Amp suggestions: P-bass, flats, retro 7-piece **UPDATE!**

[KK Jale]

After returning to bass and existing on the kindness of mates and borrowed gear for a couple of months, I'm on the verge on having to make a decision about a new rig and could use some input.

I'm going separates. The cab will almost certainly be one of the new generation lightweights, probably 1x15". I'll choose one after I've got the amp.

But what amp?

My favourite players are Duck Dunn, Rick Danko and Carol Kaye. I use a Precision with flats, both fingerstyle and pick. The band plays medium-sized pubs doing original country and soul material sprinkled with a few '60s/70s covers… think Buffalo Springfield, Band, Traffic.

We're a seven-piece with the PA almost always reserved for the vocalist/rhythm guitarist and the two horn players, so it's almost always backline only. Keyboard guy has a 100W trannie amp set to stun, lead guitarist uses a vintage tweed amp full up, drummer can get fairly enthusiastic. I think I need at least 200 watts. More would be nice.

My first thought is an LMII or III. But will it be too clean?

My second thought is a Terror. But will it be too rock?

What might fall between those two?

Edited February 15, 2011 by KK Jale

[wateroftyne]

You'll get lots of answers, but I'm amazed at how good the [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/ibanez_p500_promethean.htm"]Ibanez Promethean[/url] is. It's a hell of a lot of amp for £400. It's on the warm side for a micro-amp, well-built and loud.

I my main head is a TC RH450, which would also be spot-on for a gig like that. It's quite a few more quid, though.

[charic]

How about the TC Electronic Classic 450 if you don't want to splash out for the rh450?

[LukeFRC]

what have you tried/borrowed so far?

fender bassman
all valve ampeg

would be top of my list, a big fat P bass sound.

next up would be something in between, the new fender tweedy combos look nice
my hughes and kettner can do a big fat warm valvey sound and the thickness of this can be dialed in or out depending on the mix. I've used it with 7-25 piece bands and its done a good job of being heard while not being too loud(and it's for sale)
something similar to that warm sound would work.
ashdown will be too thick and muddy for you I think, when i used one in a large band it just got lost unless it was too loud and then it was too loud.

I've not heard a LMII but would recommend a catalinbread SFT if you need a pedal to warm up your signal a bit. Ideally you find an amp where you don't have to do this!


Edit: oh the TC stuff also could hit the mark... It's going in the right direction I tired the classic and didn't like it but with another cab it may work great. It sounds a very similar problem you have to the one I had when I bought my H&K

Edited January 12, 2011 by LukeFRC

[KK Jale]

Good suggestions so far. Thanks.

I will try to sample a Promethean (though my gut feeling is that 1x10 ain't gonna cut it. Maybe I'm way behind the times, though, and it will).

I have been tempted by the Ampeg B200R (being a sucker for '60s looks) but rattles and headroom reports are putting me off.

Have also been recommended the recent Bassman 2x10, but they seem to be discontinued. Also, it's a combo.

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='1086944' date='Jan 12 2011, 05:15 PM']What have you tried/borrowed so far?[/quote]

Great question. On gigs I first tried an old Session 100 1x15, which ran straight out of headroom. Mostly I've been using a Trace AH150 head and 2x10" ported Trace cab, which is punchy enough, but without much to spare.

I tried an Ashdown 1x15 combo in rehearsal and it seemed to go just vaguely whompy. I love old-fashioned plumminess, but it seemed to achieve it in an ineffective way.

Edited January 15, 2011 by KK Jale

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='KK Jale' post='1086955' date='Jan 12 2011, 05:33 PM']I will try to sample a Promethean (though my gut feeling is that 1x10 ain't gonna cut it. Maybe I'm way behind the times, though, and it will).[/quote]

I meant the head - I've got the combo which is astonishing for the size, but the head is removable (you can buy it seperately for £400). Don't be put off that's it's Ibanez. It's a proper man's amp.

[alanbass1]

[quote name='charic' post='1086943' date='Jan 12 2011, 05:14 PM']How about the TC Electronic Classic 450 if you don't want to splash out for the rh450?[/quote]

+1

[KK Jale]

Ah, right, wateroftyne. Got it.

