Sadowsky or Valenti?

[birdy]

[quote name='yamahabass' post='132555' date='Feb 2 2008, 01:48 PM']I wouldnt get either basses, they are just 'parts' basses, sadowsky just screws the body and the neck plus hardware together.
the parts come completely made and finished from places like Warmoth and Guitar Parts, so its a question of screwing a neck onto a body plus some fret work. Many will argue that he sets it up like a magician but you're paying 1000 dollars for the parts and 2000 dollars for the setup. Id rather pay 3000 dollars to Celinder or Sei to build me something by hand. Just my Opinion by the way.[/quote]

I don't care how they are made or what out of. Its how they sound and play that justifies the cost relative to what you are prepared to pay.

Your point above also takes no account of the Sadowsky pick ups and electronics which are unique to Sadowsky.

Steve

[yamahabass]

[quote name='birdy' post='132607' date='Feb 2 2008, 04:43 PM']I don't care how they are made or what out of. Its how they sound and play that justifies the cost relative to what you are prepared to pay.

Your point above also takes no account of the Sadowsky pick ups and electronics which are unique to Sadowsky.

Steve[/quote]
well they were originally based on Dimazio jazz bass pickups, thats what he was using right up until he brought
out his own brand which sound very similair.

yea he doesnt actually build anything, all the parts are bought in. He may have some samples from the parts shops that he buys from, sure.

[birdy]

How or what he builds is irrelevant its the finished product that has been DESIGNED and QC checked that is important. If he overcharged for what he did no one would buy them.

At the end of the day you don't have to like Sadowsky basses, they certainly aren't for everyone but to disregard them as parts basses is a shame.

What an individual pays for a bass is down to what they want it for and their expectations. The Metro's and NYC basses should be identical but for whatever reason there is a subtle 2-3% in my opinion thats better about the NYC's.

Lets not forget that the more you pay the less improvement you get also. You can buy a £1000 that may sound twice as good as a £200 one but a £10,000 probably wont sound twice as good as a £2000 if you get my point.

Its all down to what level of playability and tone you want against what you are prepared to pay for it in my opinion.

Steve

[quote name='yamahabass' post='132646' date='Feb 2 2008, 04:31 PM']well they were originally based on Dimazio jazz bass pickups, thats what he was using right up until he brought
out his own brand which sound very similair.

yea he doesnt actually build anything, all the parts are bought in. He may have some samples from the parts shops that he buys from, sure.[/quote]

[dub_junkie]

are the bodies and necks for both these brands manufactured inhouse from wood blanks?

and why are valenti and sadowsky not a fair comparison? if something is a third of a price but can still hold its own then whats wrong with the comparison?

sorry I'm a bit ignorant of these brands(hence the questions) but they both do look a bit special amongst the many J clones around.

[dub_junkie]

thanks for the explanation David. I believe the Pensa-Suhr guitars were made the same way back when they were considered the dogs danglies and Knopfler was playing them.
cheers

edit : forgot to ask,did you get the mm5 Baritone?

Edited February 3, 2008 by dub_junkie

[iamthewalrus]

[quote name='yamahabass' post='132555' date='Feb 2 2008, 01:48 PM']I wouldnt get either basses, they are just 'parts' basses, sadowsky just screws the body and the neck plus hardware together.
the parts come completely made and finished from places like Warmoth and Guitar Parts, so its a question of screwing a neck onto a body plus some fret work. Many will argue that he sets it up like a magician but you're paying 1000 dollars for the parts and 2000 dollars for the setup. Id rather pay 3000 dollars to Celinder or Sei to build me something by hand. Just my Opinion by the way.[/quote]

There is a statement from Roger Sadowsky himself on one of the (many) Sadowsky threads on Talkbass regarding the Warmoth parts issue.

Having read it, I can understand where he's coming from & even though I've never played one, still have respect for the guy as a custom builder. I'd still buy one if money was no object.

Cheers,
iamthewalrus.

