Ernie Ball Musicman Gamechanger now a reality

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1095894' date='Jan 19 2011, 05:35 PM']Are you referring to me here?[/quote]
I hope not.

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='1095873' date='Jan 20 2011, 12:51 AM']I don't really have time to watch these videos, but I'm genuinely interested in what's upset you here.

What exactly was said about the comparison between the two?

What claims were EBMM making about the comparison between the two things (i.e. 1,2 in series as opposed to 2,1 in series)? Did they say you can or should be able to tell the difference between the two?[/quote]


[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095878' date='Jan 20 2011, 12:57 AM']Yeah, they did. We also have a claim of 16 tonal variations with just 2 coils but that just may be hyperbolic inertia in the populace acting as a multiplier.[/quote]


[quote name='dlloyd' post='1095885' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:09 AM']What [i]exactly[/i] did they say?[/quote]


[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095889' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:19 AM']That's from an earlier post in this thread [/quote]


[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095895' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:36 AM']So your asking me to tell me what you said? I don't understand the point of that. And you're telling me about tests done in the way you'd do it but you say you haven't seen any and want to see some done?

At this point I'd say buy one and enjoy all the different tones [/quote]

My post was in relation to this stream of conversation, clarifying the details of what I said earlier for the benefit of dlloyd.

For the second point, yes, I'd like to see the results of some testing. I wouldn't want to read any LCR values for the pickups, I'd want to see waveforms, prefereably overlaid, of the two sound samples. The reason for using something like an e-bow would be to limit potential variations caused by picking.

[Vibrating G String]

Why ignore the electrical properties of the circuit and try to introduce too many other variables. If there is no discernible difference in the circuit you'd just be trying to mess things up enough to claim some deviation is a different tone.

Saying "I wouldn't want to read any LCR values for the pickups" implies your decision is made. That's why I said buy it and enjoy it.

If the tone changes are this subtle, even if they do exist, this would not be a game changer but more of a price changer. Hmm, I wonder if Sterling has ever heard the term upsell?

[StevieD_FenderP2009]

This is why I'm sticking to my Fender P Basses, 1 volume and 1 tone. Nothing complicated about that and I can get a big range of tones from my P's from flat to really bright. This new "Gamechanger" thing from Ernie Ball seems far to complicated and a waste of time. If you don't like your guitars tone, get new pick ups/pre amp (if you're that way inclined) or change your EQ or get a new amp or throw in some pedals. Simple!

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='StevieD_FenderP2009' post='1095909' date='Jan 20 2011, 03:14 AM']This is why I'm sticking to my Fender P Basses, 1 volume and 1 tone. Nothing complicated about that and I can get a big range of tones from my P's from flat to really bright. This new "Gamechanger" thing from Ernie Ball seems far to complicated and a waste of time. If you don't like your guitars tone, get new pick ups/pre amp (if you're that way inclined) or change your EQ or get a new amp or throw in some pedals. Simple![/quote]
Yeah bloody right. It's like those idiots with their new fangled "auto-mo-beels". They're just too complicated. What's wrong with a horse and cart? "Click click" to go and "whoa" to stop - nothing complicated abut that. And if you want to go faster just keep putting more and more horses on. Simples!


Down with this sort of thing.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Ou7shined

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1095988' date='Jan 20 2011, 09:08 AM']I actually said a '51 P-bass trying to be sarcastic as it is a single coil pup. (Plus a Fender product not EBMM)[/quote]

Yeah, I know bugger all about P-Basses, which is how I managed to make the pickup 2 coils!! (that's the reason why I hardly ever make any posts about other basses!)

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095901' date='Jan 20 2011, 02:08 AM']Why ignore the electrical properties of the circuit and try to introduce too many other variables. If there is no discernible difference in the circuit you'd just be trying to mess things up enough to claim some deviation is a different tone.

Saying "I wouldn't want to read any LCR values for the pickups" implies your decision is made. That's why I said buy it and enjoy it.

If the tone changes are this subtle, even if they do exist, this would not be a game changer but more of a price changer. Hmm, I wonder if Sterling has ever heard the term upsell? [/quote]

Because, it's not just a resistive circuit.

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1095988' date='Jan 20 2011, 09:08 AM']...........
Has anyone said what provisions are going to made so that none of the user uploaded set-ups are carrying viri. Or indeed carrying one not to disable the host computer but to disable your instrument at an attempt to brick them in the middle of gigs??[/quote]

It's probably just a digital switching system if the signal's all analogue with some memory for the switch settings so probably not much scope for virusses.

Maybe someone could come up with a virus so it'll play Mustang Sally (so we don't have to)?

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1096018' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:35 AM']Because, it's not just a resistive circuit.[/quote]
I don't see how that applies to anything you quoted What did that answer?

