DanOwens Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 [url="http://mrdfowens.tumblr.com/post/2623154214/thats-not-music-its-just-ones-and-zeros"]CLICK[/url] New blog on MIDI bass, products and some of my experiences. As usual, I think that this will be elaborated on in a later post but for now I've established the fundamentals of MIDI bass. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 And yes, I've missed the V-Bass but I intend to cover modelling later on. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 How did control voltage fit in to the history bit, did it just predate MIDI and be not good enough to be useful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatEric Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 For someone who is almost electronically blind, can just about master all the variations on a BT500 Head and has an arsenal of pedals including an EQ and a chorus . . . . . and, erm nothing else, this is all a bit mind boggling but very interesting. I intend to educate myself and try and work my way through it. The knee bone's connected to the thigh bone, the thigh bone's connected to the hip bone. . . . . . . . . Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1080559' date='Jan 6 2011, 11:05 PM']How did control voltage fit in to the history bit, did it just predate MIDI and be not good enough to be useful?[/quote] The problem with CV/Gate stuff is that it is very limiting. With control voltage, you send only one signal down a cable; granted, you can assign that signal to more than one parameter, but you can still only send one signal. With midi, you can send a variety of signals all controlling different things. You can also send from many sources to many destinations and have them not interfere. CV stuff is great if you want to control a filter cutoff or LFO speed. It's no good if you want to send a polyphonic instrument part, LFO depth and speed information and a instrument change message; all of which is quite easy to do. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 [quote name='DanOwens' post='1082053' date='Jan 8 2011, 01:17 PM']The problem with CV/Gate stuff is that it is very limiting. With control voltage, you send only one signal down a cable; granted, you can assign that signal to more than one parameter, but you can still only send one signal. With midi, you can send a variety of signals all controlling different things. You can also send from many sources to many destinations and have them not interfere. CV stuff is great if you want to control a filter cutoff or LFO speed. It's no good if you want to send a polyphonic instrument part, LFO depth and speed information and a instrument change message; all of which is quite easy to do. Dan[/quote] hmmm, not sure if id use the words "very" & "limiting" to describe CV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Interesting read. I wasn't aware that the GR20 was MIDI though, I thought it was the same as the Vbass in that each string is processed via the extra pickup and the unit processes that without any pitch to MIDI conversion at all. Everyone says the Vbass is MIDI because it uses a 13 pin connector but I thought the only time MIDI is involved is if you want to dump all your settings to an external device via the MIDI output. In terms of the actual unit signal chain, no MIDI, hence no latency on the Vbass unit, at least? ped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Interesting read as always Dan (sorry you miss the BMS... I'm taking care of her). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Hey Tuco, I'd strongly assert that compared to MIDI, CV is very limiting and as such, largely reduntant. And Ped, accordingly to the websites and manuals I've read, both the GR20 and V-Bass MIDI-Out can be used to control external devices: [url="http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/GR20WS03.pdf"]PDF regarding GR20's use with external sequencers[/url] and the VB-99 has a 'Bass-to-MIDI feature'. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Interesting, thanks Dan. ped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='DanOwens' post='1083015' date='Jan 9 2011, 11:41 AM']And Ped, accordingly to the websites and manuals I've read, both the GR20 and V-Bass MIDI-Out can be used to control external devices: [url="http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/GR20WS03.pdf"]PDF regarding GR20's use with external sequencers[/url] and the VB-99 has a 'Bass-to-MIDI feature'. Dan[/quote] The later VB-99 might have Midi out, but the earlier V-Bass does not. Midi output is pretty much limited to dumping configurations, as Ped says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikanHannille Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Very good read. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Hi Pete, Yes, sorry, I meant the VB-99. Thanks! Out of curiosity, how many of us regularly use pitch-to-midi or have done in the past? Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 That was a good read. I was wondering about the Line6 thingy, but I guess you'll cover that under modelling? CV predates MIDI by some 15 years or so & was used by Roland, Sequential Circuits, Yamaha & many others until the early 80s saw this new phenomenon (I marvelled at this technology as a kid). You did get CV sequencers, but they was limited in a lot of ways & as more synths became polyphonic & more complex, CV wasn't up to the new tasks at hand (I still look at MIDI as a fairly new product!). I'm enjoying playing with the CV in my moogers, it gets some interesting effects. Looking forward to the next instalment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 When considering the CV vs. MIDI question, I was thinking about the MoogerFoogers. I was thinking 'wouldn't it be great if you could control all those parameters with a single cable?'