Ebay links forum

[JimBobTTD]

Buzz - the net effect is the same, though. It is still members informing other members about their auctions. If it is ok for someone with above 50 posts, then the problem is not with posting links to Ebay auctions but that new people are doing it. It is the that part which does not make sense to me. If "The original intention behind the creation of this forum was that it was a place to discuss Ebay auctions, not to offer free advertising to Ebayers. " then why allow [i]any [/i]links to members' own auctions?

[skankdelvar]

Don't do it

Is the volume of one-off's really worth worrying about? In fact, a block is counter-productive, IMHO. Here's why:

* Blocks off people who [i]might[/i] turn into useful contributors. What's wrong with people who initially join to sell? Of course their first post is going to be "Here's my X for sale". Lots of us here did just that and stuck around.

* Discriminates against long-term 'readers not posters'

* Links will turn up in 'for sale' anyhow

* If we say there's a min of 50 posts, what sort of post should they be - and where? If OT doesn't count, then they're going to clog up the 'useful' forums with all sorts of guff to reach their threshold. So, instead of one offending post, you've got 50. That's the same as allowing 50 one-off's.

Basically, let them get in and get out - clean and fast.

Edited January 16, 2011 by skankdelvar

[Kiwi]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1092006' date='Jan 17 2011, 12:39 AM']Is the volume of one-off's really worth worrying about?[/quote]
Not in the short term but in the long term it artificially inflates forum membership numbers and makes management of all accounts more time consuming.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1092006' date='Jan 17 2011, 12:39 AM']In fact, a block is counter-productive, IMHO. Here's why:

* Blocks off people who [i]might[/i] turn into useful contributors. What's wrong with people who initially join to sell? Of course their first post is going to be "Here's my X for sale". Lots of us here did just that and stuck around.[/quote]
There's nothing wrong with people joining initially to sell. That isn't the proposal here.

The proposal is to limit access to a forum that was created for the purpose of discussing Ebay links, not advertising them. I guess that hasn't really been made explicitly clear but it was the understanding behind the initial creation of the forum (which was in response to popular requests IIRC)

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1092006' date='Jan 17 2011, 12:39 AM']* Discriminates against long-term 'readers not posters'[/quote]
The forum can still be viewed by long term lurkers.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1092006' date='Jan 17 2011, 12:39 AM']* Links will turn up in 'for sale' anyhow[/quote]
Which is probably the best place for them, to be honest. The membership has already expressed some fairly strong views about For Sale threads that just list a link and no other information.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1092006' date='Jan 17 2011, 12:39 AM']* If we say there's a min of 50 posts, what sort of post should they be - and where? If OT doesn't count, then they're going to clog up the 'useful' forums with all sorts of guff to reach their threshold. So, instead of one offending post, you've got 50. That's the same as allowing 50 one-off's. [/quote]
Not sure that the kind of people who would go to that kind trouble would necessarily be welcome by the time they achieve their objective.

[skankdelvar]

[quote]The proposal is to limit access to a forum that was created for the purpose of discussing Ebay links, not advertising them. I guess that hasn't really been made explicitly clear but it was the understanding behind the initial creation of the forum (which was in response to popular requests IIRC)[/quote]
Thanks for the reply, Kiwi. Oops! I think I've probably misinterpreted the general thrust here for which my apologies.

Not knowing the back story, I mistakenly thought the forum had been set up not only to discuss ebay stuff but also to promote members listings. Clearly, if it's about restoring it to its original discussional purpose then the proposal is entirely sound in this respect .

I shall shut up now.

Cheers,

P.

Edited January 17, 2011 by skankdelvar

[Kiwi]

No worries. I can't help but wonder if the process might have been simpler if we'd just went ahead implemented it, though.

[pete.young]

I think it's great that you've given people an opportunity to give you their views.

I'm not sure how well it will work. I suspect people like this won't care where they advertise their stuff, so if they can't post in ebay it will clutter up for sale, or general discussion, or wherever. Then you need to decide whether to leave the clutter, or police it and clear out the listing adverts (more work for the mods).

