Learning to read

[Jam]

I decided as a resolution I would learn to read standard notation this year, and have finally found time tonight to sit down and get stuck in. I've spent 3 hours going through Josquin Des Pres's "Simplified Sight Reading for Bass".

My brain is utterly fried, I'm not too bad with the rhythm side of things for the moment, and I'm working on actually reading the dots (as the first half of the book is about 100 different rhythms all played on the same note :/ ).

Question is, is there a better book I can use? This one is doing my head in, the exercises are so boring. It's not that it's not a challenge, perhaps I'm just tired.

[Pentode]

My teacher's got me learning notation for acoustic guitar first. Once I've got the hang of that the idea is that I shift over to the bass clef.

There are masses of books for learning notation for acoustic and you get to play proper melodies very quickly which is rather nice.

Seems to be working for me.

BTW, I've used the very book you've got and I know what you mean about the numerous rhythm exercises.

All the best.

[Doddy]

That's a good book.
While it's nice to read a melody,at this stage I think it's more important to actually become competent with recognising the notes.
It might be me,but if you are not comfortable yet,I don't know how it can be boring.You've still got plenty to do from that book.
If you want a change,find some simple transcriptions where you can apply what you learn

[TimR]

[quote name='Jam' post='1083624' date='Jan 9 2011, 09:22 PM']....

Question is, is there a better book I can use? This one is doing my head in, the exercises are so boring. It's not that it's not a challenge, perhaps I'm just tired.[/quote]

Unfortunately it's all about repetition and it is boring. You're training your brain to recognise when it sees an E to play an E.

Good work stick with it.

[paul_5]

If you want to concentrate on note pitches (which dot/line) and don't necessarily want to focus on the rhythms or note lengths, then why not try "JS Bach for Bass" from the same guy?.

These are (not surprisingly) Bach cello / organ pieces arranged for bass. The reason I suggest this is that the pitch changes happen very slowly (pitches only really change at the start of every bar), and the majority of the book is based on arpeggios - always useful.

To sum up you're learning pitch recognition at a gentle pace, chord and arpeggio shapes (and also training your ear to recognise major/minor types and inversions), and thridly you'll have a couple of party pieces in the bag.
Also, if Bach stuff was good enough for Cliff Burton to study, then I'm prepared to give it a go.

*Edit* The book comes with a CD that is fairly shocking - you have been warned*

Edited January 9, 2011 by paul_5

[stingrayPete1977]

I am going to get this book as it sounds better than the one I have (the MI one) I'm always so busy playing to learn how to read , the irony! I keep having a look and doing a bit I wonder how the rest of the bass clef YTS are doing it's gone very quiet? Have you played the bass clef game Jam? (by the way I'm doing this on my iPod with 2 cavaliers on my lap! Jam knows what I'm on about )

[Jam]

[quote name='paul_5' post='1083658' date='Jan 9 2011, 09:55 PM']If you want to concentrate on note pitches (which dot/line) and don't necessarily want to focus on the rhythms or note lengths, then why not try "JS Bach for Bass" from the same guy?.
*Edit* The book comes with a CD that is fairly shocking - you have been warned*[/quote]

I have that book too, I bought them both together but I thought it would be a better idea to work through the other book first! What's wrong with the cd?

[quote name='Doddy' post='1083647' date='Jan 9 2011, 09:46 PM']That's a good book.
While it's nice to read a melody,at this stage I think it's more important to actually become competent with recognising the notes.
It might be me,but if you are not comfortable yet,I don't know how it can be boring.You've still got plenty to do from that book.
If you want a change,find some simple transcriptions where you can apply what you learn[/quote]

I think you're probably right, I just need to keep at it. 3 hours of pretty constant working-through has burnt me out. I feel a little more confident with some notes on the stave, just gotta stick at it I suppose.



[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1083662' date='Jan 9 2011, 10:00 PM']I am going to get this book as it sounds better than the one I have (the MI one) I'm always so busy playing to learn how to read , the irony! I keep having a look and doing a bit I wonder how the rest of the bass clef YTS are doing it's gone very quiet? Have you played the bass clef game Jam? (by the way I'm doing this on my iPod with 2 cavaliers on my lap! Jam knows what I'm on about )[/quote]

I would, despite my original post, recommend it. The exercises aren't exactly exciting but I can see progress, albeit slowly

Lucky you with your cavaliers, I remember you saying you'd taken one in. I hope they're well, I'm jealous!

[chaypup]

The Bass Bible! Lots of interesting techniques and covers everything from really simple stuff to complex lines. The only downside is that it also has tab alongside which I find distracting.

