Switching from 2 ohm to 8 ohm

[Guest MoJo]

Recently, I have been running my Peavey Max 450 into two 4 ohm Peavey 410TVX cabinets. Despite them being a right royal pain in the ass to move about (and get in the back of my Rover 400), I just don't need to shift that much air. I only need to hear myself over our (admittedly quite loud) drummer. I'm thinking of switching to a single 210TX and the one available is 8 ohm.

The 450 Max head is rated at 450W @ 2 ohms, 300W @ 4 ohms, or 170W @ 8 ohms. How much 'real' volume difference is there between 450W and 170W or even between 300W and 170W?

[Lozz196]

I think in terms of actual volume you won`t notice too much (assuming that yr amp isn`t maxed out with yr current setup), but because of the vast reduction in the amount of air you`ve been pushing, - from 8x10 to 2x10 - it will seem that you are suddenly much quieter, whereas in reality it will be the "bigness" and presence that has disappeared, not the actual volume.

I think in this situation, looking at a good fairly lightweight 4x10 could be an answer. I use a 4x10 & 2x10 purely for the "bigness" of the sound. My 4x10 is easily able to do the volume on its own, I just like the larger presence with both.

I put up a post similar, and apparently the difference between using my amp at 4ohms and 8ohms equates to about 3db difference in volume, if the amp is running flat out. So with the 8ohm cab, you should be ok. Plenty of good 4ohm 4x10s about though.

[chris_b]

Going from 450 watts to 170 watts and 810's to 210's and with a loud drummer..... you won't hear any bass at all. Neither will anyone else!

I'd try 1 410 first and if that is still not right, ie too heavy, I'd try 2 neo 210 cabs.

Edited January 9, 2011 by chris_b

[flyfisher]

Surely the difference will also depend on the efficiency (sensitivity) of the new speaker cab?

[Conan]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1083046' date='Jan 9 2011, 12:17 PM']Surely the difference will also depend on the efficiency (sensitivity) of the new speaker cab?[/quote]

Sounds like he's changing from one Peavey to another - so the sensitivity should be similar, but with far fewer speakers and less power.

However you figure it, that has to result in a drop in perceived volume...

[LawrenceH]

You could rewire the 8ohm 210 to 2ohm.

[Lozz196]

I think in this situation, looking at something like an Eden Nemesis 410 would be the way to go.

102db sensitivity, 4 or 8 ohm option (could then get the 300 watts from the amp), 52 lbs so much easier to cart about, £389 at The Bass Merchant. From all accounts, Darren at The Bass Merchant is also a good guy to deal with.

[Phil Starr]

the drop from 450 to 170 is 2.5dB and from 300 to 170 is 1.76dB. you will also lose some efficiency when you reduce the number of cones you are using. Using multiple cones causes all sorts of problems as the cones both reinforce and cancel the sounds each creates depending upon the phase of the sound. Ignore that last bit if it is gobbledegook. It means that the sound is beamed and what you hear depends upon where you stand.

1dB is just noticeable, 3dB is noticeable but not dramatic, 10dB is what you need to be twice as loud. I'd guess that you'll be about 6dB down. Noticeable but not half the volume.

170W through a decent 2x10 ought to be enough for most situations but it does depend upon the tone you use. If you use a mid balanced tone it will be fine, if you use a lot of deep bass then it won't and you'll need more headroom. The audience will probably hear you but you may have trouble hearing yourself. Place the 2x10 on its side so one speaker is on top, which gives the best dispersion, and point it at your ears if you can.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='bassman2790' post='1082948' date='Jan 9 2011, 05:18 AM']How much 'real' volume difference is there between 450W and 170W or even between 300W and 170W?[/quote]Not enough to be concerned with, because for the most part watts are moot.
What does limit output is driver displacement. Going from a total of eight tens to two reduces displacement by 75%, which combined with the 75% reduction in power handling reduces maximum potential output by 12dB. In simple terms a 2x10 will sound somewhat less than half as loud as two 4x10s. You're probably best off going to a pair of 2x10s , that way you can use the one if the gig is small enough to get away with it, both when it isn't.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1083158' date='Jan 9 2011, 02:23 PM']Not enough to be concerned with, because for the most part watts are moot.
What does limit output is driver displacement. Going from a total of eight tens to two reduces displacement by 75%, which combined with the 75% reduction in power handling reduces maximum potential output by 12dB. In simple terms a 2x10 will sound somewhat less than half as loud as two 4x10s. You're probably best off going to a pair of 2x10s , that way you can use the one if the gig is small enough to get away with it, both when it isn't.[/quote]

To add to that I'd recommend sticking with the Peavey brand and finding a 2nd 2x10 to go with the one that you are likely to get. Stacked on their side/end you'll find that they will do a more than commendable job in a live situation.