[Toasted]

[quote name='yamahabass' post='132555' date='Feb 2 2008, 01:48 PM']I wouldnt get either basses, they are just 'parts' basses, sadowsky just screws the body and the neck plus hardware together.
the parts come completely made and finished from places like Warmoth and Guitar Parts, so its a question of screwing a neck onto a body plus some fret work. Many will argue that he sets it up like a magician but you're paying 1000 dollars for the parts and 2000 dollars for the setup. Id rather pay 3000 dollars to Celinder or Sei to build me something by hand. Just my Opinion by the way.[/quote]

You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.

[Toasted]

From the horses mouth posted over on TB:

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4974503#post4974503"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.p...503#post4974503[/url]

[i]It's been a while since I posted this. It also addresses the Fender vs Originality questions. Here it is again for Mark and any other newbies on Talkbass!:

1) Several people have posted and commented that Sadowsky uses Warmoth parts. I would like to address this for what I hope will be the last time. I did use some Warmoth parts during the 80's and have ordered an occasional neck from them for some of our repair customers during the years. However, Sadowsky has not used any Warmoth necks or bodies on their basses for at least the last 10 years.

2) Regarding subcontractors....Many instrument companies use subcontractors. It is very difficult to balance quality and maintain costs. If we were making every body by "hand" (which no one really does), costs would be absurdly high and consistancy would be very low. The average cost of a CNC machine (a computerized carving machine), with software, is about $125,000.00. Because that is beyond the means of most of us "smaller" guys, there are companies that own these machines who make parts for the "rest of us". Sadowsky, Lakland, Lull, Turner and lots more of us use various subcontractors. I know this takes some of the "romanticism" out of the process for you, but that is the way it is.

Regarding our electronics---when you go through hundreds of circuits a year, you don't hand wire each one by hand. You design the circuit, make the prototype, and then you outsource it to a shop than just makes circuit boards!

I had to make an important decision about 20 years ago. I could set up shop where I could do all the woodworking by myself. This would have meant locating where there are very few professional players. Instead, I chose to locate in the middle of Manhattan, where the top players could easily get to my shop. As long as I had good subcontractors I could depend on, I felt it more important to have the one-on-one and the indespensible feedback from the top players. This was also motivated by the fact that I still do a lot of repair and restoration work. I have never regretted this decision. It is hard to make a "working musician's" instrument if you don't have many working musicians to interact with.

I build a Fender style instrument because that is what my clientele demands of me. 20 years ago, it was almost impossible to walk into a studio in NYC with anything other than a Fender. In fact the Union directory had two bass listings: Upright Bass and Fender Bass! All electric basses were referred to as Fender bass. There was a great deal of pressure on the bassists to only bring a Fender to a session.

If I had a couple of million dollars, I could set up my own manufacturing facility outside of the city, but I can only be in one place at one time so it works just as well to use the subcontractors.

Keep the following in mind: We purchase all of our wood directly. We hand build all of the "prototypes" that get sent to the subcontractor. We own all of the fixturing and programming. We continuously monitor the quality of our parts to be sure they are worthy of the Sadowsky name.

The bodies come into our shop unsanded. We do all of the edge contouring, finish sanding and hand fit every neck pocket to get a perfect fit to our necks. Many of our bodies get additional routing and shaping done in our shop.

The necks come in unsanded. We true each fingerboard one at a time, fret the necks, dress the frets, finish sand the necks, and spray the necks. On custom orders, we hand shape the neck too.

Our assembly process is impeccable with regard to the quality of our components and workmanship.

So I hope you can see that we definetly are a "hands-on" shop. I could not have achieved the reputation I have if I were simply buying a neck and body and "screwing them together". I think anyone who has had the opportunity to play a Sadowsky can appreciate the quality of the instrument. That doesn't mean they are for everyone---instrument choice is very subjective. What is nice is that all of us....Sadowsky, Lakland, Mike Tobias, Spector, Fodera, etc....all have lots of players that think we make the best instrument in the world! It's kind of perfect that way---don't you think? You don't have to disparage the other builders just because you prefer someone else's instruments.