[Sean]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=74284"]Here[/url] on Basschat there is The Major's Boot Camp - a great resource for anyone learning to read. Tons of it.

[frank]

Hello Jam i have that book as well, and this time last year i decided to do the same as you
i think the thing is not to go at it for 3 hours at a time or it is really boring also you remember what to play instead of reading it

I did 20 mins once or twice a day 4 or 5 days a week
Did that for the first 6 or 7 months of the year and finished all the rhythm exercises up to 120bpm or 100-110 for the triplet stuff.
have recently started back into it and im onto chapter 3 exercises on the E and A string
even though i havent done the rhythm exercises in a while i can still get through them at a slower speed.

So my mission for this year is too finish the book and hopefully move on to proper pieces
or if anyone reading this can point me in the direction of the next book i should go for

hope this helps

Frank

[endorka]

Frank gives good advice - I remember reading somewhere that your ability to remember things you are trying to learn starts to fade after 20 minutes of practice, so it is advisable when doing practice that involves any kind of memorizing to only work in 20 minute sessions. Even taking a ten minute break between sessions will help.

Everyone is different, but three hours a day for this type of practice is almost certainly too much. Sure it can be done, but the law of diminishing returns quickly sets in as your ability to retain what you have learned vanishes.

Jennifer

[Jam]

[quote name='endorka' post='1083855' date='Jan 10 2011, 02:29 AM']Frank gives good advice - I remember reading somewhere that your ability to remember things you are trying to learn starts to fade after 20 minutes of practice, so it is advisable when doing practice that involves any kind of memorizing to only work in 20 minute sessions. Even taking a ten minute break between sessions will help.

Everyone is different, but three hours a day for this type of practice is almost certainly too much. Sure it can be done, but the law of diminishing returns quickly sets in as your ability to retain what you have learned vanishes.

Jennifer[/quote]

Yes, I think you're right. I just got so engrossed in it, and as I felt I was making some progress I just carried on. I imagine small bursts daily will help more than one huge cram once a week anyway, I need to get a schedule set up!

[Fat Rich]

I really like "The Complete Electric Bassist Volume One" by William Perry and Leon White. It starts off pretty simple teaching you the notes and gradually introducing more complex rhythms, nothing ground breaking but it seems to work for me. It's out of print now (and never made it to volume two) but I had no problem picking one up on Amazon. It's got some really funky 70s photos and a few odd bits of advice that seem a bit out of date but it's recommended by several people on Basschat.

In conjunction with the J des Pres book you'll probably have all the resources you need.

[xgsjx]

I learned to read from an old book called something like "Teach Yourself Piano" & also topped up info from the inserts in blank manuscripts (I used to score write all the time, but just for myself).
20 odd years ago a blank manuscript was about £1.95, looking thru the Google shopping, I can't find the one I used to buy (it was a creamy beige colour). Any local music shop should have them.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Jam' post='1083624' date='Jan 9 2011, 09:22 PM']I decided as a resolution I would learn to read standard notation this year, and have finally found time tonight to sit down and get stuck in. I've spent 3 hours going through Josquin Des Pres's "Simplified Sight Reading for Bass".

My brain is utterly fried, I'm not too bad with the rhythm side of things for the moment, and I'm working on actually reading the dots (as the first half of the book is about 100 different rhythms all played on the same note :/ ).

Question is, is there a better book I can use? This one is doing my head in, the exercises are so boring. It's not that it's not a challenge, perhaps I'm just tired.[/quote]
I'm doing the same thing, with the same book. My opinion is quite contrary to your own. Stick with it, it is the sort of thing that requires much repetition and there are few shortcuts. It's only boring if you can't see your progress.

[Jam]

[quote name='silddx' post='1084005' date='Jan 10 2011, 10:44 AM']I'm doing the same thing, with the same book. My opinion is quite contrary to your own. Stick with it, it is the sort of thing that requires much repetition and there are few shortcuts. It's only boring if you can't see your progress.[/quote]

Yeah, I think I just need to keep at it, I can see progress which is a start.. Baby steps!