And as others have suggested, it would be trivial for someone to create a thread, plus 1 it 49 times and away they go. Automating this is trivial with HTML testing tools, which are freely available.

I think you would be better off creating a group for people to advertise their ebay listings with no posting limit, which will free up the current group for people to discuss listings (which you could then put a limit of number of postings on to keep out the riff-raff).

This won't achieve your other objective of providing a resource for drive-bys with no interest in the forum. I don't see an easy answer to that.

[setekh]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='1092060' date='Jan 17 2011, 12:35 AM']Not in the short term but in the long term it artificially inflates forum membership numbers and makes management of all accounts more time consuming.[/quote]
Do you seriously feel that way? How difficult is a yearly clean up of accounts that are, say, haven't been active in a year and have less thant 5 posts attributed to them? I know it is not. So it'd take five man hours a year to purge the database. Does that sound too much? I would actually be quite surprised if more than 5% of the 12k members were in that situation.

Much like skankdelvar, I find this restriction to be more potentially harmful than otherwise. I don't think you'll reap the potential benefits you expect to, but the scenario will, at best, be mixed.

I've been seeing the forum get more and more restrictive as of late. I don't think that's the way you want to go, especially when it does not seem appalingly clear that it is needed.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='setekh' post='1092489' date='Jan 17 2011, 01:50 PM']Do you seriously feel that way?[/quote]
Sadly, it's not a personally-held conviction that I'm prepared to defend until the bitter end.

[quote name='setekh' post='1092489' date='Jan 17 2011, 01:50 PM']Much like skankdelvar, I find this restriction to be more potentially harmful than otherwise. I don't think you'll reap the potential benefits you expect to, but the scenario will, at best, be mixed.[/quote]
Skank has already stated comments were based on a misperception.

In any case, I can't find a setting behind the scenes that allows access to be restricted to particular forums based on post count or membership rank, just membership status, and I've been advised that creating a setting would be "complicated" by Prof. Phatmonkey.

I feel like quoting a line from Shakespeare's "Much Ado About Nothing", but regrettably I'm not that well read. Instead I'll just change the description on the Ebay links forum so its clearer what the purpose of the forum is.

[setekh]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='1093276' date='Jan 17 2011, 11:06 PM']Sadly, it's not a personally-held conviction that I'm prepared to defend until the bitter end.


Skank has already stated comments were based on a misperception.

In any case, I can't find a setting behind the scenes that allows access to be restricted to particular forums based on post count or membership rank, just membership status, and I've been advised that creating a setting would be "complicated" by Prof. Phatmonkey.

I feel like quoting a line from Shakespeare's "Much Ado About Nothing", but regrettably I'm not that well read. Instead I'll just change the description on the Ebay links forum so its clearer what the purpose of the forum is.[/quote]
Well, then, my mistake. Apparently, I was under the impression that you were interested in discussing the matter. Evidently, however, this was just an announcement. I'm sorry I'm not patting you in the back, but I disagree with the philosophy behind this move.

Edited January 17, 2011 by setekh

[Kiwi]

[quote name='setekh' post='1093315' date='Jan 17 2011, 11:42 PM']Well, then, my mistake. Apparently, I was under the impression that you were interested in discussing the matter. Evidently, however, this was just an announcement. I'm sorry I'm not patting you in the back, but I disagree with the philosophy behind this move.[/quote]
Thanks for your input but if you read the original post, I just asked if anyone was going to be adversely affected. You have 194 posts as of your response above so it looks like you won't be affected at all.

[algmusic]

[quote name='Kev' post='1090527' date='Jan 15 2011, 03:34 PM']I think my opinion is fairly well known, there should be such a limit on [b][i]all[/b][/i] sale forums, but i don't see much merit in just applying the limit to the ebay forum, as someone said why not just move the threads to the sale forums instead.[/quote]


++1,000.

I totally agree. I think, people should realise that you can't just expect to post things on this site to make a quick bick without understanding the point of the site. Also, I like the confidence I get from BC on advice and also buying and selling on here.

