Ernie Ball Musicman Gamechanger now a reality

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1090200' date='Jan 15 2011, 10:22 AM']If you're using it in a live setting, you haven't got gazillions of options to switch between. The idea (as far as my understanding of it goes) is that you spend some time prior to the gig, recording session, practice in your bedroom in front of some bored family members etc, playing about and finding tones you like. You then load these 10 presets into the guitar and away you go for world domination.

The quotes about all of them sounding the same are interesting. Pretty much every guitarist (and quite a lot of Bass players from what I've seen) obsess over 'their' sound. Sound men get criticised for wanting to DI and control levels of bass in the mix, people embark on life long quests to find the perfect combination of amplifier, cabinet and effects, some people even spend huge amounts on cables (ok, these are mainly Hi-Fi enthusiasts who buy from Russ Andrews!) but you get the point.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are going to be some truly awful sounds within the various combinations and I also think there will be some that I won't notice the difference between, but I'm still not ready to write off something I've never even heard for myself, let alone tried. You can't base anything off the Namm video as far as audio goes though, it's difficult enough to hear that they're actually playing the bass, never mind individual settings![/quote]
Good call

[stingrayPete1977]

For once I actually have a useful point on effects which I'm not an expert on as I'm not a big fan all said but I have a multi effects unit and it has a million combinations, if you play the same riff using say a finger style some of the tones are so similar you would say nothing has happened but if you read the book and see what the preset is meant to be fretless effect for arguments sake then play a run more suited to that setting and all of a sudden it makes sense and the tones are clearer until you go back to just plucking again. I can see this being much the same. I still don't want one though

[Musicman20]

[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1090200' date='Jan 15 2011, 10:22 AM']The quotes about all of them sounding the same are interesting. Pretty much every guitarist (and quite a lot of Bass players from what I've seen) obsess over 'their' sound. Sound men get criticised for wanting to DI and control levels of bass in the mix, people embark on life long quests to find the perfect combination of amplifier, cabinet and effects, some people even spend huge amounts on cables (ok, these are mainly Hi-Fi enthusiasts who buy from Russ Andrews!) but you get the point.

but I'm still not ready to write off something I've never even heard for myself, let alone tried.[/quote]

Agreed on your points. The amps section is full of the tone for quest, with players spending a fortune on amps and cabs that probably make little difference to the crowd, but the bass player likes it. If you like to chase tone, then chase! Its much cheaper than chasing the ultimate car, for example.

[LawrenceH]

OK so I got 3 minutes through that video before I lost the will to live and had to give up. American guitar/amp manufacturers seem to specialise in these extended commercials completely devoid of information content.
So is there anywhere on their site that actually explains what this thing is doing that makes it so special? Because so far all I can gather is that it lets you combine pickups any way you want - but there aren't that many combinations possible with a 2-pickup system so I must be missing something. I was wondering if it used delay between pickups to give continuously variable phase shifts but since it's all analogue...or do the 8 million combinations include 'treble boost 3.1dB, treble boost 3.2dB'?
I'd like to see a good explanation of what's actually going on but so far I've only seen meaningless hype.

[stingrayPete1977]

I always use a di out it's not my job to be a soundman too, so as long as it's ok on stage the rest is their bag. If I was doing the desk and had a fiddling bass player turning up a micked up rig every two seconds I would end up as miserable as most sound guys!

Blimey not many combinations from 2 pups, some people have about 20 from one pup! Confuddles me but I know it exists.

Edited January 15, 2011 by stingrayPete1977

[Doctor J]

The seem to have overlooked the humble blend pot, which might also offer a gajillion other tonal change possibilities.

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1090448' date='Jan 15 2011, 02:23 PM']OK so I got 3 minutes through that video before I lost the will to live and had to give up. American guitar/amp manufacturers seem to specialise in these extended commercials completely devoid of information content.
So is there anywhere on their site that actually explains what this thing is doing that makes it so special? Because so far all I can gather is that it lets you combine pickups any way you want - but there aren't that many combinations possible with a 2-pickup system so I must be missing something. I was wondering if it used delay between pickups to give continuously variable phase shifts but since it's all analogue...or do the 8 million combinations include 'treble boost 3.1dB, treble boost 3.2dB'?
I'd like to see a good explanation of what's actually going on but so far I've only seen meaningless hype.[/quote]

Did you look at the NAMM video, or the one from the EBMM website? The NAMM one is a bit pants.

The coils of the pickup are treated separately, so 2 humbuckers gives 4 coils.

If you take coil 1 for example, you can get the combinations

1, 12, 13, 14, 123, 124, 134, 1234, 142, 143.

and you can have them in phase, out of phase, in series, or in parallel (I think Steve Morse says that 1&3 in series sounds different to 3&1 in series in one of the vids).

The 8.5 million combinations stated come from having 6 coils in use and works on the assumption that the coils in series sound different.

As far as I've been able to see, things like tone and volume controls are not a part of what it does, it just gives lots of switching options, but I can see it being possible to incorporate that within the future.

