bubinga5 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I will start this off by saying, im up for anyone playing an exact version of a bassline... But... it always gets my goat when someone says..."yeah but its not quite the bass line is it"?? i had a discussion with a guitarist this evening whos in the Latin Funk, Disco band im involved in... he likes...and likes everyone else to follow the exact blue print of the original...i aint got a problem.......ok i have got a problem with this... A bass line is written by someone else, but why not simplify it, or throw in some fills, or feel of your own...i like to think im a very tasteful player, who understands what (i think) sounds good... maybe were having musical differences... when im playing, sometimes i will just just suggest a bass line or chord without playing the whole thing in an intro or some parts of a song....thats what i like to do, and i think it gives it a little live something that original doesnt have... Ive heard bass lines played ..better than the original...slightly different...simplified.... as long as your within the structure and get the feel of the track... Chic's Good Times...i will throw a double stop of G C sharp in there high up... not a total DS but played G to C very quick..does he like it... nope... Rant over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I think unless you're in an 80's cover band and have to double synth basslines then you should just have fun. The vast majority of my gigs have been pubs/functions/original stuff, so I've always felt free to embellish a little (alright, sometimes a lot) and thoroughly enjoyed myself. Obviously there are certain figures and licks that you'll HAVE to play (Good Times being one), but I wouldn't sweat it. That said, I've also done 'pit' shows and recitals where it's an MD/Conductor gig, and in this situation THERE SHALL BE NO DEVIATION FROM THE SCORE!!! Your mate is simply a guitard, and doesn't know any better, if he wants to stress over the 1/4 tone bend during a specific chromatic quintuplet phrase in an AC/DC song then fine, it could also be that Angus just slid his hand down the neck and slipped a bit in the middle... I still reckon punters at gigs would rather see a band enjoying themselves than grimacing their way through 2 45s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I am not one for ripping lines..but you have to get the jist of it...and if you deviate, then make that a better slant, if possible. If the line is better, then you can do what you want..if it isn't then..stick to the reference. And it is a bit rich for a gtr to do so picky......change to a few horn keys and see what he does then ha ha ..!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) I'm playing in a tribute band at the moment and at first I was trying really hard to get the basslines spot on as per the original recorded version. Then you hear a live album version and it can be completely different! Now I tend to play with the original sprit/style but add my own flourishes/simplifications where I deem appropriate. I think it has a lot to do with the other musicians in the band; e.g. the drummer may play with a slightly different feel to the original version, so you play something that's more in keeping with what's happening in the moment. Edited January 7, 2011 by Roland Rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul h Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I would rather not play than play someone else's bass line note for note and as RR says, most bands don't play songs live exactly as they are recorded so why should I? As long as I get the feel right and have fun I'm happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I think it depends on the song itself. Example I`d use is Eton Rifles by The Jam. No way would I want to play that in any other way than how it was recorded, as the bassline is the mainstay of the song, whereas if I`m playing something like Paranoid by Black Sabbath I`ll put some fills in to make it sound more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeBrownBass Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Almost any & every song i learn, i transcribe. I've always learnt it note for note and then taken it from there. I find its a nice way to do it as you can actually analyse what the original player did and why but then put your own turn on it. Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Unless the bass line is something I'm really keen on replicating (I've been playing Anthony Jackson's stuff with Chaka Khan for fun recently and I wanted to get the lines as close to correct as possible), or the song relies on the bass line for melody or very strong harmonic support, then I'll just approximate the bass line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I think it's quite a talent to get a bassline note perfect but I always prefer the creative process of putting my own stamp / twist on something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='BurritoBass' post='1081692' date='Jan 8 2011, 12:14 AM']I think it's quite a talent to get a bassline note perfect but I always prefer the creative process of putting my own stamp / twist on something.