paul, the Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='12010' date='Jun 4 2007, 07:21 PM']It's worth bearing in mind that one of the most sought-after vintage Fender basses exists entirely due to CBS' intervention.... the 66-ish Jazz with dots, binding and oval tuners. It's not at clear-cut as pre-and post CBS. Just sayin'.[/quote] ...are you arguing with me...because I agree with you. Maybe if CBS hadn't stepped in, Fender (descendants, loyal co-workers) would still be making superb instruments and '60s Fenders would be worth about £1000 today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2000 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Ain't rocket science. They're the price they are because that's the price people are prepared to pay. And IMHO they are a good buy, because they are sought after, and there is a limited supply resulting in a sellers market. I've been looking for an early 70's Precision for a while, and when I see one that ticks the boxes, that I'm happy is genuine, I'll pay the going rate. And I'll probably buy more. Prices ain't going to go down, so as well as a nice bass you've the bonus of a potential nice return on your investment when you coil up your leads for the last time. There's not many basses you can say that about Wall's might be another (I hope). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokl Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 When people tell me that they've spent a great wad of cash on an old Fender I have to restrain myself from saying, "what? you could have got a new one for that!!". Having said that I do love the look and feel of a well played-in, old Fender. Some of the 70`s stuff I've come across has been rubbish, but then again some of it was great too. I picked up a lovely '76 Precision, which I bought entirely because it played and sounded fantastic, it was also very cheap (I knew I should have held onto it for longer!). The neck was a sensation, and it looked wicked with all the chrome-y pickguard-y bits on. I agree with Crazy Kiwi about the value of these things, it's surely what it's worth to the individual that counts. Ironically I paid £900 for a Wal Custom a few years ago - and it was really stretching my budget. I had dithered about on a couple that I had been offered for £700, and then regretted not having taken the plunge. I felt like I was paying a bit over-the-odds, but didn't want to pass up on another one, and I had wanted a Wal since I first picked up a bass. Needless to say, I don't feel quite so bad about what I paid for it now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokl Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 oh yes, and the guy who purchased my '76 Precision openly admitted that he was going to shove it back in the case and treat it as an investment. I was gutted, having put a lot of love and care into getting it into great playing shape. That's why I much prefer to sell gear through this forum. What's the point of sticking it away? Why not get it out and enjoy playing it, you might get run-over by a bus before you get to sell the darn thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 [quote name='paul, the' post='12023' date='Jun 4 2007, 07:41 PM'] ...are you arguing with me...because I agree with you.[/quote] Not at all... just stating something which might suprise those who think the company went to the dogs the day after after CBS took over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2000 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 No point shoving 'em under the bed. Honest playing wear doesn't really matter all that much in the vintage Fender market. Keeping 'em original is the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul, the Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='12123' date='Jun 4 2007, 10:36 PM']Not at all... just stating something which might suprise those who think the company went to the dogs the day after after CBS took over.[/quote] The most powerful bass tone I've ever heard was a '70s Precision, whether I like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhuk Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 It may be just shy of a metric tonne, but can someone tell me specifically what is poor quality about a late 70's Precision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenny B Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Is it possible to date a bass to its build month? Somewhere on my GAS list is a Precision, and i thought it would be nice to find one that was the same age as me (august 75) - see which one of us ages better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 For me the pricing, in an ideal world, should actually reflect the value of a [i]players[/i] instrument - it's worth as a tool. Obviously that's not the case, and people will shell out for the 'mojo' of owning an older instrument, or for the sheer investment value. After all, they're not making anymore genuine seventies Fenders and the stock of existing ones can only decrease. But the logic seems to be, the older the instrument the better. And that logic is what I'm questioning, especially given the variability of seventies production. There also seems to be a common perception that the price (I'm deliberately avoiding the use of the word 'value' here) of 70's Fenders can only go up. In the short term I'm sure that's correct, but the crash in the classic car market does come to mind. Also can we be sure that, for instance, a five year difference between a '77 and an '82 will hold the same significance to the market in maybe 30 years time. To my mind basses are for playing, yet judging by the prices on ebay many people are happy to play 'pig in a poke' with seventies Fenders by buying based on the year and originality. Fine if you're an investor, maybe not so wise if you actually want to play the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 [quote name='mhuk' post='12158' date='Jun 4 2007, 11:07 PM']It may be just shy of a metric tonne, but can someone tell me specifically what is poor quality about a late 70's Precision?[/quote] Perhaps nothing at all, maybe a hell of a lot. It was the variablity of Fenders quality control up to '81 that led to some real dogs making it out of the factory gate. Also short cuts on the manufacturing process led to Fender messing about with contouring and routing as early as the late 60's (at least on some models). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2000 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 [quote name='mhuk' post='12158' date='Jun 4 2007, 11:07 PM']It may be just shy of a metric tonne, but can someone tell me specifically what is poor quality about a late 70's Precision?