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='1090511' date='Jan 15 2011, 03:12 PM']The seem to have overlooked the humble blend pot, which might also offer a gajillion other tonal change possibilities.[/quote]

My Bongo has a blend pot. I think in time, it will be offered on the GameChanger though.

[Marlat]

It seems like a very well engineered solution to a problem noone has. I find it hard to believe that EBMM were getting more requests for analogue pickup rewiring solutions.

[MythSte]

Great idea and nice to see someone pushing the boat out on things like this - even though I do agree it seems to be a solution to a problem no one really has.

The really interesting thing would be to see how close someone could get to tone number 6,564,322 with a HH ray though!

[Bassmurf]

Fair play to them for trying to come up with something different, though IMHO it's only really something that high profile "name" players and session guys would have the time, inclination and need for so many tonal variations to hand...the rest of us possibly not so much!

[Musicman20]

As per most the new EBMM offerings (apart from the Classic series) they are trying to get away from the 50s/60s mindset that's continued forever of 'must have Fender P/J for everything'.

Dont get me wrong, I like a nice P or J, but I like new things as well.

Lets face it, how many more companies can make boring Jazz-copies that 'dont sound quite as good as Fender without tweaking, have higher build quality, but are very expensive'. I mention no names, but I for one think Fender still make the best passive 4 string Jazz....but you have to search very hard to get the right one.

Same with a P bass. Simple passive P bass? Fender every time.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1090435' date='Jan 15 2011, 02:08 PM']The amps section is full of the tone for quest, with players spending a fortune on amps and cabs that probably make little difference to the crowd,[/quote]


Mr Pot meet Mr Kettle, you iz both black!

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1090549' date='Jan 15 2011, 03:51 PM']....Same with a P bass. Simple passive P bass? [s]Fender[/s] G&L L-1000 every time.[/quote]
Corrected.

[Marlat]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1090549' date='Jan 15 2011, 03:51 PM']As per most the new EBMM offerings (apart from the Classic series) they are trying to get away from the 50s/60s mindset that's continued forever of 'must have Fender P/J for everything'.[/quote]

It would be a fairly silly business model for them if they were trying to encourage a P/J for everything (since they don't make one). That said, instruments are tools for making music and companies should make the tools that best help the artists produce their art. If the artists are crying out for 250,000 pickup wiring combinations, then an instrument maker better bring that to market (as EBMM have done). However, if the ones making the music feel that a simple P or J is the best tool for the job, why move from that mindset? That's my take on the Gamechanger, its clearly not for me because i've always felt that minutia difference in tone between pickup wiring configurations didn't add to the music I wanted to make. Some musicians probably think it will. That's why its good to have options (albeit calling it a "gamechanger" is a bit naff). Lets revisit this in a year and see how much the game has changed.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Mark Latimour' post='1090573' date='Jan 15 2011, 04:08 PM']It would be a fairly silly business model for them if they were trying to encourage a P/J for everything (since they don't make one). That said, instruments are tools for making music and companies should make the tools that best help the artists produce their art. If the artists are crying out for 250,000 pickup wiring combinations, then an instrument maker better bring that to market (as EBMM have done). However, if the ones making the music feel that a simple P or J is the best tool for the job, why move from that mindset? That's my take on the Gamechanger, its clearly not for me because i've always felt that minutia difference in tone between pickup wiring configurations didn't add to the music I wanted to make. Some musicians probably think it will. That's why its good to have options (albeit calling it a "gamechanger" is a bit naff). Lets revisit this in a year and see how much the game has changed.[/quote]

Dont get me wrong, I think they are well aware there is some players who will never need it. Hey, do any of us? Not really, but its a different flavour for a player to try.

Im happy with the current sounds I have, so no idea if id ever go for one....but I like the idea. If I try one and it works for me, heck, ill go for it. Rather than than buy yet another expensive Jazz copy.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='lemmywinks' post='1090564' date='Jan 15 2011, 04:02 PM']Mr Pot meet Mr Kettle, you iz both black![/quote]

Lol, I realise I went through a lot of different options, and I still look at other amps and cabs. Now, I wont buy anything unless it seriously impresses me and adds something extra. Ive found my current amps/cabs are perfect. Too many? Yes, but thats it....until TC upgrade the RH450.

RH450 + cabs - awesome, going nowhere.

Orange is going nowhere, and the Aguilar cab is my favourite cab of all time.

LM3 - Great, and again, going nowhere.

Other cab GAS needs controlling, as I will probably barely notice the difference.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1090522' date='Jan 15 2011, 03:27 PM']Did you look at the NAMM video, or the one from the EBMM website? The NAMM one is a bit pants.

The coils of the pickup are treated separately, so 2 humbuckers gives 4 coils.

If you take coil 1 for example, you can get the combinations

1, 12, 13, 14, 123, 124, 134, 1234, 142, 143.

and you can have them in phase, out of phase, in series, or in parallel (I think Steve Morse says that 1&3 in series sounds different to 3&1 in series in one of the vids).