Classic 450 and Promethean head now definitely on the try-out list... along with the Little Mark.

[bartelby]

I use a precision with flats through a 1x15" (or a 4x8", or both) and a Mark Bass LMII.
It kicks out a lot of thump, but is very clean. So I have Sansamp BDDI to add a bit of colour and dirt, but even blended it scoops the mids.
I'm beginning to think an alternative for the BDDI might be in order.

[Cat Burrito]

I have to say you sound like me! I play flatwound P basses (foam under the bridge anyone?) and love all things retro, country, Americana etc. I too had the hesitations about Orange Terror but have taken the plunge. I'm not a big "Rock" guy and I'm happy to report that these do retro very well. I know you can get the rock sound but with your bass this amp really lets the bass do the talking. So if your bass is set up with flats etc, you'll get that vintage P thump and it won't suddenly make you Emo! Danko? Carol Kaye? These are absolutely my reference points too

Away from that though Ampeg are great, so are those tweed Fender Bassman combos. I also have a vintage 1978 Fender Bassman head but to be honest the lightweight Orange Terror head is getting more use at the moment.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='charic' post='1086943' date='Jan 12 2011, 05:14 PM']How about the TC Electronic Classic 450 if you don't want to splash out for the rh450?[/quote]
+1 to that.

The TC Classic 450 is very versatile, can easily do both grit, and clean. On board compression, very lightweight, its a great amp.

I previously had an Orange Terror, which is also a great amp btw, however the TC can do what the Terror does, but the Terror can`t quite do all what the TC can.

[thumperbob 2002]

[quote name='bartelby' post='1086990' date='Jan 12 2011, 06:14 PM']I use a precision with flats through a 1x15" (or a 4x8", or both) and a Mark Bass LMII.
It kicks out a lot of thump, but is very clean. So I have Sansamp BDDI to add a bit of colour and dirt, but even blended it scoops the mids.
I'm beginning to think an alternative for the BDDI might be in order.[/quote]

I have the LM 2 and the Sansamp BDDI- I am into that retro sound but I need a bit of clarity and I find that you can simply decrease the Bass and Trable on the BDDI and this adds mid- the cab I use- either Schroeder 2 x 12 or 2 x 15 - or both!- with a LG 1000 amp- are fairly mid heavy anyway.

Best sound I have ever had- I would recommend the sansamp- I think this makes more of a difference than anything else I use- great for recording too

[Musicman20]

LM2/3 with Sansamp BDDI pedal = win
TC RH450 or Classic 450 = win
Not tried the Ibanez, but its a bargain!
Orange Bass Terror = I think in your case, win

Not sure which Id take...hmm. Honestly, if I were in your shoes and had the cash for any of them, RH450 ALL the way. Stunning amp. There is nothing wrong with the rest, but the RH450 just tips it.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1087672' date='Jan 13 2011, 10:23 AM']Honestly, if I were in your shoes and had the cash for any of them, RH450 ALL the way. Stunning amp. There is nothing wrong with the rest, but the RH450 just tips it.[/quote]
I would agree with that - I'm amazed by mine.

FWIW, [url="http://www.youtube.com/jollybeggars"]I've just uploaded some clips[/url] of me plunking away on the TC and Promethean, with some walking lines. No posh mics or anything, so it's not for the purists... :-)

[sk8]

LM3 through a Bergantino NV412. Job done!!!!

[Hamster]

For me the cab would be an easy choice - a Barefaced Compact. These however are 8ohms and into it the TC450 would only produce around 225w. The cab is very sensitive and your 225w from a TC450 would be pretty loud.

If you need more power then go for the Markbass 2/3 with a Sansamp pedal to EQ your signal, or you can pick up a very nice Eden WT550 for similar bucks and the EQ on them is so powerful you won't need a Sansamp pedal - both would give you around 300w into the cab.

