Give me Power, Clarity & Neutrality....

[okusman]

Gentleman:

Scenario: 4/5 string player in covers/function band, using Fender Jazz and Lakland basses.
Currently using Eden Metro Combo and 2x10XST.
Great amp & cab, but is there a lighter amp & speaker combination that will give me...

A completely flat tone, no scoops, bumps, colouration or accents.
At least 500 watts. Really 500 watts...and yes I know that both the speakers and the amp must be up to scratch.
Quality XLR DI
Don't need/want booming bottom end....
2x10s or 2 12s..don't mind
No need for significant eq functions.
0% need for any grind/grit...although a warming tube is not a problem!
Robust to be used on the road.

I really like my Eden gear. It's very very well made. It's a pro piece of kit, but I'm not convinced that after 3 years of service it's doing my style of "mids-heavy overplaying" any favours.

I think... SWR would give me much the same.
EBS is too gritty
Hartke is too brittle
TC is aimed at a rockier sound
Gallien & Genz equally
And I don't want MarkBass...because I'm called Mark!

£1750 is the max budget, and I'm happy to consider 2nd hand.

[Conan]

Why do the speakers have to be either tens or twelves?

Thunderfunk and Aguilar?

What exactly do you mean by "brittle" with respect to Hartke? I certainly don't find mine brittle (if I understand what you mean by that word).

Edited January 9, 2011 by Conan

[chris_b]

I'd have a look at the 2 AE210's that Bass Direct has for sale at the moment. They are a bargain at £1000, and in new condition. Don't worry about an amp, they have loads to choose from at BD!!

Recently I've been running my AE210's with a TC Staccato. I don't use a "rocky" sound and I wouldn't rule TC out if you want a clean, fat and full tone.

ps There was an Eden WT500 for sale here recently. It might still be about.

Edited January 9, 2011 by chris_b

[crez5150]

I ha this exact setup (sold it toa bc member) after that went to a GK MB500 head with Aguilar DB112 cabs....

[Mr. Foxen]

Barefeced Big One or the 12" version, a PA tpye power amp and a really simple clean preamp, possibly one not intended just for bass.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1083389' date='Jan 9 2011, 06:18 PM']Barefeced Big One or the 12" version, a PA tpye power amp and a really simple clean preamp, possibly one not intended just for bass.[/quote]

I doubt there's anything else out there that could compete with these Barefaced cabs due to the 3-way design and I remember Alex put a lot into the crossover, which often lets commercial bass cabs down. However...have you ever actually heard properly flat and clean at gig volume?

Amp-wise the PA suggestion is great for clean, but to get one that's genuinely good at bass is either heavy or very expensive, especially if you factor in the need for a separate pre. If you want light then unfortunately something like the Markbass F1 would be a good call as it has a clean, quick pre. Dunno what the alternatives are like in the lightweight head market, though the Tecamp Puma might be an option. There is a Tecamp 112 for sale in on here, I had one of these for a time but it was a bit too clean for my tastes! Like the Barefaced it has a dedicated mid driver and for a lightweight, all-in-one solution it might be just the ticket.

EDIT: Just remembered the Tecamp combo only uses the 350w head rather than the 500w version...however I'd say that's not really important with respect to volume.

Edited January 9, 2011 by LawrenceH

[JTUK]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1083421' date='Jan 9 2011, 06:47 PM']I doubt there's anything else out there that could compete with these Barefaced cabs due to the 3-way design and I remember Alex put a lot into the crossover, which often lets commercial bass cabs down.[/quote]


Are you joking or on commision...???

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1083487' date='Jan 9 2011, 07:36 PM']Are you joking or on commision...??? [/quote]

Have you ever actually measured the response of a bass cab? How many bass cabs sound anything but terrible when used for full-range PA? That's a mark of a flat-response, 'neutral' sounding cab to me, and it's not easy to achieve at all while maintaining decent low-end. A 3-way-type design is arguably essential.*

Whether it's really what a bassist wants at a gig is another matter entirely - I certainly don't, I like a bit of growl in the mids!

*Edit: Checking back, unlike the similar DIY Fearful cabs the BF cab doesn't actually bother with a tweeter, but the point still stands I think - you need a separate mid-range driver rather than woofer-tweeter set-up.

Edited January 13, 2011 by LawrenceH

[Gwilym]

I know you said no to Mark Bass but I think the F1/F500 might be perfect for you.

[JTUK]

You expect me to believe a cab designed like this is the benchmark of all things bass cabs.

[okusman]

Aluminium Hartke Cabs to my ears have a very bright sound. Too bright? Also think they have a 80s mid scoop built into their sound.

Not 15s because I think that modern 12s are capable of shifting the air and creating the depth that a traditional 15 did...oh and they're gonna be bigger..

[Merton]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1083732' date='Jan 9 2011, 10:49 PM']You expect me to believe a cab designed like this is the benchmark of all things bass cabs.[/quote]
That's not what he said, he essentially said it was arguably the only nearly true flat bass cab on the market. He also stated that it wasn't what he'd look for in a cab!

[51m0n]

Barefaced Super12, Bergantino AE212; take your pick.

Hartke LH1000 bridged or LH500 if you like.

I wouldnt rule out Markbass if I were you though, they are proper loud and sound exceptional to my ears....