I've had alot of advice from this site and equally I have given my 2p of foolish advice and hopefully one of my many many posts has helped someone.

[Lorne]

I introduced a Similar rule on the BC Rich Player's Forum.

For a few reasons, It is annoying as hell, having someone show up, "I have this xxxxxxx for sale", it gets sold, you never see them again, they use forums as a free Ebay, the Forum's don't get paid for it, but when someone buys a guitar on a Forum, and it doesn't get sent to them (I.E., they get ripped off) the Forum always gets mentioned, like thay had something to do with the theft

Also, our 50 post limit requires "Meaningful posts", our members will soon point out if someone posts "Nice guitar" 50 times and then post #51 "I have for sale"

We like to think that within 50 posts, members will get their own "Gut instinct" about wether a seller is to be trusted or not.Some other forums require 100 posts or more

Also, on our Forum, we have introduced a 30 day rule.If you have not posted a single thing within 30 days of signing up, your account will be deleted. A Forum, is a Discussion Forum, for exchanging ideas/facts/interactions, the 30 days gives a member a lot of time to look around, and see if they like the look of the place, or 30 days to rape the Catalogue section of as many catalogue scans as they can LOL.It saves a lot of database cost, when you can delete 10,000 member's info that never post, and leave you with 1,400 that have actually said something at some point,even if it was only once

If you just want to read something, go to the Library, if you want to be interactive, join a forum

[algmusic]

[quote name='Lorne' post='1093758' date='Jan 18 2011, 01:05 PM']I introduced a Similar rule on the BC Rich Player's Forum.

For a few reasons, It is annoying as hell, having someone show up, "I have this xxxxxxx for sale", it gets sold, you never see them again, they use forums as a free Ebay, the Forum's don't get paid for it, but when someone buys a guitar on a Forum, and it doesn't get sent to them (I.E., they get ripped off) the Forum always gets mentioned, like thay had something to do with the theft

Also, our 50 post limit requires "Meaningful posts", our members will soon point out if someone posts "Nice guitar" 50 times and then post #51 "I have for sale"

We like to think that within 50 posts, members will get their own "Gut instinct" about wether a seller is to be trusted or not.Some other forums require 100 posts or more

Also, on our Forum, we have introduced a 30 day rule.If you have not posted a single thing within 30 days of signing up, your account will be deleted. A Forum, is a Discussion Forum, for exchanging ideas/facts/interactions, the 30 days gives a member a lot of time to look around, and see if they like the look of the place, or 30 days to rape the Catalogue section of as many catalogue scans as they can LOL.It saves a lot of database cost, when you can delete 10,000 member's info that never post, and leave you with 1,400 that have actually said something at some point,even if it was only once

If you just want to read something, go to the Library, if you want to be interactive, join a forum [/quote]

You sound as grumpy as me :-) But I do think it's a cheek as BC gets nothing for the sale. They can use gumtree

[Lorne]

[quote name='algmusic' post='1093805' date='Jan 18 2011, 01:39 PM']You sound as grumpy as me :-)[/quote]


I've got 3 kids, I have a right to be grumpy

[charic]

Just a thought off the cuff. Limit to being a member for one week might do the job nicely

[simon1964]

I can see the sense in this, but if the limit exists for the ebay forum shouldn't it logically exist for the for sale forum as well? I'm not sure I follow the logic of having a limit for one but not the other.

[absolutpepper]

[quote name='simon1964' post='1095212' date='Jan 19 2011, 02:38 PM']I can see the sense in this, but if the limit exists for the ebay forum shouldn't it logically exist for the for sale forum as well? I'm not sure I follow the logic of having a limit for one but not the other.[/quote]

I completely agree. There seems to be a plethora of 'Newbies' on the site recently who come on to tout their wares and the proceed to bugger off again. A min post idea for all selling forums is not such a bad idea in my books.