[/quote] Don Randall and Leo Fender had nothing to do with Fender by 69. QA seemed to slip. Natural finish (Ash) became popular in early 70's, Fender purchasing started buying Northern Ash and any old crap to meet the demand (hence the 12lb etc. precisions in late 70's). Up to '73 ish most instruments were assembled with quality components and timber, after that it was hit or miss for quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2000 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 -->QUOTE(Lenny B @ Jun 4 2007, 11:15 PM) [snapback]12171[/snapback] Is it possible to date a bass to its build month? Somewhere on my GAS list is a Precision, and i thought it would be nice to find one that was the same age as me (august 75) - see which one of us ages better![/quote] They have dated pots, pups, neck and if you're lucky body. There's often no markings on '75 necks due to the green vampire ink they used. So you can't really date one accurately unless you strip it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 -->QUOTE(Lenny B @ Jun 4 2007, 11:15 PM) [snapback]12171[/snapback] Is it possible to date a bass to its build month? Somewhere on my GAS list is a Precision, and i thought it would be nice to find one that was the same age as me (august 75) - see which one of us ages better![/quote] The answer is - possibly. A '75 may have a readable inspection date in the neck pocket. Otherwise you'd have to rely on the date the neck was made. See [url="http://www.provide.net/~cfh/fender.html"]here[/url] for details of the codes used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenny B Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 The answer is - possibly. A '75 may have a readable inspection date in the neck pocket. Otherwise you'd have to rely on the date the neck was made. See [url="http://www.provide.net/~cfh/fender.html"]here[/url] for details of the codes used. [/quote] Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhuk Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 [quote]Perhaps nothing at all, maybe a hell of a lot.[/quote] Yeah, but a lot of what? The body, neck, pickups? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 (edited) [quote name='mhuk' post='12222' date='Jun 5 2007, 12:06 AM']Yeah, but a lot of what? The body, neck, pickups?[/quote] I've never heard anything bad about 70's hardware (other than claims that older pickups sound better), but Fender were known to be rather lax with their tolerances machining the wood. Which meant warped AND twisted necks (I bought one on those - an S6xxxxx serial on a new bass in '81), oversized neck pockets (disastrous if mated to a 3 bolt jazz), heels wider than the neck, generally unlovely contouring - you name it Fender let them slip out of the factory. They also produced plenty of gorgeous, extremely playable instruments. You just can't tell until you get you hands on it. Edited June 4, 2007 by Musky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lapisi Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 -->QUOTE(Lenny B @ Jun 4 2007, 03:15 PM) [snapback]12171[/snapback] and i thought it would be nice to find one that was the same age as me[/quote] This is a sentiment I've seen a lot and I think is at least a small part of the pricing mystery. It's interesting to see such a split on the '70's perceived value. I hold the less than popular opinion that the pre CBS ones are often junk too I just don't think that in the last 50 years guitar building technology has gone backwards in the non skilled production line models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lapisi Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 [quote name='BB2000' post='12194' date='Jun 4 2007, 03:39 PM']Don Randall and Leo Fender had nothing to do with Fender by 69. QA seemed to slip. Natural finish (Ash) became popular in early 70's, Fender purchasing started buying Northern Ash and any old crap to meet the demand (hence the 12lb etc. precisions in late 70's). Up to '73 ish most instruments were assembled with quality components and timber, after that it was hit or miss for quite some time.[/quote] Actually, apparently, supposedly back in the day swamp ash was the junk would you could get for cheap compared to the good heavy quality stuff. What is hip seems to change with the decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Fingers Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 When i think over it, what might have been a "quality slip" on my P bass is the way to big neck pocket, nothing a couple of picks and other stuff can fix though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cooke Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 [quote name='obbm' post='11877' date='Jun 4 2007, 03:19 PM']I think there a few anomolies with your maths. Assuming that the class of '75 left school at the age of 16, or possible 18, they would now be closer to 50 than 30s - 40s. However by now they could well have a greater disposable income, as children may well have left home and consequently in a position to splash out. Also at that time there really was only Fender, Rick and Gibson of which Fender was the acknowledged brand leader. I also disagree about the class of '75 making these documentaries. Far more likely to be the class of '85. If I wanted to buy a Fender of my youth I'd need to remortgage the house. [/quote] I am "class of '75" , just turned 50 this year. Got my A levels in Summer of '75... Can I afford a Fender of that period? No... I can't even afford a new Fender right now... the Fender fund is growing slowly (approx £50 a month)... the problem comes when there's enough... which one to buy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 (edited) Its probably been said before, but Marcus Miller seems to be happy with his '77 jazz bass! I played an amazing '72 recently, beautiful instrument, sounded awesome with loadsa character, tight neck pocket etc. Needed a slight setup and the (original) nut was a bit buzzy, but just beautiful. If i had £2500 cash i woulda snapped it up. Probably priced over the odds for what people think a '72 is worth, but i loved it, and with vintage stuff u just can't shop about, if thats the one, thats what u pay!!! That same day i tried a '66 Jazz (albeit a refinished one), and it was sh*t IMHO, wouldn't have payed £500 for it, so i think its a lot to do with the player as well! Might try and pickup an '83, my birth year, and see how it ages lol. Si Edited June 7, 2007 by Sibob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 £2500? A LOT overpriced..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 Indeed, but i played another '72 priced at £1700, and it was gash. So what do you do!? And that '66 i played was priced at like £3650 or something....horrible bass! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 [quote name='Sibob' post='13474' date='Jun 7 2007, 10:07 AM']Indeed, but i played another '72 priced at £1700, and it was gash. So what do you do!?[/quote] I've just picked up a delightful '72 for £800. It needs a pickup rewind and new pots, but I can cope with that. Just bide your time and buy one that's a decent price. They're out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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