How important are pickups?

[Skol303]

Yeah, this is probably a dumb question, but heh!

I'm just wondering how important pickups are to the overall sound of a bass?

I'm currently working on an old second-hand bass as a DIY "do-er upper", and I'm considering replacing the pickups (once I've learnt how to solder a bit better, that is!). The bass in question is a Hohner Rockwood LX90B - it's a cheap P-bass copy, with split-coil passive pickups.

My limited understanding of such things mean I see pickups as being little more than lumps of magnet wrapped in copper coil - I know there's more to it than that (!), but at the moment I don't understand what I'd be paying for if I invested in a pair of sw***y new pickups (e.g. a pair of P-bass pickups via evilBay or similar). Given this is a cheap bass (less than £100 brand new), is it really worth replacing them or should I stick with what it's already got?

Any info gratefully received as always

[Mog]

Ah, the lx90b, my first bass (dunno if it was a Rockwood though, I thinks that badge came in a little after I got mine) . Shipped with decent pups and outdid MIM P basses in reviews at the time. Pups can make a hugh difference, particularly cheap £10 ones when compared to something up at the £50-£70 end. I'd suggest getting a DiMarzio pre-wired scratch plate. Great sounding pups.

[icastle]

[quote name='Skol303' post='1080160' date='Jan 6 2011, 05:29 PM']Yeah, this is probably a dumb question, but heh!

I'm just wondering how important pickups are to the overall sound of a bass?

I'm currently working on an old second-hand bass as a DIY "do-er upper", and I'm considering replacing the pickups (once I've learnt how to solder a bit better, that is!). The bass in question is a Hohner Rockwood LX90B - it's a cheap P-bass copy, with split-coil passive pickups.

My limited understanding of such things mean I see pickups as being little more than lumps of magnet wrapped in copper coil - I know there's more to it than that (!), but at the moment I don't understand what I'd be paying for if I invested in a pair of sw***y new pickups (e.g. a pair of P-bass pickups via evilBay or similar). Given this is a cheap bass (less than £100 brand new), is it really worth replacing them or should I stick with what it's already got?

Any info gratefully received as always [/quote]

I have a few things spring to mind here.

It's never going to be anything other than a £100 bass regardless of what pickups you fit to it - you could potentially be fitting the musical equivalent of £800 worth of super posh tyres to a rusty Ford Fiesta.

Having said that, if you want to gain some expertise in upgrades, then this would be the bass to try it out on.
You could chop and change wiring, play with the setup and generally try 'hairbrained' ideas out - safe in the knowledge that you're not going to wreck an expensive bass.
Parts could always be swapped back and retrieved at a later date for reuse in something better.

[Truckstop]

And if you spend £100 on a set of pickups and it still sounds rubbish, you've still got £100 pickups to put in another bass someday and you've learnt how to solder/install pickups!

Truckstop

[Skol303]

^ Cheers Mog, that's good advice... those DiMarzio pickups look right up my street

I'm amazed that you used to own a LX90B! There's not much about them on Google and I've yet to meet anyone else who even knows what the hell I'm talking about when I mention it. Not a bad little bass at all - I've just converted mine to fretless and it plays very nicely.

PS: off topic... but just noticed that the word "sw***y" (as in "showy" or expensive) was automatically moderated in my original post. Reminds me of the following UK place-names, which have been known to cause problems:

Penistone (the noise made by one's private parts??)
Clitheroe (a hero of women everywhere...!)

[Skol303]

^^ Thanks to the rest of y'all too...

Yeah, I'm thinking that this is a good opportunity to learn some new skills and practice DIY on a bass that wouldn't cause me to weep if I messed it up! And as truckstop says, I'd still have a set of decent pickups at the end of the day... [that's my kind of thinking- i.e. the sort that's used to justify spending money! ]

[Mog]

[quote name='Skol303' post='1080187' date='Jan 6 2011, 05:46 PM']^ Cheers Mog, that's good advice... those DiMarzio pickups look right up my street

I'm amazed that you used to own a LX90B! There's not much about them on Google and I've yet to meet anyone else who even knows what the hell I'm talking about when I mention it. Not a bad little bass at all - I've just converted mine to fretless and it plays very nicely.

PS: off topic... but just noticed that the word "sw***y" (as in "showy" or expensive) was automatically moderated in my original post. Reminds me of the following UK place-names, which have been known to cause problems:

Penistone (the noise made by one's private parts??)
Clitheroe (a hero of women everywhere...!) [/quote]
Still own and still use it lad. Great little bass, rock solid. Price tags/Brands count for nothing IMO. Hohner did some fine instruments over the years.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Skol303' post='1080160' date='Jan 6 2011, 05:29 PM']Yeah, this is probably a dumb question, but heh!

I'm just wondering how important pickups are to the overall sound of a bass?

I'm currently working on an old second-hand bass as a DIY "do-er upper", and I'm considering replacing the pickups (once I've learnt how to solder a bit better, that is!). The bass in question is a Hohner Rockwood LX90B - it's a cheap P-bass copy, with split-coil passive pickupsI'm just wondering how important pickups are to the overall sound of a bass?....My limited understanding of such things mean I see pickups as being little more than lumps of magnet wrapped in copper coil - I know there's more to it than that (!), but at the moment I don't understand what I'd be paying for if I invested in a pair of sw***y new pickups (e.g. a pair of P-bass pickups via evilBay or similar). Given this is a cheap bass (less than £100 brand new), is it really worth replacing them or should I stick with what it's already got?...[/quote]
Pickups are very important, they are the voice of an instrument.

