Dazzlovski Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I'm gonna ask what may seem like a really dumb question to some of you. As far back as I can remember (at least as far back to when I didn't really care), I've always used active basses,..Warwicks, Rays, Sadowsky, etc, but I have a hankering for a particular passive bass at the moment. Relatively new, but still passive. Thing is, I suspect the output of the bass could be lower, but should I consider using a outboard pre-amp to boost the signal, or do many of you use passive basses without any enhancement ? Will a pre-amp alter the tone of the bass , and if so is it therefore defeating the object ? Is it a simple case of adjusting the gain on the main amp to suit the lower signal ? If active electronics are "commonplace" in many boutique basses, what are the advantages (if any) of passive electronics. .. yeh, yeh.... dumb ass. I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAlonBass Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 A lot of amps have a Passive/Active switch, to compensate for the difference in output from different Basses. I use a Peavey that has an in/out type, (same input) and an old Trace-Elliot that has Input 1 for Passive and Input 2 for Active. Just look at the Specs of whichever amp you're using, (or thinking of using) and it should tell you the options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzlovski Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='BigAlonBass' post='1084894' date='Jan 10 2011, 09:39 PM']A lot of amps have a Passive/Active switch, to compensate for the difference in output from different Basses. I use a Peavey that has an in/out type, (same input) and an old Trace-Elliot that has Input 1 for Passive and Input 2 for Active. Just look at the Specs of whichever amp you're using, (or thinking of using) and it should tell you the options. [/quote] Cheers for that.. It was less the issue of balancing the gain when using both active and passive basses, but more the issue of any advantages of passive bass over an active basses . I presume none then ? Simply the active ones have increased signal output over passive. I guess different passive basses will have slightly different outputs to each other,and their tonal variation will naturally differ from manufacturer to manufacturer. Ta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzlovski Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='bubinga5' post='1084902' date='Jan 10 2011, 09:53 PM']Its not a dumb question at all... Most passive basses will have a lower out out depending on the wind of the pickups... Different preamps will do different things to the tone... depending on what you like...an Audere i have heard is very transparent... i take from your Q, you want a passive bass with a bit more oomph.... i have the perfect solution... i had a Custom Shop jazz... i added a Redeemer circuit.. it was just amazing... it did not colour the tone whatsoever, but everything was boosted in the best way... it was just like my jazz bass but the lows were boosted, the mids were boosted, and the highs were boosted... it also added an amazing clarity to the bass...im not talking harshness, im talking sparkle all across the tone range... turned my jazz into something very amazing... it was that good!...in fact i still have it handy when i took it out of the Fender... look them up on bass direct... [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Creation_Audio_Labs_Redeemer.html"]http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_sp...s_Redeemer.html[/url][/quote] Bubinga5, yeh... that's the stuff. I'll check it out... The thing I have my eye on is a Celinder, so I'm not expecting it to be completely lifeless. I suppose I'm still confused why a bass (such as your Custom Shop Jazz) benefited so much tonally by adding the redeemer which is not technically a pre-amp. Why don't they just fit things like this at the factory ? Is it cost ? Or is there something about the passive un-boosted signal that appeals to the purists out there ? That's exactly what I'm looking for, a passive with oomph... (or is that technically an active bass ?) Am I also right in thinking that only active circuitry allows you to boost certain frequencies on the EQ , but passive only allows you to cut the treble/HF ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 A pre-amp is a pre-amp, if you specifically want a passive bass, then you put an outboard pre-amp in the signal path, it defeats the point. Though why anyone would want a bass specifically because it's passive, I don't know (and I know you're not saying that's what's attracting you to the bass). People like passive purely because of the tone. Anything you put in a signal path will affect the tone in some way. There are (I believe) very transparent pre-amps, but unless the EQ on your amp can't quite give it the fine tuning you want, there's not a lot of point. Also some people don't trust having to use batteries in their basses and prefer not to have another thing that can potentially go wrong at a gig. Both my basses have push/pull active/passive and it just depends on what they sound like when I'm in the room. There's no real volume difference between the active and passive modes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingerz Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 [quote name='Dazzlovski' post='1084941' date='Jan 10 2011, 10:21 PM']Bubinga5, yeh... that's the stuff. I'll check it out... The thing I have my eye on is a Celinder, so I'm not expecting it to be completely lifeless. I suppose I'm still confused why a bass (such as your Custom Shop Jazz) benefited so much tonally by adding the redeemer which is not technically a pre-amp. Why don't they just fit things like this at the factory ? Is it cost ? Or is there something about the passive un-boosted signal that appeals to the purists out there ? That's exactly what I'm looking for, a passive with oomph... (or is that technically an active bass ?) Am I also right in thinking that only active circuitry allows you to boost certain frequencies on the EQ , but passive only allows you to cut the treble/HF ?