[simon1964]

[quote name='51m0n' post='1084000' date='Jan 10 2011, 10:41 AM']I wouldnt rule out Markbass if I were you though, they are proper loud and sound exceptional to my ears....[/quote]

+1 to that.

[Ghost_Bass]

Genz Benz STL-9.0 or 6.0 (because you said you don't need much bottom) into a Bergantino 2*12"!

Can't go any clearer than that, believe me!

[BassBod]

Euphonic Audio - the eq really isn't complicated! Look out for a used iamp 800. I used the 500 for a few years with great results, and never felt it lacked anything - just lets your bass sound like it does.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='BassBod' post='1084046' date='Jan 10 2011, 11:25 AM']Euphonic Audio - the eq really isn't complicated! Look out for a used iamp 800. I used the 500 for a few years with great results, and never felt it lacked anything - just lets your bass sound like it does.[/quote]
Yip... it sounds to me like you should be looking at something favoured by the URBers / doublers - EA, Acoustic Image, Walter Woods *cough*...

[Musicman20]

Be wary of buying without trying or at least hearing and seeing them cab in the flesh.

Plenty of cabs and amps seem they would be perfect, but then you find out that for YOU, they are not what you are after. Also, Im a picky so and so when it comes to build quality, so if I were you, at that budget, Id want very high build quality and something that at least looks like it can handle gigging.

Its also not always the most expensive option that is the best, which I have discovered with the TC cabinets which replaced a Berg cab. But, then again, thats MY ears thats making the decision.

Nice budget to play with IMO.

I wouldnt know what to recommend as my Aguilar DB212 cab has a slight mid bump which is great for being in the mix (although its not extreme, its just smooth and punchy).

Amp wise? Definitely try the Markbass F1/500 is you want SUPER clean tight tone. Or, you could try the GB Shuttle 9.0/Shuttlemax 9.0 when it lands.

You could try the Markbass F1/F500 with the Markbass NY122. Ive tested that rig and its super duper clean.

You might find in the end you prefer the slight colouring from some amps and cabs, but again its something Id have a good think about and a good test.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Musicman20

[franzbassist]

[quote name='BassBod' post='1084046' date='Jan 10 2011, 11:25 AM']Euphonic Audio - the eq really isn't complicated! Look out for a used iamp 800. I used the 500 for a few years with great results, and never felt it lacked anything - just lets your bass sound like it does.[/quote]

What he said

[tom5string]

For the super clean and powerful tone:

Tecamp Puma 1000

combine this with a Tecamp S212 cab and you're done ..... I'm also quite happy with my GenzBenz NeoX212, a bit heavier than the Tecamp cab but still in the manageable range.

Edited January 10, 2011 by tom5string

[umph]

[quote name='okusman' post='1083278' date='Jan 9 2011, 04:44 PM']Gentleman:

Scenario: 4/5 string player in covers/function band, using Fender Jazz and Lakland basses.
Currently using Eden Metro Combo and 2x10XST.
Great amp & cab, but is there a lighter amp & speaker combination that will give me...

A completely flat tone, no scoops, bumps, colouration or accents.
At least 500 watts. Really 500 watts...and yes I know that both the speakers and the amp must be up to scratch.
Quality XLR DI
Don't need/want booming bottom end....
2x10s or 2 12s..don't mind
No need for significant eq functions.
0% need for any grind/grit...although a warming tube is not a problem!
Robust to be used on the road.

I really like my Eden gear. It's very very well made. It's a pro piece of kit, but I'm not convinced that after 3 years of service it's doing my style of "mids-heavy overplaying" any favours.

I think... SWR would give me much the same.
EBS is too gritty
Hartke is too brittle
TC is aimed at a rockier sound
Gallien & Genz equally
And I don't want MarkBass...because I'm called Mark!

£1750 is the max budget, and I'm happy to consider 2nd hand.[/quote]


sure you want completely flat? If you do i'd recomend active preamp > power amp > barefaced big one

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Merton' post='1083799' date='Jan 10 2011, 12:15 AM']That's not what he said, he essentially said it was arguably the only nearly true flat bass cab on the market. He also stated that it wasn't what he'd look for in a cab![/quote]

Thank you! Glad someone saw what I was getting at
I actually favour the sound of the Markbass cabs (ducks and hides) or older SWR

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='51m0n' post='1084000' date='Jan 10 2011, 10:41 AM']Barefaced Super12, Bergantino AE212; take your pick.

Hartke LH1000 bridged or LH500 if you like.[/quote]

Fairly sure those aren't flat, the use a classic passive valve eq, which is fairly far from flat, as pleasing as that voicing is.

[JTUK]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1084200' date='Jan 10 2011, 01:50 PM']Thank you! Glad someone saw what I was getting at
I actually favour the sound of the Markbass cabs (ducks and hides) or older SWR[/quote]


'Nearly true'... what the **** is that supposed to mean when you pile a doom gig into it.

If they do what you want them to do and you think they are a good deal, then fine.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1084227' date='Jan 10 2011, 02:12 PM']Fairly sure those aren't flat, the use a classic passive valve eq, which is fairly far from flat, as pleasing as that voicing is.[/quote]


Now I know what you mean, in that all knobs pointing at noon != flat, however its a very very clean tube preamp IME, and if you set the knobs right you can get pretty close to flat. Certainly flat enough....