silverfoxnik Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Hi Folks Having moved my Lakland DJ5 on, I've now got a 1998 USA Fender Jazz 5 to play with and it's surprisingly, a very nice bass! But it's got Ken Smith jazz pick ups in it, like the ones fitted in the KSD range which don't quite match up with the string spacing, particularly where the E & B strings are concerned.. Luckily I have the original pick ups as well and I'd like to refit them because I'm pretty sure they will sound better and be a lot quieter and most importantly, they will match the string spacing exactly. So, does anyone know if there's a thread on here about how to change pick ups over so that even a luddite like me could do the job..Or could anyone offer some simple advice on how to do it? Thanks for the help.. Cheers Nik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguyhomer Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 I've had a go myself Nik, and if you're any good with a soldering iron (I'm hopeless) it's easy. To make sure I connected everything back correctly, I took a photograph for reference and didn't experience any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Nik, Its a piece of cake, PM me if you need help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted January 20, 2008 Author Share Posted January 20, 2008 [quote name='niceguyhomer' post='123687' date='Jan 20 2008, 10:43 AM']I've had a go myself Nik, and if you're any good with a soldering iron (I'm hopeless) it's easy. To make sure I connected everything back correctly, I took a photograph for reference and didn't experience any problems.[/quote] That's a good idea Homer, thanks mate! Will definitely do that now that you and Bob suggest it's within my limited capabilities.. Cheers Bob - I expect the scenario will go like this: 9.00pm - Nik takes strings & scratchplate off bass 9.03pm - takes picture as per Homer's suggestion 9.04pm - takes Ken Smith pick ups out 9.08pm - Swears repeatedly and, send PM to The Burpster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='The Burpster' post='123694' date='Jan 20 2008, 10:47 AM']Nik, Its a piece of cake, PM me if you need help.[/quote] Not quite the piece of cake I thought it might be... Pick ups in, much quieter and more even tone across all the strings but when putting the pick up balance control in the centre, the pick ups sound out of phase???? Sorry - forgot to mention that this bass has an EBS pre-amp and the controls are vol/balance/bass/treble. Any thoughts? Nik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='124307' date='Jan 21 2008, 01:16 AM']Not quite the piece of cake I thought it might be... Pick ups in, much quieter and more even tone across all the strings but when putting the pick up balance control in the centre, the pick ups sound out of phase???? Sorry - forgot to mention that this bass has an EBS pre-amp and the controls are vol/balance/bass/treble. Any thoughts? Nik[/quote] It's straightforward. If memory servers me correctly, there are three pins coming out the middle of the epoxy resin on the preamp. Trace the cables back to the the pickups in place. There should be a hot and a common ground. Note what goes where, remove and solder the new ones in. If you are still struggling, give me a shout back and I'll see if I can find my notes on the preamp. PS - there should also be a toggle switch on the preamp to activate the sweepable midrange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Urrrm 'they sound out of phase'? Define please.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='124318' date='Jan 21 2008, 02:07 AM']It's straightforward. If memory servers me correctly, there are three pins coming out the middle of the epoxy resin on the preamp. Trace the cables back to the the pickups in place. There should be a hot and a common ground. Note what goes where, remove and solder the new ones in. If you are still struggling, give me a shout back and I'll see if I can find my notes on the preamp. PS - there should also be a toggle switch on the preamp to activate the sweepable midrange.[/quote] Cheers for the help guys but I have had two goes at this now and failed for some reason I can't quite fathom (apart from my obvious stupidity). When I looked at what I had done yesterday, I realised I had the pick ups in the wrong place; i.e bridge p/u in the neck position and vice versa! So, tonight I refitted them into their right places, swapped the wiring over accordingly and thought that all would be OK.. But it's still doing this wierd 'out of phase' thing where, when a pick up is solo'd, it sounds great. But when the balance control is in the centre, the sound of both pick ups sounds thin, almost flanged or phased which is bloody odd! As a complete guess, I think it's something to do with a fundamental difference betwen the way KSD pick ups need to be wired into the EBS pre-amp which is completely different to how the Fender pick ups would need to be wired in.. But right now I'm too knackered and p*ssed off to think it through.. And even then I doubt I'd come up with the right answer.. So, it's off to see Bernie at the weekend I think! I'll let you know what happens.. Thanks again. Nik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD2 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Could the pickups actually be wired out of phase with each other ? There should be two wires from each pickup - a "hot" and a "ground". In a passive bass both "ground" wires would be connected together to the ground of the bass (usually one of the pot shells) and the "hot" of each pickup goes to the volume or balance control. If you connect one of the pickups round th worng way (i.e. "hot" to the ground connection and vice versa) then each pickup will sound ok