More power - Orange Bass Terror with a Sansamp pedal - 500w.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Hamster' post='1087803' date='Jan 13 2011, 12:04 PM']For me the cab would be an easy choice - a Barefaced Compact. These however are 8ohms and into it the TC450 would only produce around 225w. The cab is very sensitive and your 225w from a TC450 would be pretty loud.[/quote]
Absolutely - i've used the TC & Compact at a lot of gigs, and it's incredibly loud. Eventually, the 8ohm thing didn't cross my mind any more.

As an aside, I battled for years with a SansAmp, until I realised it was killing my tone and making all my basses sound the same... i can appreciate it's a tone some people love, though.

[yorick]

I'll second BurritoBass about the Terror head. I use mine for everything.... with a Precision

[Muzz]

Yep, another +1 for the RH450 - can do everything the LMIII/Sansamp can do, but in one box, and with lots of really useful stuff like an onboard tuner, a great compressor, adjustable EQ and three presets. Not cheap, mind, but the sound can also be had from the Classic for less cash (around LMIII money).

+1 also for the Schroeder 1515L - the smallest, lightest 800w 2x15 there is. As thumperBob says, it's a little mid-heavy, but that isn't a bad thing in itself, and there's so much headroom it can be EQ'd out anyway. A very, very loud combination.

Try before you buy, though - let your ears decide...

[Musicman20]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1087808' date='Jan 13 2011, 12:08 PM']Absolutely - i've used the TC & Compact at a lot of gigs, and it's incredibly loud. Eventually, the 8ohm thing didn't cross my mind any more.

As an aside, I battled for years with a SansAmp, until I realised it was killing my tone and making all my basses sound the same... i can appreciate it's a tone some people love, though.[/quote]

Agreed, esp on the Sansamp front. I like it, but its a colour that you cant get rid of at all.

The TC at 8 ohms will probably POUND most other micros at that setting due to the voicing/wattage rating between companies....TC have been extremely 'honest' about those watts. Dont ever think that 450W wont compete with the Genz 900W, as most people think they are virtually the same amount of watts! Thats voicing for you, and ratings. In addition, the TC amp can be pushed and pushed at its loudest points and it will just keep giving like a tube amp. The Markbass will clip like a solidstate which isnt pleasant.

No idea how the TC tube emulation works in a digital amp, but then again they invented the Polytune which again baffles me because it actually works so well!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Muzz' post='1087819' date='Jan 13 2011, 12:15 PM']Try before you buy, though - let your ears decide...[/quote]

Best advice!

[stinson]

I play Precisions with a LM2, its a great amp. I don't bother putting anything in front of it and I can get a great old school tone out of it.

[KK Jale]

This is all very helpful. Very, very helpful.

Re. the Compact… that's almost certainly the way I'm going. I just didn't want to get into it on this thread…

First, wateroftyne… excellent YouTube clips. The RH450 sounds really impressive… tip top. The Promethean comes over as very acceptable. Bit less focus and detail, maybe that's the settings, but a nice enough sound.

At the risk of sounding like a complete doughnut, I've got to be honest here… I cannot have flashy hi-tech lights. I just cannot. Not only am I spiritually allergic to blinking LEDs, but the piss-taking I would endure from my vintage Tele-playing, Hammond-organ stabbing, Selmer sax-sucking bandmates would be unbearable. So the TC is OUT. Sorry, TC. (Off-topic: Musicman20, my TC Polytune has let me down twice and the ****er ain't getting a chance to do it again).

Musicman20, Thumperbob, bartelby - you're helping me make up my mind on the Little Mark. I'm not ruling it out yet but there's no way I'm putting a preamp or pedal in front of an amp to get extra EQ or make it sound generally interesting enough. If any bass amp needs that, it's a fail in my book.

Burrito - you're definitely coming from the same place as me style-wise and if you're finding the Terror 500 does retro without being too rock, then that's an important recommendation. I will try one, that's a definite.

[sk8]

worth trying a LM though as i use one for a clean, old school vibe. Don't the VLE and VPF knobs - very useful.

Its very comaparable with my Hiwatt Custom

[Musicman20]

Sounds like the LM2 / LM3 are perfect