[/quote] Firstly with levels - Active basses GENERALLY have a higher output. It's a simple case of setting the input gain to the right level for whatever you're plugging in. Re Active circuitry: Lots of circuits allow you to adjust the frequencies you boost or cut via a 'sweep' knob on the body or trim pots within the cavity. You then bring the circuit (pre amp) in when you boost those frequencies. With Passive; the 'Tone' knob set to it's full position is the open sound of the Pickups. As you wind that back you're basically knocking down the pickup tone depending on what capacitor is governing the tone pot. I really love passive sound. Active is the pickups, going through a pre amp in the bass then out into the amp. There are only a few really useful pre amps out there in my opinion. Both really do have their pros and cons. It's purely personal. Which Celinder are you looking at btw? I've heard great things about his passive 'classic' basses.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Dazzlovski' post='1084941' date='Jan 10 2011, 10:21 PM']Bubinga5, yeh... that's the stuff. I'll check it out... The thing I have my eye on is a Celinder, so I'm not expecting it to be completely lifeless. I suppose I'm still confused why a bass (such as your Custom Shop Jazz) benefited so much tonally by adding the redeemer which is not technically a pre-amp. Why don't they just fit things like this at the factory ? Is it cost ? Or is there something about the passive un-boosted signal that appeals to the purists out there ? That's exactly what I'm looking for, a passive with oomph... (or is that technically an active bass ?) Am I also right in thinking that only active circuitry allows you to boost certain frequencies on the EQ , but passive only allows you to cut the treble/HF ?[/quote]You said it..some people love a totally passive bass... some like as little electronics, in there chain of signal as possible.. as in passive bass straight into an amp.. its all in there ears.. I put that circuit into my jazz because it gave it so much more of everything..some may of hated it... i doubt it because it didnt colour the tone at all..it just amplified what was already there...its hard to explain but it sounded alot better IMHO.. deep lows, crystal mids with sparkly highs... when i put it in it made so much of a difference... it was like a super jazz without your usual preamp... totally transparent.. although its a subtle one,... it is a pre amp, because it 'amplifies the signal from your bass' before it gets to the amp...IE..'preamp'... Yes an active circuit boosts because it has battery power to do so...Passive doesnt have that capacity, as it has no power to do so... it can only give you what is already there... or...cut it.. I guess Fender dont put one in because a Fender sells without it, although Fender do put a preamp in some of there basses.. and that sells too.. A Celinder!! well that will be anything but lifeless im sure.. if your interested in a Celinder you may want to do some research before you shell out the mega £ that these go for... especially if you dont know if you want passive or active... IMHO mate,.. and its only mine.. go for a cheaper bass like an MIJ Jazz and put in one of the Redeemer's... maybe some better pups?.. after spending thousands on basses i really have come to the conclusion that more money doesnt alway = a better bass.. ive played MIJ jazz basses that i preferd to a Sadowsky J.. what was the difference...about a grand... This vid, is what my jazz pretty much sounded like, but it was alot clearer and punchier... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d9eydCfTdw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d9eydCfTdw[/url] Edited January 11, 2011 by bubinga5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 <<QUOTE>>> Active is the pickups, going through a pre amp in the bass then out into the amp. Sorry to be a nerd Fingerz, but this is not true.... An active bass (unless you have an EMG style active pickup) gets its boosted signal from the preamp.. The pickups are just a microphone for the preamp to process.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzlovski Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 [quote name='fingerz' post='1084988' date='Jan 10 2011, 10:57 PM']Firstly with levels - Active basses GENERALLY have a higher output. It's a simple case of setting the input gain to the right level for whatever you're plugging in. Re Active circuitry: Lots of circuits allow you to adjust the frequencies you boost or cut via a 'sweep' knob on the body or trim pots within the cavity. You then bring the circuit (pre amp) in when you boost those frequencies. With Passive; the 'Tone' knob set to it's full position is the open sound of the Pickups. As you wind that back you're basically knocking down the pickup tone depending on what capacitor is governing the tone pot. I really love passive sound. Active is the pickups, going through a pre amp in the bass then out into the amp. There are only a few really useful pre amps out there in my opinion. Both really do have their pros and cons. It's purely personal. Which Celinder are you looking at btw? I've heard great things about his passive 'classic' basses..