Ernie Ball Musicman Gamechanger now a reality

[xilddx]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1088998' date='Jan 14 2011, 09:56 AM']Yes, I know I seem to like everything they come out with, but Ive been seriously impressed by EBMMs since I started playing bass. The Stingray was my dream bass when I was 14 years old.

Here is their new revolutionary idea:

[url="http://gamechanger.music-man.com/"]http://gamechanger.music-man.com/[/url]

If you are interested, you need a good hour to sit and watch the videos and read the schematics.

The upcharge for this function. is much more affordable than you think. The bass basically looks exactly the same bar an extra input and a toggle switch. Subtle.

Forget the Line 6 Variax and the Gibson Firebird X! They are nothing like this...at all.[/quote]
I deliberately didn't read any posts on this thread before posting this, I didn't want my opinion coloured at all. And I watched all the vids. Isn't Tony Levin lovely!

It's revolutionary. Fantastic, absolutely the way to go. I salute Sterling Ball and his company. That is the single best improvement to an electric instrument since they were invented. I'll have a GC Big Al in Pearl White with a Jazz Bass neck thank you very much!

Now I'll have a read of this thread and see if I'm talking bollocks

Nice one Gareth.

[xilddx]

[quote name='NJE' post='1089132' date='Jan 14 2011, 11:39 AM']Its a nice idea but I cant help think its just more stuff to go wrong, and when it does my local tech wont be able to fix it. How many people really need 8 million bass sounds?[/quote]
They don't. They need 8 million OPTIONS and choose a few of them. You already have these options but you have to spend much paper and years of experimenting with basses, amps, cabs, effects until you get what you like. This GC eliminates almost all of that.

[xilddx]

[quote name='sshorepunk' post='1089118' date='Jan 14 2011, 11:29 AM']Great idea, but too complicated![/quote]
It's not, it looks really easy actually.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' post='1089192' date='Jan 14 2011, 12:15 PM']I'd say, the concept is appealing of course as a toy we'd all want to own one, but... the reality is grim: every sound man and studio producer is going to hate you. Chances are if you are a working musicians, and if you sit there in a session with your iPhone / iPad or other android device connected to your bass trying to download sounds which you liked at home but now they don't sound too clever in studio, you are at risk of pissing off every bloke in your band and probably will get fired in the long run for spending too much time faaakin' about with your new toy rather than making music as you are expected to.[/quote]
Come on, man, that's nonsense

[Machines]

Hmm I think I want one, damn it.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Sean' post='1089856' date='Jan 14 2011, 09:16 PM'][b]It seems odd to me how many people obsess over the minutiae of pickup config sounds and as soon as something this radical comes along that seemingly provides everything you could wish for the herd turns against it.[/b] I'm a P/J man totally but this system looks fantastic especially for anyone who uses different basses live.[/quote]


And wood tones.

I think a few people are going to start digging in their heels and diss the GC. Of course they will have commissioned their £2.5k custom basses with carefully selected tonewoods and five sounds that they're stuck with. And of course they'll say tone's in the fingers, and 'Jamerson didn't need all that sh*t' etc.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='silddx' post='1090791' date='Jan 15 2011, 07:44 PM']This GC eliminates almost all of that.[/quote]

Not exactly true. It's still going to have limitations in its tonal palette down to the pickup positions and construction type. It's versatile, but I think you have to think of it as somewhat akin to greyscale-type colour palettes - eg you can have 4 bit, 8 bit or 16 bit with 16, 256 or 65000 odd different shades of grey but there is no way you can get pink out of the system.
That's not to detract from the product as I'm sure it could prove very versatile if they implement it well, but it simply won't do a precise recreation of something like a basic p or jazz bass (or, if you used it on a Big Al, a Stingray).

[xilddx]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1090448' date='Jan 15 2011, 02:23 PM']OK so I got 3 minutes through that video before I lost the will to live and had to give up. American guitar/amp manufacturers seem to specialise in these extended commercials completely devoid of information content.
So is there anywhere on their site that actually explains what this thing is doing that makes it so special? Because so far all I can gather is that it lets you combine pickups any way you want - but there aren't that many combinations possible with a 2-pickup system so I must be missing something. I was wondering if it used delay between pickups to give continuously variable phase shifts but since it's all analogue...or do the 8 million combinations include 'treble boost 3.1dB, treble boost 3.2dB'?
I'd like to see a good explanation of what's actually going on but so far I've only seen meaningless hype.[/quote]
If you could only be bothered watching it for 3 minutes, why should any of us bother wasting our own time explaining it to you, when the vids tell you all you need to know? Yes, you are missing something.