[JMT3781]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1083647' date='Jan 9 2011, 09:46 PM']That's a good book.
While it's nice to read a melody,at this stage I think it's more important to actually become competent with recognising the notes.
It might be me,but if you are not comfortable yet,I don't know how it can be boring.You've still got plenty to do from that book.
If you want a change,find some simple transcriptions where you can apply what you learn[/quote]

i agree, i have that book, if if you think the rhythms on one note are intensely boring, just wait till some of the melodies you have to play.. they make no sense lol!!

just stick with it, and avoid the temptation of playing the lines by memory or by ear

[thunderbird13]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1083984' date='Jan 10 2011, 10:25 AM']I learned to read from an old book called something like "Teach Yourself Piano" & also topped up info from the inserts in blank manuscripts (I used to score write all the time, but just for myself).
20 odd years ago a blank manuscript was about £1.95, looking thru the Google shopping, I can't find the one I used to buy (it was a creamy beige colour). Any local music shop should have them.[/quote]


Or you could print your own for free

[url="http://www.blanksheetmusic.net/"]manuscript[/url]

[timtoomany]

I'm going through the same thing at the moment so I can sympathise. I used Chuck Rainey's Complete Electric Bass Player (book 1: method) but it sounds similar to the Josquin des Pres with all the one-note rhythm for pages and pages.

The hardest thing is that pretty much everything comes with TAB attached which is impossible to ignore. I've taken to covering it up.

The thing I've had most luck with recently is sticking in one position, using the one-fret-per-note approach, learning all the notes under the fingers and learning to associate them with the dots on the stave. Lot's of Rainey's exercises stick in one key and make this possible; maybe des Pres is the same. If not, check out Major's boot camp post which has loads of good positional work. I've also found that saying the note out loud as I play it is a good way of reinforcing the learning, although it makes me feel like an idiot.

Worth sticking at, no doubt.

Good luck, Tim

[Jam]

[quote name='timtoomany' post='1084031' date='Jan 10 2011, 11:12 AM']I've also found that saying the note out loud as I play it is a good way of reinforcing the learning, although it makes me feel like an idiot.[/quote]
Cheers Tim, I've taken to trying to sing the note as I play it too, so don't feel too silly!

[dlloyd]

[quote name='timtoomany' post='1084031' date='Jan 10 2011, 11:12 AM']I'm going through the same thing at the moment so I can sympathise. I used Chuck Rainey's Complete Electric Bass Player (book 1: method) but it sounds similar to the Josquin des Pres with all the one-note rhythm for pages and pages.[/quote]

I had the Chuck Rainey book... it's not bad, but I think the way the same tunes are repeatedly transcribed to different keys isn't overly helpful as it allows you to guess the next note rather than forcing you to read it.

What I think would be a good idea for someone first learning how to read, is to buy some music books of bands that have fairly simple basslines, nothing too funky or clever (think U2 or Oasis), cover the Tab with masking tape (if it has bass tab) and take it from there. Far more interesting than some of the crappy exercises you get in study books.

[thumperbob 2002]

I have been playing bass for over 30 years now and learnt everything by ear. Three years ago I started taking lessons purely for reading- once a week for 30 mins for the lesson and about 20 mins per day to practice. Working through mainly swing type fairly simple songs. Within 6 months I was told I could easily back an artist in a resident band as most simply read the chord charts. I think its just a matter of a little a day- a bit like learning to read a book. It will become easier.

I do feel though that this is a skill that has to be used contantly to keep up the standard. Very useful to learn something quickly and another string to your bow I suppose. I would consider taking lessons- any music teacher should be able to help and you dont really need to go to a bass teacher ( but I would recommend it )

Or just strive to go through every song in In the Shadows of Motown!! You`ll be there at the end!!

Bob

[Jam]

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' post='1084107' date='Jan 10 2011, 12:25 PM']Or just strive to go through every song in In the Shadows of Motown!! You`ll be there at the end!!

Bob[/quote]

That's my ultimate goal in all of this! I WILL be able to read the pieces in that book!

[Bilbo]

A little and often, I say. Just get anything in bass clef and bang through it. Its familiarity with the written form that allows you to improve. Print off anything that is transcribed here (its all free) and go for it, one after the other - don't go back and rectify your mistakes as you go, just keep reading, reading, reading and not learning the pieces. At this point, accuracy is not as important as keeping going!!! It will come but it takes time and practice - no short cuts here.

[fatback]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1084176' date='Jan 10 2011, 01:25 PM']A little and often, I say. Just get anything in bass clef and bang through it. Its familiarity with the written form that allows you to improve. Print off anything that is transcribed here (its all free) and go for it, one after the other - don't go back and rectify your mistakes as you go, just keep reading, reading, reading and not learning the pieces. At this point, accuracy is not as important as keeping going!!! It will come but it takes time and practice - no short cuts here.[/quote]

Interesting point about not going back. I'm inclined to keep going back until I can get everything right, but it's hugely time consuming. Probably memory comes into play too much as well.