[/quote] Hi Fingerz I have a great active bass (the NYC Sadowsky with VTC has all the boost that I need) , and my attraction to the Celinder was purely [i]physical[/i] rather than me needing a passive alternative. I know that there are combinations of passive PUPs/Active Circuitry and visa-versa in many basses, but never having had a passive bass (of any quality), a good deal of research seemed like a bright idea, considering the depth of experience on here too. I've looked at J-Update 4's in the past and considered that using one side-by-side with the Sadowsky may offer me little contrast, so I was looking for a classic looking bass, modern twist, great rep. Passive Precision-4 is what I'm looking at at the minute, with their own PUPs on board.. Frustratingly very little info on Celinders out there that I can find too... May come to nothing , but GAS is a terrible thing ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) Often with cheaper basses it's the poor active electronics that let them down. I'm inclined to choose passive, adding an outboard preamp to taste. Advantage is that I use the same preamp with different basses, or change the preamp if I like. Then again, I need very little variation in sound within a set, and I hate knob twiddling at a gig, so onboard eq would only annoy me. Edited January 11, 2011 by fatback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Personally, not a big fan of active basses. Lots of manufacturers build poor quality active instruments. Previously (70s and 80s) Aria engineered quality circuits, but the best I've played, and what I use for upgrade purposes, are Alembic AXY and MXY pickups and A/E-1 and A/E-Q2 circuits. When playing live in the 80s and 90s, mostly used two G&L basses (passive El Toro and active L2000E) and two Yamaha basses (passive BB2000 and active BB5000A) through an SWR Redhead and Triad setup, I'd set the amp flat, and use two chains with Boss parametric equaliser and Boss limiter pedals to shape the sound, one dedicated for the passive signal and the other for active. Always found there to be very little difference in the signals, and with either setup got best results when using the combined passive/active input on the SWR. These days, mostly play passive instruments, particularly Yamaha BB series (1200, 2000 and 5000) through an SWR Baby Blue, and can't say I've ever encountered any issues with the strength or quality of those basses outputs. (And the money you save not having to buy 9 volt batteries!) All that waffle aside, Rick Turner wrote a series of articles for Bass Player (early/mid 90s, I think) where he talked about the design and layout of active pickups and circuits, and examined many of the myths and misconceptions about what is, or isn't, active. Maybe someone has a link to those, or can find some links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_bass Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I have an active and a passive bass. I never play the active bass - this is partly because I hate having to worry about the batteries and partly because I love the sound of my jazz bass so much more. Either way, I don't see the need of a separate pre-amp on a passive bass, unless you don't like the way it sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingerz Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='bubinga5' post='1085093' date='Jan 11 2011, 02:01 AM']<<QUOTE>>> Active is the pickups, going through a pre amp in the bass then out into the amp. Sorry to be a nerd Fingerz, but this is not true.... An active bass (unless you have an EMG style active pickup) gets its boosted signal from the preamp.. The pickups are just a microphone for the preamp to process..[/quote] That's what I said! The pre is the 'Active bit' (like you say) - Just wrote the signal chain which has obviously been misinterpreted - my bad writing skills! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingerz Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Dazzlovski' post='1085321' date='Jan 11 2011, 11:51 AM']Hi Fingerz I have a great active bass (the NYC Sadowsky with VTC has all the boost that I need) , and my attraction to the Celinder was purely [i]physical[/i] rather than me needing a passive alternative. I know that there are combinations of passive PUPs/Active Circuitry and visa-versa in many basses, but never having had a passive bass (of any quality), a good deal of research seemed like a bright idea, considering the depth of experience on here too. I've looked at J-Update 4's in the past and considered that using one side-by-side with the Sadowsky may offer me little contrast, so I was looking for a classic looking bass, modern twist, great rep. Passive Precision-4 is what I'm looking at at the minute, with their own PUPs on board.. Frustratingly very little info on Celinders out there that I can find too... May come to nothing , but GAS is a terrible thing ! [/quote] Ah. Well, the passive Celinders are supposed to be fantastic - but it's all subjective. I know someone who had a Classic P and still thinks it's the best bass he owned. They have the modern twist looks wise but are very vintage sound wise. He uses older woods for those basses. I don't think you can beat the old Fenders for that sound but the Celinders are a modern instrument so it's amazing what he achieves tonally with them as they are comparable to vintage stuff IMO. If I hear of any I'll let you know. But if not there are lots of P basses around and with the sort of money I imagine a Celinder going for you could have your pick of the bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algmusic Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1084982' date='Jan 10 2011, 10:52 PM']A pre-amp is a pre-amp, if you specifically want a passive bass, then you put an outboard pre-amp in the signal path, it defeats the point. Though why anyone would want a bass specifically because it's passive, I don't know (and I know you're not saying that's what's attracting you to the bass). People like passive purely because of the tone. Anything you put in a signal path will affect the tone in some way. There are (I believe) very transparent pre-amps, but unless the EQ on your amp can't quite give it the fine tuning you want, there's not a lot of point. Also some people don't trust having to use batteries in their basses and prefer not to have another thing that can potentially go wrong at a gig. Both my basses have push/pull active/passive and it just depends on what they sound like when I'm in the room. There's no real volume difference between the active and passive modes.[/quote] I generally agree, I'm a passive guy, unless it's a MM and a few others. I do take my sanamp, if I'm not using my own amp. Now I'm happy with my amp, I don't use the sansamp unless I need a few different sound during the gig. I guess if you haven't got your perfect amp/cab or bass an outbord preamp helps. For me if I have my Jazz and my Terror bass and cab, i'm happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.