The 8.5 million combinations stated come from having 6 coils in use and works on the assumption that the coils in series sound different.

As far as I've been able to see, things like tone and volume controls are not a part of what it does, it just gives lots of switching options, but I can see it being possible to incorporate that within the future.[/quote]

I looked at the EBMM vid actually, and thought it was rubbish! But as I said, I couldn't face going all the way through it. If it's essentially a (highly) glorified pickup selector then I can see it being very useful for guitars, but tbh far less so for bass where lots of the out-of-phase combinations aren't really going to be very conventionally useful, and lots of the series combinations will end up sounding very similar. Fair play to them for giving it a crack as there will be some good combos in there but it's not going to live up to their own hype and revolutionise the bass world!

[Marlat]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1090591' date='Jan 15 2011, 04:24 PM']Fair play to them for giving it a crack as there will be some good combos in there but it's not going to live up to their own hype and revolutionise the bass world![/quote]

I get the distinct impression using it on basses is an afterthought (it's a wiring circuit, why not?), but this will hopefully pay dividends for them in the guitar market where the sonic differences may be more meaningful.

[CHRISDABASS]

As much as i may not like the way Sterling comes across as a person, i love his willingness to innovate and create new and exciting instruments! they may not be for everyone but if it inspires new sounds and new music then surely thats a great achievement

Personally i couldn't deal with so many possibilities! the 3 pickup Big Al has more than enough options for me

[Musicman20]

[quote name='CHRISDABASS' post='1090613' date='Jan 15 2011, 04:43 PM']Personally i couldn't deal with so many possibilities! the 3 pickup Big Al has more than enough options for me [/quote]

Its a tone machine isnt it! The new Ed Friedland 5 string reviews shows off some of the cool possibilities.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

[quote name='Mark Latimour' post='1090599' date='Jan 15 2011, 04:30 PM']I get the distinct impression using it on basses is an afterthought (it's a wiring circuit, why not?), but this will hopefully pay dividends for them in the guitar market where the sonic differences may be more meaningful.[/quote]
+1
I can see this being popular with guitarists who might hear the subtle differences in sounds (as long as they don't then drench them in overdrive.)

[Machines]

Finally got round to watching the vids (whilst skipping the guitar parts). It's an interesting idea, however I expect a LOT of the sounds are so similar as to be indistinguishable from each other, thus a waste of time. I have respect for them for trying a new approach though, sounds like Sterling Ball got a bit bored of how things are currently (despite releasing a lot of new models recently).

I'd definitely like to sit down with one for a few hours and see what happened - am looking forward to seeing some prices.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1090623' date='Jan 15 2011, 04:50 PM']I was thinking it's probably something that guitarists will be all over thinking it's the best thing since since they last pleasured themselves. Where as being a more conservative lot bassist are more likely to go Mmne.h[/quote]

It's more 'fundamental' than that though (geddit?! you will!), an equal number of coils in and out of phase is going to kill the fundamental and early series harmonics which is far more of a problem for bassists than guitarists - there's a reason most basses don't bother with phase reverse switches that goes beyond the extra 2p it'd add to manufacturing costs. Could be more interesting on the odd combinations though.
I think my idea of a variable delay between pickups would be interesting, it would allow phase cancellations/reinforcements at higher order harmonics without necessarily being detrimental to the bottom end. Anyone ever does it? Should I rush to the patent office?!

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1090591' date='Jan 15 2011, 04:24 PM']I looked at the EBMM vid actually, and thought it was rubbish! But as I said, I couldn't face going all the way through it. If it's essentially a (highly) glorified pickup selector then I can see it being very useful for guitars, but tbh far less so for bass where lots of the out-of-phase combinations aren't really going to be very conventionally useful, and lots of the series combinations will end up sounding very similar. Fair play to them for giving it a crack as there will be some good combos in there but it's not going to live up to their own hype and revolutionise the bass world![/quote]

Ah, ok. It does have a certain 'style' to it, but I suppose it does have to be advertising led as the idea is to drum up interest.

Yeah, at the moment it is like the world's biggest pickup selector, but it's possible with the technology of the microcontroller to advance it in the future. I think there will be a lot of sounds in there that won't be useable and there'll be some that are barely distinguishable from others. Still, you never know there might be something in there that absolutely blows your socks off.

I've seen a lot of guitarists say that Bass players will get more out of it.....

[quote name='Machines' post='1090639' date='Jan 15 2011, 05:08 PM']Finally got round to watching the vids (whilst skipping the guitar parts). It's an interesting idea, however I expect a LOT of the sounds are so similar as to be indistinguishable from each other, thus a waste of time. I have respect for them for trying a new approach though, sounds like Sterling Ball got a bit bored of how things are currently (despite releasing a lot of new models recently).

I'd definitely like to sit down with one for a few hours and see what happened - am looking forward to seeing some prices.[/quote]

It's listed as a $500 MRSP increase over the regular reflex, with a predicted street price increase of $350. I guess over here it would be around £250-£300 more?