[/quote] i agree and i dont.... sitting down and listening to a bass line just takes time with the bass a CD and the internet..... being creative over that bass line within tasteful limits takes much more..IMHO Edited January 8, 2011 by bubinga5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 If there was a "rule book" for composing and playing music it wouldn't be as much fun would it? Still, I suppose we could make one up. How about: [i]Rule no. 1 : There are no rules. Rule no.2 : see Rule no. 1[/i] There, that should cover it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 [quote name='Roland Rock' post='1081593' date='Jan 7 2011, 10:28 PM']I was trying really hard to get the basslines spot on as per the original recorded version. Then you hear a live album version and it can be completely different![/quote] So true of most of the covers I play, I'll more often that not check out live versions of songs Im to learn, often they give great ideas for fills etc And for covers bands like I play in, it can also depend on what other instruments are in the mix to weather you make the line more or less busy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigthumb Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I play in three gigging cover bands and have been playing covers for about 10+ years. I have never sat down and worked out the EXACT bass line to anything, I simply couldn't be arsed to! There are obvious songs like Dancing in the Moonlight *[i]shudders[/i]* where the bass has to be pretty darn close but whether or not its exact I dont know, or care. And being in a pretty limited band I find that I have to do a hell of a lot more with some songs that is on the original. Anyway who down the Pig and Whistle on a Saturday night is going to care anyway? I think if I were asked to play things exactly it the recording I would be looking for another band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Your most important job is to get the feel right. After that it depends on the number and how your playing situation is determined. I'm playing with a singer/songwriter who wants the lines to be exactly what was written and another who says, "just do what you want". Both sound great. You have more leeway in a cover band but might have to be exact in a full blown tribute band. Some numbers don't give you any choices, like You Really Got Me, Black Dog or almost anything by Chic but others will let you stretch out. Be sensitive to the situation and use enough brain power to realise that just because you thought of a new bass line to a number doesn't make it any good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I kinda get the Guitarists point of view. He might not think to his ears that it fits or sits. Why would you want to mess with Good Times? using double stops [however short] Bored of playing it maybe? showing you know two notes from the A7 chord? Just looking at it from his point of view. He might be having the same rant on Guitarchat about you right now..... Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 This is a bit of a sore point with me and our band. I have never bothered to learn a bass line note for note and probably never will, unless it is the main part of the song and needs to be exactly as the original. I like to think I am being creative, even if in reality it's just me simplifying things cos I'm not good enough to play the original! Our guitard on the other hand, likes to learn his riffs, solo's etc note for note. He claims that people in the Dog & Duck on a saturday night, will be able to tell if its "not right" This is why its taken him 10 months to learn a one hour set, and I can learn 3 songs in an evening with youtube, a tabs site, and a pair of headphones! As someone on here once said "nobody notices the bass player unless he's on fire" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I think learning the actual bassline to songs is a good staring point. However, I don't believe a cover should be played just like the original & think it shows a lack of creativity (unless it's a tribute band). In my opinion a cover would be your take on how the song would be had you written it. We cover songs that I've never heard before & just get told what the chords are & make it up on the spot (we only do 2-3 covers in a set, max). Most known acts that I've been to see don't play their songs like they are on the albums & the majority of punters still enjoy the gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I enjoyed your post 4-string-thing, in my experience there is a big difference in the quality of the end result from someone who has really learned a piece versus and someone who is "busking" their way through it. I disagree that the audience do not notice the difference though; when everything is "right", the music is taken to another level that you will rarely, if ever reach when busking parts. In saying that, with the best will in the world there is not always time to learn songs note perfect. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I'm also of the other school of thought - if you're going to do a cover why do it exactly the same way 500 other bands would have done it? Why not put your own twist on it? See the examples below... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5w_hSUUG1c"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5w_hSUUG1c[/url] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1WAMNIunKc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1WAMNIunKc[/url] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tV0lgCKtyQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tV0lgCKtyQ[/url] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO1zDwYfq_s&feature=fvst"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO1zDwYfq_s&feature=fvst[/url] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10qLYy6hiFQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10qLYy6hiFQ[/url] See how artistes these have given these tracks a new lease of life? - they didn't play them note for note...who's to say whether they are better or worse because of it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 [quote name='endorka' post='1081934' date='Jan 8 2011, 11:27 AM']I enjoyed your post 4-string-thing, in my experience there is a big difference in the quality of the end result from someone who has really learned a piece versus and someone who is "busking" their way through it. I disagree that the audience do not notice the difference though; [u]when everything is "right", the music is taken to another level that you will rarely, if ever reach when busking parts.[/u] In saying that, with the best will in the world there is not always time to learn songs note perfect. Jennifer[/quote] You would agree though that there is the exception when a band is busking or trying something in the early stages of learning/writing a song where things can just 'happen'! I've had many occasions when I've played something with a band (or other musicians in some form of impromptu jam/busk) and the fact that everyone is bringing something different to the mix (both a known cover or a basic chord progression/structure) just fires off some creativity and you reach greater heights than you would with a song that is refined and/or rehearsed to death! I love it when that happens in front of a live audience. A classic example is that my present band have been together about a year and some of our finest moments have been when we are just running through new covers and we are all flexing to see where the song will go (we do covers pretty close to the originals but they can and do go where the moment takes us). Some of the ideas we 'busk' out stay in the song and to get to my point; often songs that end up very polished don't inspire me as much as those early busked sessions. I'm not disagreeing that some/many busked sessions can lead to nowhere and aren't as good from an audience perspective as a well rehearsed number but I believe that those people who are genuinely into music can enjoy it when a band are firing on all cylinders with ideas bouncing off each other in a 'busked' manner... Does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigthumb Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I think that there is a big difference to somebody 'busking' or fumbling their way through a song than putting a bassline down thats say 95% there but at least dose all the recognisable riffs, runs etc. I've played gigs in front of other guys in bands who have never noticed anything different or even my cockups! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 [quote name='bubinga5' post='1081700' date='Jan 8 2011, 12:31 AM']i agree and i dont.... sitting down and listening to a bass line just takes time with the bass a CD and the internet..... being creative over that bass line within tasteful limits takes much more..IMHO[/quote] [quote name='xgsjx' post='1081931' date='Jan 8 2011, 11:25 AM']I think learning the actual bassline to songs is a good staring point. However, I don't believe a cover should be played just like the original & think it shows a lack of creativity (unless it's a tribute band).[/quote] What's all this talk about creativity? Playing a line spot on does not show that the player is lacking on creativity. Depending on the song or gig,it is more likely to show that you can't be arsed to learn the song. I'm not saying you have to be note perfect,but 'busking' a slightly different fill doesn't make you more creative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipperydick Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I spose it depends on the type of material you play. Some things have to be recogniseable, you wouldnt change the solo in Alright Now would you ? or as has been said, you wouldnt alter Eton Rifles by much. To me, getting the feel is the, main thing. I dont have a great ear and I sometimes struggle to work stuff out for myself, If I can find a tab I'll make use of it, but wont learn it note for note- usually mistakes in em anyway- I Always prefer to find chord charts and work from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 [quote name='flyfisher' post='1081704' date='Jan 8 2011, 12:36 AM']If there was a "rule book" for composing and playing music it wouldn't be as much fun would it? Still, I suppose we could make one up. How about: [i]Rule no. 1 : There are no rules. Rule no.2 : see Rule no. 1[/i] There, that should cover it. [/quote] Or better yet.... 1. There are rules 2.You should know them before you can break them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 [quote name='BurritoBass' post='1081692' date='Jan 8 2011, 12:14 AM']I think it's quite a talent to get a bassline note perfect but I always prefer the creative process of putting my own stamp / twist on something.[/quote] +1 Unless its a classical piece I'll put the odd twist on a tune 99% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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