be stating the obvious, they will need a battery, NOT just plugging into the "active" input on your amp. The passive/active input on an amplifier generally acts as a level input control for low/high volumes FROM the particular passive or active bass guitar. I wouldn't think that using a pre amp designed for passive p/ups would help IF you have active p/ups in your bass. Do check the wiring again, making sure the battery connections (if any) are wired correctly. My experience of any type of signal loss, (basses, guitars, mikes, cabinets) has very often been faulty or broken wiring. Brrrr, could be new p/ups! Good luck.[/quote] Yup active for deffo. Maybe I didn't word it correctly but I had it wired as an active circuit (battery in circuit) and as a passive (different/simpler configuration, minus the battery) and I was just checking the diff in the inputs on my amp. I wasn't expecting magic just experimenting - and I think that the different resultant outputs are interesting/relevant. Believe me Matt and I spent hours on this and I can now solder and de-solder this thing with my eyes shut - but I'd prolly burn myself. Maybe if I get a minute I'll up the active diagram and someone can check it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='neepheid' post='124638' date='Jan 21 2008, 02:21 PM']Well, if you're willing to wait a wee while (like pay day) I'm going to order an SE-2A for my OLP MM3, so we can give it a shot with your Reds first if you like...[/quote] Bonzer idea mate! (btw Mel spoke to Scoot and he will be in touch. His own bee in a biscuit tin was giving him jip this w/end so he was a bitty preoccupied ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Ok here my attempt at a circuit diagram for the Reds. I'd be awfully glad if those in the know could see if this makes sense. but as it stands it is now wired exactly like [url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=std_jazz_bass"]this[/url]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mybass Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='124640' date='Jan 21 2008, 02:22 PM']Yup active for deffo. Maybe I didn't word it correctly but I had it wired as an active circuit (battery in circuit) and as a passive (different/simpler configuration, minus the battery) and I was just checking the diff in the inputs on my amp. I wasn't expecting magic just experimenting - and I think that the different resultant outputs are interesting/relevant. Believe me Matt and I spent hours on this and I can now solder and de-solder this thing with my eyes shut - but I'd prolly burn myself. Maybe if I get a minute I'll up the active diagram and someone can check it for me.[/quote] Thats good, and set me right too as I didn't quite get the gist of what you wrote. Your wiring looks correct but, I'm looking at the green output from the pre amp going to a tag on the tone pot that is then earthed out? Just checking with/for you that it is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='mybass' post='124803' date='Jan 21 2008, 05:17 PM']Thats good, and set me right too as I didn't quite get the gist of what you wrote. Your wiring looks correct but, I'm looking at the green output from the pre amp going to a tag on the tone pot that is then earthed out? Just checking with/for you that it is correct.[/quote] Aye that's how I've been wiring it up. Do you think that greeny's dodgy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 I should add that though I've wired it exactly as the passive diagram I'm still using all the 10k pots and the 0.47 cap coz that's all I have. I this why it is so quiet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 On a quick estimate, the pots are way too low a value - should have 250k - 500k logs pots for volume, and 250k - 500k linear pot for the tone. I don't know what the green wire is doing? Is it an output, input or an earth? Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) The 10k's I know are right for the active as I have the original branded ones. As for the green it's anybody's guess - I have never been able to find a proper wiring diagram for it. [b]edit[/b] : If I put in higher value risistors while passive will it be louder? Edited January 21, 2008 by Ou7shined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='124987' date='Jan 21 2008, 08:09 PM']As for the green it's anybody's guess - I have never been able to find a proper wiring diagram for it. [b]edit[/b] : If I put in higher value risistors while passive will it be louder? [/quote] A wiring diagram would help At the moment your tone pot is doing nothing. Try connecting the blue wire to earth, and connect the green wire to the centre tab of the tone pot, then connect the centre tab of the tone pot to the tip of the output jack. Cut the earth connection between the top tab of the tone pot and the back of the tone pot, and replace it with the 0.47 cap. If that don't work, try swapping the blue and green wires Adding higher value resistors while passive should make it quieter. Good luck Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Hamster' post='125042' date='Jan 21 2008, 09:26 PM']At the moment your tone pot is doing nothing. Try connecting the blue wire to earth, and connect the green wire to the centre tab of the tone pot, then connect the centre tab of the tone pot to the tip of the output jack. Cut the earth connection between the top tab of the tone pot and the back of the tone pot, and replace it with the 0.47 cap. If that don't work, try swapping the blue and green wires [/quote] Thanks Hamster I'll give that a bash. Although I must say the tone pot was doing something when wired as active - when wired as passive (with the cap as you suggest) it made negligible difference but again that might be down to the odd values of the cap & pot. [quote name='Hamster' post='125042' date='Jan 21 2008, 09:26 PM']Adding higher value resistors while passive should make it quieter.[/quote] That's what I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 Just having a flick through the net before getting the soldering iron out again and I found [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=405423&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1"]this[/url]. The sixth post from [b]A M Littley [/b] seems to concur exactly with my diagram. There's also a mention further down that hint to the success of an Artec MT2 pre-amp as a substitute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='125080' date='Jan 21 2008, 10:16 PM']Thanks Hamster I'll give that a bash. Although I must say the tone pot was doing something when wired as active - when wired as passive (with the cap as you suggest) it made negligible difference but again that might be down to the odd values of the cap & pot. That's what I thought. [/quote] The cap value is what you would expect - but not the pots. Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 The comments [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191198"]here[/url] on TalkBass from [b]Stratman [/b]and [b]miktit [/b]are interesting too - although I think miktit is saying that the white should come from the tone pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='Ou7shined' post='125137' date='Jan 21 2008, 11:36 PM']The comments [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191198"]here[/url] on TalkBass from [b]Stratman [/b]and [b]miktit [/b]are interesting too - although I think miktit is saying that the white should come from the tone pot.[/quote] That will work. Wire it up as the passive schematic you linked to ( [url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=std_jazz_bass"]http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wirin...c=std_jazz_bass[/url] ) but don't connect the centre tab from the tone pot to the jack tip. Connect the white wire to the centre tone pot tab, and then the blue wire to the output jack. As for the 10k pots - the pickups must be putting out a seriously weak signal! Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 [quote name='Hamster' post='125151' date='Jan 21 2008, 11:58 PM']As for the 10k pots - the pickups must be putting out a seriously weak signal![/quote] Believe me they are utter wimps (which is why I'm worried about the Artec EQ's) but when the pre-amp is working properly the output is phenomenal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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