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1096016' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:34 AM']Yeah, I know bugger all about P-Basses, which is how I managed to make the pickup 2 coils!! (that's the reason why I hardly ever make any posts about other basses!)[/quote]
In general a P bass is a 2 coil pickup, he was talking about the very early ones that are single coil.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Vibrating G String

[Grand Wazoo]

The one thing about this thread that's irritating, and which I declare is unparallel to my appreciation or less of the "gameboychanger" per-se is having to absorbe (by force feed) the spreading of the "EBMM QUARAN" from the fanbois off the ebmm forum, why must you? why here?. While one can entertain the thought of kissing Sterling Ball's ass in his forum, one must also realize that here, no one gives a peep, n'est pas?

Edited January 20, 2011 by Grand Wazoo

[Vibrating G String]

Right on!

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1096024' date='Jan 20 2011, 09:39 AM']I don't see how that applies to anything you quoted What did that answer?[/quote]

You have two AC voltage sources, if the waveform of one differs from the other (which is very possible, unless you have 0% manufacturing tolerance) there's the potential for a difference.

I don't deny the physics of series circuits, all I am saying is that I would like to see a comparison of the waveforms. I've not actually stated whether I think there's a difference or not, I'm keeping an open mind until I've seen it for myself.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1096051' date='Jan 20 2011, 01:57 AM']You have two AC voltage sources, if the waveform of one differs from the other (which is very possible, unless you have 0% manufacturing tolerance) there's the potential for a difference.

I don't deny the physics of series circuits, all I am saying is that I would like to see a comparison of the waveforms. I've not actually stated whether I think there's a difference or not, I'm keeping an open mind until I've seen it for myself.[/quote]
One, a hypothetical "they could be different" is hardly an answer for anything.

Two, what does that answer that you quoted from me? When you quoted me I inferred you were continuing from one of my points. I can't figure out what it could be.

[bumnote]

I expect the hollow bodies players had a similar reaction when Leo made the telecaster, and upright players when he did the precision.

Some people like the variax, some people like the roland system.

From my point of view it doesnt lok appealing from a live perspective, but some people will enjoy the opportunity for something different.

Live and Let live

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' post='1096032' date='Jan 20 2011, 09:44 AM']The one thing about this thread that's irritating, and which I declare is unparallel to my appreciation or less of the "gameboychanger" per-se is having to absorbe (by force feed) the spreading of the "EBMM QUARAN" from the fanbois off the ebmm forum, why must you? why here?. While one can entertain the thought of kissing Sterling Ball's ass in his forum, one must also realize that here, no one gives a peep, n'est pas?[/quote]

Actually, unless I'm wrong (which is entirely possible) I haven't actually displayed any 'fanboi' tendencies.

I have explained how (in my interpretation) the technology works. I've also said that some people have stated they can tell a difference between series wiring of coils and have said that I would like to see waveforms of the sounds (however, waveforms apparently are no good, no matter how they are generated).

Oh the irony...

[xilddx]

[quote name='StevieD_FenderP2009' post='1095909' date='Jan 20 2011, 03:14 AM']This is why I'm sticking to my Fender P Basses, 1 volume and 1 tone. Nothing complicated about that and I can get a big range of tones from my P's from flat to really bright. This new "Gamechanger" thing from Ernie Ball seems far to complicated and a waste of time. [b]If you don't like your guitars tone, get new pick ups/pre amp (if you're that way inclined) or change your EQ or get a new amp or throw in some pedals. Simple![/b][/quote]

Whereas if you don't like the tone on your GC MM guitar just flick a switch, even simpler.

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1096076' date='Jan 20 2011, 10:14 AM']Actually, unless I'm wrong (which is entirely possible) I haven't actually displayed any 'fanboi' tendencies.

I have explained how (in my interpretation) the technology works. I've also said that some people have stated they can tell a difference between series wiring of coils and have said that I would like to see waveforms of the sounds (however, waveforms apparently are no good, no matter how they are generated).

Oh the irony...[/quote]

Not you mate. lol not intended at you at all, you're alright Jim

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' post='1096032' date='Jan 20 2011, 09:44 AM']The one thing about this thread that's irritating, and which I declare is unparallel to my appreciation or less of the "gameboychanger" per-se is having to absorbe (by force feed) the spreading of the "EBMM QUARAN" from the fanbois off the ebmm forum, why must you? why here?. While one can entertain the thought of kissing Sterling Ball's ass in his forum, one must also realize that here, no one gives a peep, n'est pas?[/quote]

You're suggesting that fans of EBMM instruments shouldn't get involved in EBMM threads on Basschat?

[Musicman20]

Oh heck everyone, I can sense a internet argument brewing somewhere. No need to get too involved you know, if you dont like it, state why, then thats cool, we can all accept that.

I think the term 'fanboi' is a little difficult to digest. I think what I'd describe myself as is a player of EBMM instruments. This hasnt come around from the internet or forums, it has come from trying them out, and finding they work for me. I got my first real Stingray over 12 years ago, and Id wanted it for a few years before that! Why? The aesthetics, the different scratchplate, and more importantly, the tone. MASSIVE tone. That, and the fact my teacher at the time who stated that they make instruments that are very high quality without the 'custom' price tag.

So yes, Ive followed them since then, way before I got involved with forums. Am I a fan of their instruments? Yes. Why? Well, I am, thats it.

I say enjoy what you like, and dont get too bogged down.