Arguably the worst thing with cheap basses/guitars are their cheap pickups and not necessarily the rest of them - because the rest of the hardware should actually be able to do what they are designed to do to for the most part. If you name a crappy bass people immediately associate with the tone they are renowned for (which is why selling on a modded or upgraded bass rarely gets you back what you put in - people can't disassociate their preconceptions from the original) and that's down to the pups.

The plus side is that it is not very hard to get yourself a killer sounding bass. My first ever project bass was to all intent and purposes made from crap (Chinese mass production body and neck) but incorporated Lindy Fralin pups and an Aguilar OBP-3 at 18v. The thing has a dynamite tone - seriously I would be beaming right across my face at gigs just listening to my own sound. I would get feckall for it if I wanted to sell it because it doesn't have a name on the headstock although to me it sounds better than many top production models.

In short, if you can find a cheap bass with a good neck on it, throw some good pups (and maybe a pre) at it and you will unleash it's potential. You may have to tighten up on some of the sub par build quality but overall it should be a good performer.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1080361' date='Jan 6 2011, 08:07 PM']....Personally and this could open the can of worms I reckon the PUPs and strings can have more of an influence on tone than what the body is made of.[/quote]
You won't be getting any arguments from me about that.

[GreeneKing]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1080389' date='Jan 6 2011, 08:22 PM']You won't be getting any arguments from me about that. [/quote]

Absolutely, pickups, strings and the pre-amp of course if it's active. Oh and the player too;)

[mikhay77]

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='1080403' date='Jan 6 2011, 08:30 PM']Absolutely, pickups, strings and the pre-amp of course if it's active. Oh and the player too;)[/quote]
+1 Bar After setting up a bass ie truss rod bridge height and intonation and a set of decent strings,pups are the single most important parts to upgrade,preamp too if your active.The rest of the bass costs are the woods used and hardware but as long as it stays in tune and the bridge is adjustable I would put a well set up cheap bass against a poorly maintained expensive one.Point to make I bought an amp recently and on collection I tested it with the guys Wal,old strings very high action and crackling electronics.If I it didnt have the make on the headstock I would of thought it was a piece of c**p.My point is,Pick ups,yes but the rest needs to be set up well too,no matter how cheap ( or expensive )

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1080361' date='Jan 6 2011, 08:07 PM']Personally and this could open the can of worms I reckon the PUPs and strings can have more of an influence on tone than what the body is made of.[/quote]

John Birch (godfather of British custom guitars) insisted the same was true & was pioneering a new pickup right up to his death. He used maple on his guitars' necks & bodies because it was cheap to get when he first started. It was his default wood unless someone asked for another kind.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Big_Stu

[Skol303]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1080311' date='Jan 6 2011, 07:39 PM']My first ever project bass was to all intent and purposes made from crap...[/quote]

^ That honestly made me laugh out loud, nice one I was picturing some 'wattle and daub' bass with flies buzzing round it...

Thanks again for useful feedback here, folks. The bass I'm doing up (Hohner Rockwood LX90B, as mentioned) is a nice little player - I've just converted it to fretless and I'm very happy (surprised in fact) with how well it plays and sounds. The action is a little high, as I've yet to properly adjust the nut after removing the frets, but I've strung it with some lightweight flats (40-90) that sit low in the nut and help to lower the action overall. I've checked the intonation and it seems fine, but I'm no expert on that front! (i.e. the 12 fret on each string harmonises perfectly fine with the open strings.... but I've got no more technical understanding than that). The current pickups looks cheap but the overall sound is ok - great bottom end but lacking in treble.

Generally speaking it's very playable, which is why I'm now set on doing it up as a DIY project. Pickups are now definitely in the pipeline after reading comments here. I'll post again once I've got round to changing them (with pics!) and will no doubt be pestering y'all again for advice if/when things go wrong...

[ezbass]

The biggest immediate impacts on tone are the transducers in our signal path. Transducers (for the those not in the know) are things that change energy from one form to another. In our signal chain these are pick ups (mechanical energy into an electric current) and speakers (the reverse of pick ups). si in answer to the OP's question how important pickups are to the overall sound of a bass? The answer is HUGE. Probably been said above but I'm feeling super lazy and haven't read all the posts, so apologies for any repetition.

[Adrenochrome]

THE biggest thing (assuming decent scale length, reasonable strings, frets etc). Fact.

Players that believe in Mojo, Reliccing and other assorted witchcraft will as usual disagree.

[Lozz196]

For me, pickups & speakers are the things that make the most difference to the sound, followed by the type of wood. Mahogany/alder, they each have their own characteristics etc.

[Ancient Mariner]

I reckon it's well worth making the change. I have a super-cheap J type here that I popped at set of Fender Geddy Lee PUs in, and it transformed the tone.

[Slipperydick]

Absolutely.

And you dont need to spen a fortune, I've used Kent Armstrong and Wilkinsons picups ( usually off ebay) on Bitsas and tried em on cheap copies. Made a huge difference for noralorramoney.

Anybody else like Kent Armstrong P picups, or am I on my own ? Never seem to see mention of em on here.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Slipperydick

[kerley]

Agree. I changed the pickups in my Crafter Cruiser to some Kent Armstrongs I got used from eBay for £15 and the improvement was very, very noticeable. Much clearer and refined sound. I recently bought a much more expensive Ibanez which although played as well as the Crafter, did not gel with me as much so only had it two weeks!
I only own one bass and it somehow feels wrong to own one that cost £60 (used) but it plays and sounds as good as any others I have owned. I just keep having to tell myself that as I am constantly drawn to more expensive basses. Must become more of a buddhist bassist I think and find contentment with what I have...