Lastly, many people speculate on this forum about issues related to Sadowsky without ever bothering to email me directly with their question. I am here and I am happy to answer all of your emails individually.

Hope this clears things up for some of you.

Sincerely, Roger[/i]

[ped]

[quote name='Toasted' post='133481' date='Feb 4 2008, 10:58 AM']What is nice is that all of us....Sadowsky, Lakland, Mike Tobias, Spector, Fodera, etc....all have lots of players that think we make the best instrument in the world! It's kind of perfect that way---don't you think? You don't have to disparage the other builders just because you prefer someone else's instruments.[/quote]


Word

[planethead]

First up thanks to all who supplied meaningful information, comment and insight in response to my original query. It wasn't my intention to start a fire but you give some folks matches....

My NYC J-bass is now on order from Sadowsky and my P-bass from Valenti.

Next project on the drawing board is a custom valve serial compressor loosely based on the Altec 436C

TTFN

Ian

[Brother Jones]

[quote name='7string' post='131004' date='Jan 30 2008, 10:30 PM']Yup, I have to agree with that as well.

Sadowsky are at the top of the tree if you want something more traditional looking. I remember many moons ago back at the Bass Centre in Wapping there was a beautiful Sadowsky on the wall. Superb quilt maple in caramel burst with a maple 'board. All I could do was just stare at it in wonder.

Lottery-time, I'll have a Sadowsky as well [/quote]

I remember that bass - or at least think I do - sometime in the mid to late nineties? Played it, fell in love with it. Just....couldn't...quite afford it.

[7string]

At least Roger Sadowsky is being up front and honest about the way he makes his basses. I'd still buy one... and if I find one in my budget when I'm in the USA in April then I might

[quote name='dlloyd' post='133345' date='Feb 3 2008, 11:28 PM']I've got a pair of Seymour Duncan pickups sitting here that would probably work nicely in it and it would probably make sense to get Jimmy Egypt and co to install them.[/quote]

After seeing how much they charge for things, I'd dig out the soldering iron...

[bassjamm]

Just to clear up...i believe that Valenti basses used to be made from Warmoth necks, however, Nino now makes his own!!!

And whilst i appreciate you've made your oders...what's the matter with Mike Lull basses??? I've been able to play a few of his basses, as well as some Sadowsky's...personally i'd buy a Lull, not only are they cheaper, but the feel and sound, for me, was more pleasing!!!

Not trying to put a downer on this whole thing...just trying to put out some happy words of bassage on the Lull department!!!

[ped]

I saw a really nice Lull at the Gallery last time I went. It looked very nice. The bast Jazz basses I have played to date however are Kiwi's Celinder (Ex. Flanker) and my old Bacchus Jazz. I haven't spent any proper quality time with a Sadowsky and never seen a Valenti in the flesh, but I plan to meet them both ASAP!

[7string]

See I usually hate Jazz basses, but I would have a Sadowsky or a Lull.

I've read nothing but great, great things about Mike Lull's basses. Another brand to add to the list when I go to the US in April for a whole 26 days !!

[bassjamm]

Yeah, the Gallery have a Lull in at the moment...a trully killer bass, huge tone!!! Would be a wicked gig bass, the sound is massive...try r'n'b/funk machine!!! Well over-priced though...the UK dealer sells them new for less than the second price it's up for!!!

I'm toying with the idea of forgetting a vintage 4 string Fender...bring on a 5 string Jazz Lull Beast!!!

I just can't get over how reasonably priced they are compaired to their competitors...headstock design isn't the hottest i don't think, but the sound and feel does it for me!! Lull is where my money would go. The Celindar's are pretty hot though as you say Ped, too pricey for my liking though!!!