[CHRISDABASS]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1096146' date='Jan 20 2011, 10:55 AM']Oh heck everyone, I can sense a internet argument brewing somewhere. No need to get too involved you know, if you dont like it, state why, then thats cool, we can all accept that.

I think the term 'fanboi' is a little difficult to digest. I think what I'd describe myself as is a player of EBMM instruments. This hasnt come around from the internet or forums, it has come from trying them out, and finding they work for me. I got my first real Stingray over 12 years ago, and Id wanted it for a few years before that! Why? The aesthetics, the different scratchplate, and more importantly, the tone. MASSIVE tone. That, and the fact my teacher at the time who stated that they make instruments that are very high quality without the 'custom' price tag.

So yes, Ive followed them since then, way before I got involved with forums. Am I a fan of their instruments? Yes. Why? Well, I am, thats it.

I say enjoy what you like, and dont get too bogged down. [/quote]

What he said!!

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1095901' date='Jan 20 2011, 02:08 AM']Why ignore the electrical properties of the circuit and try to introduce too many other variables. If there is no discernible difference in the circuit you'd just be trying to mess things up enough to claim some deviation is a different tone.

Saying "I wouldn't want to read any LCR values for the pickups" implies your decision is made. That's why I said buy it and enjoy it.

If the tone changes are this subtle, even if they do exist, this would not be a game changer but more of a price changer. Hmm, I wonder if Sterling has ever heard the term upsell? [/quote]

I think you're missing my point a little.

The reason I'm not interested in the pickup LCR values, is that I know they're irrelevant. Regardless of whatever they are for each coil (and there probably will be a slight variation due to manufacturing tolerances) I [i]think[/i] that any variation that may come through will be down to the wiring route within the GC. Because internally it will pass through a variety of switches (hazzarding another guess, I'd say they are probably connected through multiplexers), I'd say that there is a potential for the values to differ depending on the routing.

I'm fully aware that the variations (if they even exist) will be very small internally, but it doesn't take a major change of values to alter the fundamental frequency of the circuit.

However, I've not said anywhere that I think there are differences.

What I have done is pointed out that a lot of people have stated they can hear a difference. I'm fully aware that this is very subjective (as in the Pepsi Challenge) and I know if you want to hear or see something badly enough, you will. You can (subconciously no doubt) alter the style that you pick/pluck/strum the strings etc and there will also be the induced psychological effect caused by moving a switch.

What I've said all along, is that I'd like to see some repeatable tests done (yes by someone, probably not me as I can't justify spending that amount of money to to prove/disprove something theoretical) so that the resultant waveforms can be analysed and compared. That was the reason for using an e-bow type of thing, as it could be mounted in place and set to generate, without requiring any user control.

The only other thing I've done throughout is question your assertation that because some people have stated they can hear a difference, they are either being paid to say it, or a mindless fan.

Ultimately, it's only a guitar, no one is going to die because of it.

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='1096112' date='Jan 20 2011, 10:35 AM']You're suggesting that fans of EBMM instruments shouldn't get involved in EBMM threads on Basschat?[/quote]


Au contraire, the more the merrier, and variety is the spice of life but there is a thin line between threads about EBMM and preaching or trying to brain wash you etc., it seemed a few individuals were not happy with replies from the BC'ers who were indifferent to the game changer, kept coming back with "you don't understand the game change does this that and the other, almost too pushy at times.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1096383' date='Jan 20 2011, 02:27 PM']The reason I'm not interested in the pickup LCR values, is that I know they're irrelevant. Regardless of whatever they are for each coil (and there probably will be a slight variation due to manufacturing tolerances) I [i]think[/i] that any variation that may come through will be down to the wiring route within the GC. Because internally it will pass through a variety of switches (hazzarding another guess, I'd say they are probably connected through multiplexers), I'd say that there is a potential for the values to differ depending on the routing.

I'm fully aware that the variations (if they even exist) will be very small internally, but it doesn't take a major change of values to alter the fundamental frequency of the circuit.[/quote]

If those types of differences were enough to be audible then it would mean the actual GC circuitry was colouring the sound of the bass, something that would be generally seen as undesirable..

I am certain that the variance in your data will be far greater using an ebow than what you'd get from simply measuring electrical properties adequately - ie resolving power is greatly limited.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1096383' date='Jan 20 2011, 06:27 AM']I think you're missing my point a little.

The reason I'm not interested in the pickup LCR values, is that I know they're irrelevant. Regardless of whatever they are for each coil (and there probably will be a slight variation due to manufacturing tolerances) I [i]think[/i] that any variation that may come through will be down to the wiring route within the GC. Because internally it will pass through a variety of switches (hazzarding another guess, I'd say they are probably connected through multiplexers), I'd say that there is a potential for the values to differ depending on the routing.

I'm fully aware that the variations (if they even exist) will be very small internally, but it doesn't take a major change of values to alter the fundamental frequency of the circuit.[/quote]
[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1095886' date='Jan 19 2011, 05:13 PM']I never really was much good with science.[/quote]




EDIT: Hey, I just realized how well our sigs go together.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Vibrating G String