You clearly have no idea what the GC does, so why do you bother expressing your opinion?

[Machines]

For a home fiddler like me it'd be great, I could spend days trying to work it out and getting new sounds. Then again - the normal Reflex is probably the same for that !

[Kiwi]

My experience agrees with the Grand Wazoo, its just ridiculous for playing live. Most soundmen would go mental if pickups were being changed every 20 seconds while mid-set...or between songs for that matter.

[quote name='silddx' post='1090794' date='Jan 15 2011, 08:47 PM']Come on, man, that's nonsense [/quote]
Bedroom player!

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='silddx' post='1090803' date='Jan 15 2011, 07:56 PM']

And wood tones.

I think a few people are going to start digging in their heels and diss the GC. Of course they will have commissioned their £2.5k custom basses with carefully selected tonewoods and five sounds that they're stuck with. And of course they'll say tone's in the fingers, and 'Jamerson didn't need all that sh*t' etc.[/quote]

[xilddx]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='1090818' date='Jan 15 2011, 08:03 PM']My experience agrees with the Grand Wazoo, its just ridiculous for playing live. Most soundmen would go mental if pickups were being changed every 20 seconds while mid-set...or between songs for that matter.[/quote]
But who's going to do that. Like the man said, you choose a few active and a few passive tones that work for you. Those are what you use.

A lot of us have two or three pickup basses, 3 band active circuits, active/passive switches, series/parallel/split coil switches with all sorts of tonal possibilities, thousands. None of us f*** around onstage with them do we, we know what we like - about four or five options, that's what we use. We probably have lots of different basses too.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='silddx' post='1090811' date='Jan 15 2011, 08:00 PM']If you could only be bothered watching it for 3 minutes, why should any of us bother wasting our own time explaining it to you, when the vids tell you all you need to know? Yes, you are missing something.

You clearly have no idea what the GC does, so why do you bother expressing your opinion?[/quote]

You've just quoted a message where I expressed no opinion other than frustration at the marketing - I didn't just watch 3 mins of the video I spent a fair while trawling the site for more precise technical info first before trying the video, which was devoid of any actual technical explanation up to 3 mins in and was pretty irritating.

Below that someone was kind enough to summarise what it actually did. And then I commented on that, assuming it was a correct explanation. I didn't say I thought it was rubbish either.

[stingrayPete1977]

I'm not really keen on any position on my Ray5 other than in standard stingray mode, if they had done one without a switch for less money I would of had it. I'm all for others having one and wouldn't mind a play around with one maybe I would change my mind once I got the hang of it?

I take it you like it Nige, but what do you think of big Poppa's outfit?

[Kiwi]

[quote name='silddx' post='1090822' date='Jan 15 2011, 09:10 PM']But who's going to do that. Like the man said, you choose a few active and a few passive tones that work for you. Those are what you use.[/quote]
If someone isn't going to use all the features to their fullest extent I don't see what the value is in having them. Why not just have the settings hardwired once the decision about settings has been made?

If the sales pitch was more honest, it's a good demo bass. Players would get most of the value from the added flexibility after a month when they've decided for themselves which settings work best. After that, its no more useful than a regular bass...unless the live gigging situation changes genres dramatically. The number of players out there who could use this feature fully is likely to be very small compared to the number of players who are prepared to believe this feature will make them appear more professional.

Even in the studio most producers won't have the patience to wait for a bass player to faff about with pickup settings, (unless the bass player is paying the bills). The bass player needs to have that stuff all locked down in their own time before turning up.

I don't have an issue with anyone who wants to buy one BTW, I just think the marketing is disingenuine and based on novelty value rather than real improvements in design.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='1090864' date='Jan 15 2011, 08:51 PM']If someone isn't going to use all the features to their fullest extent I don't see what the value is in having them. Why not just have the settings hardwired once the decision about settings has been made?

If the sales pitch was more honest, it's a good demo bass. Players would get most of the value from the added flexibility after a month when they've decided for themselves which settings work best. After that, its no more useful than a regular bass...unless the live gigging situation changes genres dramatically. The number of players out there who could use this feature fully is likely to be very small compared to the number of players who are prepared to believe this feature will make them appear more professional.

Even in the studio most producers won't have the patience to wait for a bass player to faff about with pickup settings, (unless the bass player is paying the bills). The bass player needs to have that stuff all locked down in their own time before turning up.