[icastle]

[quote name='bassman2790' post='1082948' date='Jan 9 2011, 10:18 AM']Recently, I have been running my Peavey Max 450 into two 4 ohm Peavey 410TVX cabinets. Despite them being a right royal pain in the ass to move about (and get in the back of my Rover 400), I just don't need to shift that much air. I only need to hear myself over our (admittedly quite loud) drummer. I'm thinking of switching to a single 210TX and the one available is 8 ohm.

The 450 Max head is rated at 450W @ 2 ohms, 300W @ 4 ohms, or 170W @ 8 ohms. How much 'real' volume difference is there between 450W and 170W or even between 300W and 170W?[/quote]

According to the Peavey website the 210TX and 210TVX cabs are both rated at [b]4Ω[/b] - so you might not be losing as much power as you first thought (assuming the 210TX you are looking at hasn't been changed).
You could always use a pair of 2x10s if you need to move more air - might be easier to lug around if your rig is in two smaller pieces!

[TimR]

The sensitivity of the 4x10 is 97dB the 2x10 is 95dB.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='TimR' post='1083564' date='Jan 9 2011, 08:38 PM']The sensitivity of the 4x10 is 97dB the 2x10 is 95dB.[/quote]
If these figures are correct then in your position I would play a gig with just one 4x10, which won't cost you anything to try. You will be 7dB (ish) down overall. I think what you will notice more is that with a lower stack you will no longer have speakers at ear level. I predict it will be loud enough, but that will depend on many things including your personal preferences. If you are worried then keep the other 4x10 in the car ready for the second half. If it does turn out to be OK then you can follow the 2x10 option. There are more sensitive 2x10's than the Peaveys out there.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Phil Starr

[Mr. Foxen]

Are the handles on those peavey 2x10s side stacking friendly? I had one and totally don't remember.

[TimR]

[quote name='Phil Starr' post='1083884' date='Jan 10 2011, 07:27 AM']If these figures are correct then in your position I would play a gig with just one 4x10, which won't cost you anything to try. You will be 7dB (ish) down overall. I think what you will notice more is that with a lower stack you will no longer have speakers at ear level. I predict it will be loud enough, but that will depend on many things including your personal preferences. If you are worried then keep the other 4x10 in the car ready for the second half. If it does turn out to be OK then you can follow the 2x10 option. There are more sensitive 2x10's than the Peaveys out there.[/quote]

My Warwick 2x10 WCA211PRO is 101. Never had any problems with it.

I had to screw some feet onto one side to stand it sideways because of the carry handles but that didn't involve any drilling.

Although I keep thinking I should get a complementary 211 but then I do a gig and realise I'm just gassing.

Edited January 10, 2011 by TimR

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1083952' date='Jan 10 2011, 09:50 AM']Are the handles on those peavey 2x10s side stacking friendly? I had one and totally don't remember.[/quote]

I don't think they are. I could always put some rubber feet on though.

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='Phil Starr' post='1083884' date='Jan 10 2011, 07:27 AM']If these figures are correct then in your position I would play a gig with just one 4x10, which won't cost you anything to try. You will be 7dB (ish) down overall. I think what you will notice more is that with a lower stack you will no longer have speakers at ear level. I predict it will be loud enough, but that will depend on many things including your personal preferences. If you are worried then keep the other 4x10 in the car ready for the second half. If it does turn out to be OK then you can follow the 2x10 option. There are more sensitive 2x10's than the Peaveys out there.[/quote]

I originally started out with one 4x10 which was more than adequate then added the second one to give me more headroom (never had the master above 2). Now, as I'm DI'd into the desk, I only need my backline to be heard primarily by me. The drummer and guitarist get a feed through their monitors. I'm thinking a 2x10 on a stand, bringing it to ear level will probably do the trick.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='bassman2790' post='1084654' date='Jan 10 2011, 07:10 PM']I originally started out with one 4x10 which was more than adequate then added the second one to give me more headroom (never had the master above 2). Now, as I'm DI'd into the desk, I only need my backline to be heard primarily by me. The drummer and guitarist get a feed through their monitors. I'm thinking a 2x10 on a stand, bringing it to ear level will probably do the trick.[/quote]
sounds like a plan.