Of course...if jazz looks aren't everything, and sound is the priority...an F Bass is a contender I guess i would say that though being an F Bass lover

[ped]

Every time I have heard an F bass being played on a record, in the context of the whole mix it always strikes me how similar they sound to a really good modern Jazz bass.

[bassjamm]

[quote name='ped' post='137423' date='Feb 10 2008, 01:15 AM']Every time I have heard an F bass being played on a record, in the context of the whole mix it always strikes me how similar they sound to a really good modern Jazz bass.[/quote]

It's true mate, they nail the sound so well...but have sooooo much else to offer in my opinion! I a/b'd with my old jazz quite rigerously on a few occasions...if recorded, you couldn't pick them apart. If you kick the circuit in, you can get pretty much any modern take on the Jazz sound. But then you have the whole humbucker thing too for the thicker, mellower sound. The electrics are pretty awesome...when you've got you're head around having 6 knobs, 2 of which are push/pull, lol!!!

I love mine...but they have an extremely polite sound. Not as honky as some jazz copies...not like Ari's old Atelier, that thing had honk man, enough for anyone to get down to, lol!!! I don't think they have the rudest sound out there, very much a polite, good in the mix sound...they won't jump out and grab you, but they'll certainly lay there, keep the groove sounding sweet...and when called upon to shine through, they have an elegant touch.

Still...something like a Lull, with a bit more guts would be welcomed, hehe!!! Having said that, and you know this only too well Ped, i'm learning mroe and more about my F Bass the more i play with it (the whole single-coil / humbucker thing, lol)...i can get it to sound a lot better than i used to now i know how to use the damn thing

[bassaussie]

[quote name='bassjamm' post='137409' date='Feb 10 2008, 12:44 AM']Just to clear up...i believe that Valenti basses used to be made from Warmoth necks, however, Nino now makes his own!!!

And whilst i appreciate you've made your oders...what's the matter with Mike Lull basses??? I've been able to play a few of his basses, as well as some Sadowsky's...personally i'd buy a Lull, not only are they cheaper, but the feel and sound, for me, was more pleasing!!!

Not trying to put a downer on this whole thing...just trying to put out some happy words of bassage on the Lull department!!![/quote]

You lucky bugger!! I own a couple of Sadowskys, but the one brand I've always wanted to do a side by side with is Lull. When I bought my first Sadowsky, it was a real toss up between ordering one from Roger or getting Mike Lull to make me a bass, and the thing that swung it for me was the preamp. 6 or 7 years down the track, I have absolutely no regrets, as I still love playing that Sadowsky, but the curiosity about Lulls has always remained.

[bassaussie]

[quote name='ped' post='137423' date='Feb 10 2008, 01:15 AM']Every time I have heard an F bass being played on a record, in the context of the whole mix it always strikes me how similar they sound to a really good modern Jazz bass.[/quote]

I was very close to buying an F Bass 6 string for this exact reason, as I'm a big fan of Jazz basses. Unfortunately, the F Bass I tried didn't do very much for me, and I never really investigated the brand any further. I was told at a later date from an independent source who was familiar with the bass I tried that it was actually a rather bad example of F Basses, so I guess I'd always be keen to try another.

[bassjamm]

The beauty of the Lull's is that they have an upgrade option to the Sadowsky pre-amp...heheheheeeee

As for the F Basses...definately worth investigating further, i've only played my one, but i know the gallery are stocking them now, and that one or two other users on here have one! I think i'm the only person with the Studio 5 model about...not the BN5, essentially the same, just slight differences!!!

[birdy]

I have played Flankers F bass on a couple of seperate occasions and its a very special bass. I really struggle getting a 5 string that suits me in terms of playability but Flankers was really nice and sounded fantastic and is extremely versatile also.

Steve

[bassaussie]

[quote name='synaesthesia' post='137931' date='Feb 11 2008, 02:54 AM']Valenti is now using the team at USA custom guitars as a subcontractor.[/quote]

Actually, I think he's moved on from them to another company. He mentioned it on Talkbass a few months back.