I don't have an issue with anyone who wants to buy one BTW, I just think the marketing is disingenuine and based on novelty value rather than real improvements in design.[/quote]
Every thing you said in this post I deeply disagree with. Sorry partner.

[Musicman20]

Some responses are far too serious! Its a fun way way of playing with your tone. Sound men and the guy recording me will just have to deal with it! I'm pretty sure theyd spend more time sorting out different settings for the guitar effects.

No one has played it, so we can't be overly negative. I personally trust they've done a good job like the Bongo and Big Al.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1090878' date='Jan 15 2011, 09:14 PM']Some responses are far too serious![/quote]

Some are also more about personalities than they are about the bass. I wouldn't pay them too much heed.

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='1090818' date='Jan 15 2011, 08:03 PM']My experience agrees with the Grand Wazoo, its just ridiculous for playing live. Most soundmen would go mental if pickups were being changed every 20 seconds while mid-set...or between songs for that matter.


Bedroom player! [/quote]

From what I've seen of it, I don't think you actually could use it like that even if you wanted to. You'd have to use your settings that you'd programmed in to the separate banks previously, as if you're trying to program via PC, it takes around 5 seconds to upload. You'd have to build some rests into your songs for that!! Also, you'd have to have your laptop strapped to your back (or at least be less than 5m from it) in order to program the thing.

I may have got the wrong end of the stick as to how it works, but the way I'm seeing it, is it's something you program in advance, rather than at a gig or recording session.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1090878' date='Jan 15 2011, 09:14 PM']No one has played it, so we can't be overly negative. I personally trust they've done a good job like the Bongo and Big Al.[/quote]

I think the main negative is a response to the way the product is presented, which we can each judge according to our own tastes! EBMM's style there reminds me a lot of Mackie, if you've ever read any of their product manuals you'll probably know what I mean.
Assuming I've understood what it does correctly then I think you can get quite a long way with conjecture since pickup phase and series-parallel switches are nothing new. If I was a guitarist then I'd be drooling over the idea of retrofitting this to an HSS strat! As a bass player though, I can't see it being a big success, especially given the utter lack of love for the old s1 switch which I felt added a really useful tonal option to the already versatile jazz bass.

[stingrayPete1977]

I have never tried an S1 jazz but the strat one is rubbish! I have never met anyone who ever found a nice tone with it switched in, Muddy mush switch doesn't sound as appealing as S1 though does it, Marketing just the same.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1090916' date='Jan 15 2011, 10:03 PM']I have never tried an S1 jazz but the strat one is rubbish! I have never met anyone who ever found a nice tone with it switched in, Muddy mush switch doesn't sound as appealing as S1 though does it, Marketing just the same.[/quote]

Well that's the general effect of running pickups in series! But a low-end boost and HF attenuation can be quite useful to bassists looking for a very thick, thuddy tone.

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1090900' date='Jan 15 2011, 09:41 PM']I think the main negative is a response to the way the product is presented, which we can each judge according to our own tastes! EBMM's style there reminds me a lot of Mackie, if you've ever read any of their product manuals you'll probably know what I mean.
Assuming I've understood what it does correctly then I think you can get quite a long way with conjecture since pickup phase and series-parallel switches are nothing new. If I was a guitarist then I'd be drooling over the idea of retrofitting this to an HSS strat! As a bass player though, I can't see it being a big success, especially given the utter lack of love for the old s1 switch which I felt added a really useful tonal option to the already versatile jazz bass.[/quote]

Have you seen how many "Game Changers" are around at the moment?

They're everywhere, it's downright confusing I tell you.

Even Behringer have changed the game apparently, although there are unconfirmed rumours that the game they've changed it to bears an uncanny resemblence to the old one....

One thing I think would be quite cool, would be to split each coil into two, so you could get a sort of pseudo P-Bass configuration. in various body positions.

Bugger, should have patented that before suggesting it!

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1090926' date='Jan 15 2011, 10:14 PM']Even Behringer have changed the game apparently, although there are unconfirmed rumours that the game they've changed it to bears an uncanny resemblence to the old one....[/quote]

[stingrayPete1977]

LawrenceH
"Well that's the general effect of running pickups in series! But a low-end boost and HF attenuation can be quite useful to bassists looking for a very thick, thuddy tone."


You get the same effect with Ashdown amps! I just can't get on with series switched sounds, see my earlier post about only liking my own bass in normal SR setting, maybe my ears have grown to like that sound only? Luckily it's a good one! Haha

Edited January 15, 2011 by stingrayPete1977