on its own but will sound "out of phase" with each other when played together. Can you trace the ground/hot from the pickups to make sure they're ok ? As long as both pickups have the SAME hot/ground wiring it should be ok. Failing that....say hello to Bernie for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 [quote name='BOD2' post='125344' date='Jan 22 2008, 11:18 AM']Could the pickups actually be wired out of phase with each other ? There should be two wires from each pickup - a "hot" and a "ground". In a passive bass both "ground" wires would be connected together to the ground of the bass (usually one of the pot shells) and the "hot" of each pickup goes to the volume or balance control. If you connect one of the pickups round th worng way (i.e. "hot" to the ground connection and vice versa) then each pickup will sound ok on its own but will sound "out of phase" with each other when played together. Can you trace the ground/hot from the pickups to make sure they're ok ? As long as both pickups have the SAME hot/ground wiring it should be ok. Failing that....say hello to Bernie for me [/quote] Hi BOD2, That's kind of what I've been thinking about today - i.e. swapping round one of the pick up's wires first to see what happens.. And then if that doesn't work, swapping round the other pick up's wires.. I'll give it a try again tonight. At the moment, each pick up has one wire that goes to the EBS pre-amp and the other wire goes to a common ground.. Trouble is, because the colour of the KSD pick up wiring was different to the colour of the Fender pick up's wiring and the EBS wires from the pre-amp are different again, there's no easy fix using colour coding.. Hence my confusion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 [quote name='BOD2' post='125344' date='Jan 22 2008, 11:18 AM']Could the pickups actually be wired out of phase with each other ? There should be two wires from each pickup - a "hot" and a "ground". In a passive bass both "ground" wires would be connected together to the ground of the bass (usually one of the pot shells) and the "hot" of each pickup goes to the volume or balance control. If you connect one of the pickups round th worng way (i.e. "hot" to the ground connection and vice versa) then each pickup will sound ok on its own but will sound "out of phase" with each other when played together. Can you trace the ground/hot from the pickups to make sure they're ok ? As long as both pickups have the SAME hot/ground wiring it should be ok. Failing that....say hello to Bernie for me [/quote] Gave that a try last night but it made no difference so I'll say hi to Bernie for you! Pretty confused now so it's over to the expert... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='125884' date='Jan 23 2008, 06:23 AM']Gave that a try last night but it made no difference so I'll say hi to Bernie for you! Pretty confused now so it's over to the expert...[/quote] Saw Bernie on Saturday and he's sorted the problem out for me thankfully! At first, he thought it was a faulty pole piece in one of the pick ups, but it turned out to be a wiring problem in the end, between the pick up and the pre-amp. Bernie was amazed by this as he's never seen anything quite like it because the faulty wire seemed to affect only the A string?? But, by completely replacing the wire, it's now all working as it should so I'm much happier now He did me a great deal on it as well, i.e. charged me way under what he should have done for the work - brilliant! He's a really good player too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Humm great story, and just goes to illustrate how simple things can make such a difference..... Glad its sorted..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 [quote name='The Burpster' post='128562' date='Jan 27 2008, 10:45 AM']Humm great story, and just goes to illustrate how simple things can make such a difference..... Glad its sorted.....[/quote] Thanks for the help btw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 No probs..... you still want me to look at that spare bridge you have......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Good to hear it got sorted... and Bernie is a super player as you say, really got some stunning skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickThomas Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Are they improvement on the Ken Smiths Nik? Also how do you like the ebs pre-amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 (edited) [quote name='NickThomas' post='128751' date='Jan 27 2008, 04:08 PM']Are they improvement on the Ken Smiths Nik? Also how do you like the ebs pre-amp?[/quote] Hi Nick, The original p/ups obviously fit the bass properly so the volume across all the strings is really even now, with the B string being very well defined and clear, so I'm really happy about that. Plus, these are the noiseless p/ups so they are much quieter than the KSDs and mean that when you solo the pick ups or even just favour one more than the other, there isn't that horrible single coil hum.. But, I must admit that having said all that, I think the KSDs had a slightly better tonal quality to them.. On balance though, this is the better way to go. I like the EBS pre-amp - it's not too hi-fi sounding thankfully and the mid boost is really useful.. But I'll reserve judgement on it until I try it out at a gig but so far so good Thanks Bob; do you know, I'd forgotten about that with the B string saddle on my Roscoe Beck, sorry! TBH, I can't even remember if I still have it or I put it on the bridge that I sent back to owen?? I'll have a look okay.. Cheers Nik Edited January 27, 2008 by silverfoxnik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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