[algmusic]

[quote name='absolutpepper' post='1095350' date='Jan 19 2011, 04:43 PM']I completely agree. There seems to be a plethora of 'Newbies' on the site recently who come on to tout their wares and the proceed to bugger off again. A min post idea for all selling forums is not such a bad idea in my books.[/quote]

+100000000000

[warwickhunt]

Hang on! Members and Moderators alike seem to think that links to eBay auctions should be in the 'ebay' section of the forum and in fact one has just been moved!

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=119642&st=0&gopid=1098519&#entry1098519"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...p;#entry1098519[/url]

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='absolutpepper' post='1095350' date='Jan 19 2011, 04:43 PM']I completely agree. There seems to be a plethora of 'Newbies' on the site recently who come on to tout their wares and the proceed to bugger off again. A min post idea for all selling forums is not such a bad idea in my books.[/quote]

conversely ive just sold a amp and a bass to people who had 4 posts between them....

[tarcher]

If there was a problem then I could see the sense but there doesn't really seem to be a problem.
I only joined the forum to buy a bass in the for sale section but have ended up making a few friends on here but in the couple of years or so I've been a member my post count is faily low.

[simon1964]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='1099166' date='Jan 22 2011, 10:58 PM']conversely ive just sold a amp and a bass to people who had 4 posts between them....[/quote]

I don't have a problem at all with people joining to buy stuff. But there does seem to be a trend for people to join, post often quite expensive stuff for sale, taking advantage of free advertising and avoiding the fees they would face on ebay etc.

There is a good example today, where a new member with no previous posts has posted a vintage bass and guitar amp for sale, both of which will be expensive items (although he hasn't posted a price!). I can't see how that's different to a new member posting an ebay link.

Edited January 24, 2011 by simon1964

[Stuee]

[quote name='simon1964' post='1100737' date='Jan 24 2011, 01:14 PM']I don't have a problem at all with people joining to buy stuff. But there does seem to be a trend for people to join, post often quite expensive stuff for sale, taking advantage of free advertising and avoiding the fees they would face on ebay etc. SNIP[/quote]

I'm not taking any sides here, I haven't read the whole thread, but if I can play devil's advocate for a moment...

People coming here to sell great gear is also a boon to the players, enthusiasts and collectors who populate this forum, as the whole atmosphere of BassChat encourages much better communication between parties, and almost certainly better prices than eBay as a result.

I must admit I signed up because I wanted to use the marketplace, but within a very short time I have got caught up with the whole great vibe of the community and will remain for as long as it survives. And with any inclusive community, whatever brings in new members and helps it thrive, is good... right?

Like I said, though, this isn't my hard & fast opinion. This discussion is far more nuanced than that I know. But it's a side of it to bear in mind.

Cheers, Stuee.

[tauzero]

This question of which forum adverts for one's own ebay auctions should be on is getting silly. Despite the fact that the description of the forum says it's for discussing ebay auctions, adverts for auctions are still getting shoved over there.

Could I propose a simple change to the "For Sale" rules for basses/amps/etc - that [b]either[/b] a price should be posted [b]or[/b] the advert is for an Ebay auction (or other official auction site).

[setekh]

[quote name='Stuee' post='1100755' date='Jan 24 2011, 01:31 PM']I'm not taking any sides here, I haven't read the whole thread, but if I can play devil's advocate for a moment...

People coming here to sell great gear is also a boon to the players, enthusiasts and collectors who populate this forum, as the whole atmosphere of BassChat encourages much better communication between parties, and almost certainly better prices than eBay as a result.

I must admit I signed up because I wanted to use the marketplace, but within a very short time I have got caught up with the whole great vibe of the community and will remain for as long as it survives. And with any inclusive community, whatever brings in new members and helps it thrive, is good... right?

Like I said, though, this isn't my hard & fast opinion. This discussion is far more nuanced than that I know. But it's a side of it to bear in mind.

Cheers, Stuee.[/quote]
The fact that the evil newbies who join to sell are nothing if not beneficial to the forum is something that flies over many heads around these parts, I agree.