. I suppose the reality is that you couldn't without sacrificing the absence of digitised processing, but bloody 'ell all them cables can be a mess! Which Line6 product were you thinking of? The Variax? Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 [quote name='DanOwens' post='1085917' date='Jan 11 2011, 07:11 PM']When considering the CV vs. MIDI question, I was thinking about the MoogerFoogers. I was thinking 'wouldn't it be great if you could control all those parameters with a single cable?'. I suppose the reality is that you couldn't without sacrificing the absence of digitised processing, but bloody 'ell all them cables can be a mess! Which Line6 product were you thinking of? The Variax? Dan[/quote] i LOVE all them cables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 It was the Variax that I was thinking of (couldn't mind the name of it). Even thought about buying one a few times. The Moogs would need a load of wires to control them & couldn't half look a mess! They do a Midi MuRF but I haven't anything to link one to anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 [quote name='Tuco' post='1086003' date='Jan 11 2011, 08:15 PM']i LOVE all them cables [/quote] You sadist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherairsoft Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 If you could control multiple parameters on Foogers with one cable imagine what you could do with the MP-201! I have 3 Foogers, 2 of which hooked up to the 4 channels of the MP-201. Imagine being able to run one pedal off each channel and effect all parameters of that pedal... Your never need another effect pedal! Shep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 If Moog continue to develop the MoogerFooger product line I see some amazing things happening. The MoogerFoogers are great as they are: great ideas boxed into great pedals. They're not perfect though. I'd like them to be quieter, with less tone-sucking and a level control so you can balance the 'Drive' knob and use it to shape tone as well as get a level (the LPF sounds sweet overdriven, but man it gets LOUD). I love them, but my wishlist gets longer and longer. I know that it's a balancing act but boy when I think about it I would love to see some changes; one of which is MIDI implementation. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wud Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 C.V and Gate based systems might seem unwieldy but are still valid IMHO, and just ask any analogue synth nut. MIDI is great, but is really beginning to show it's age... Many companies have looked into a new standard to replace MIDI, but sadly no universal desire to adopt a new standard has arrived as of yet. MIDI can fall over quite easily due to it's serial architecture. Using lots of real time Sysex MIDI control can cause timing issues with any note data being transmitted on the same MIDI channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 Any links Wud? I'm interested in reading about possible replacements. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 [quote name='DanOwens' post='1087134' date='Jan 12 2011, 07:51 PM']If Moog continue to develop the MoogerFooger product line I see some amazing things happening. The MoogerFoogers are great as they are: great ideas boxed into great pedals. They're not perfect though. I'd like them to be quieter, with less tone-sucking and a level control so you can balance the 'Drive' knob and use it to shape tone as well as get a level (the LPF sounds sweet overdriven, but man it gets LOUD). I love them, but my wishlist gets longer and longer. I know that it's a balancing act but boy when I think about it I would love to see some changes; one of which is MIDI implementation. Dan[/quote] I don't understand what you mean by "tone sucking"? I heard a few people saying it was a tone sucking pedal before I bought it. I've tried plugging the bass direct into my rig & then thru just the MF-101. The difference I found was that the MF-101 appeared to add more lower frequencies to my sound when bypassed (as not true bypass) & then when engaged it's obviously not gonna matter (unless it's when you have the filter fully open, in which case you can disengage). The LPF can be noisy, but it's remedied by insulating the sides with copper paper & keeping it on it's own psu. A level to balance the drive would have been good, but I suppose if you're happy to have the drive on all the time, then it's a case of setting your amp to the level you want. The MF-105b has true bypass & has the level control so you can get a nice switchable o/d sound at the same level (which would have been a nice option to have on the LPF) & doesn't have the noise issues that the LPF does. I wonder if a CV to MIDI converter would allow you to control the parameters via midi? I've never used one before but it would be interesting to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanOwens Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) I use the term 'tone-sucking' broadly; perhaps I should've said 'tone-colouring'. What I mean is that whether the pedal is engaged or bypassed, the signal always passes through the preamp in the pedal meaning the drive circuit is always engaged. As such, if you want a saturated LPF sound from the pedal, you have to put it in a true-bypass loop otherwise you'll always have the distortion engaged. Rarely, but occasionally nonetheless I want a crystal clear sound, and the pedal can't do this. The symptom of the lack of level control is that if you want that saturated sound, the loop has to have a level control otherwise the drive control will boost the signal too much. Admittedly, the drive control is intended to balance level rather than colour tone, but when it sounds so good, how can I not... Edited January 13, 2011 by DanOwens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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