Ernie Ball Musicman Gamechanger now a reality

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1096786' date='Jan 20 2011, 12:51 PM']If those types of differences were enough to be audible then it would mean the actual GC circuitry was colouring the sound of the bass, something that would be generally seen as undesirable..[/quote]
I'm always baffled by those who claim they can hear, or assume they could hear, differences that we can't detect with lab instruments. If I was a more daring man I'd register on the EBMM forum and post 3 links.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustic"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustic[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sycophant"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sycophant[/url]

But I live close to the factory and guns are just too easy to get here

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1096786' date='Jan 20 2011, 08:51 PM']If those types of differences were enough to be audible then it would mean the actual GC circuitry was colouring the sound of the bass, something that would be generally seen as undesirable..

I am certain that the variance in your data will be far greater using an ebow than what you'd get from simply measuring electrical properties adequately - ie resolving power is greatly limited.[/quote]

The differences I'm talking about would alter the resonant frequency of the circuit, not exactly colour the sound, using 1/2pi root LC.

I'm not sure if it would be possible (without seeing a schematic) to measure the electrical properties within the GC.

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1096963' date='Jan 20 2011, 11:22 PM']I'm always baffled by those who claim they can hear, or assume they could hear, differences that we can't detect with lab instruments.[/quote]

Which was why I suggested analysing the waveform...

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1097003' date='Jan 20 2011, 04:01 PM']The differences I'm talking about would alter the resonant frequency of the circuit, not exactly colour the sound, using 1/2pi root LC.[/quote]Then it's not a new sound. You have to stick to one position or you'll appear to be flailing.[quote]I'm not sure if it would be possible (without seeing a schematic) to measure the electrical properties within the GC.[/quote]
If you really don't have basic knowledge of the subject maybe all this hypothetical speculation is a bit premature? I'll give you a clue though. Any difference can be measured at the jack. If it can't it's not a difference in tone.

These claims by EBMM require faith. I don't have it.

[Musicman20]

I could hear differences through the YouTube videos on my iMac.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Musicman20

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1097030' date='Jan 21 2011, 01:20 AM']Then it's not a new sound. You have to stick to one position or you'll appear to be flailing.
If you really don't have basic knowledge of the subject maybe all this hypothetical speculation is a bit premature? I'll give you a clue though. Any difference can be measured at the jack. If it can't it's not a difference in tone.[/quote]

The wiring traces internally will take different routes depending on which selection is made (unless of course EBMM have also developed a way to have two objects simultaneously occupying the same physical space). Changing the routing will change the circuit response of the coil and the resonant frequency of it, so coil 1 in configuration A will have a different repsonse to configuration B.

Does measurement affect the outcome?

It's my turn to give you a clue. Yes it does.

However, I don't think any of us have actually measured the output, or even played the thing, so it's all a bit academic really.

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1097030' date='Jan 21 2011, 01:20 AM']These claims by EBMM require faith. I don't have it.[/quote]

You seem to be under the impression that I'm blindly following everything they say without question. I'm not.

What I am doing though, which I'll gladly admit to, is questioning an absolute.

Edited January 21, 2011 by jimmyb625

[Maverick]

Coming very late to this thread and missing most of the discussion, to me it seems like a fairly decent idea, I can at least see how some (if not all) of the switching options would be useful.

But could they not have come up with a better name? For a start, I absolutely hate that turn of phrase anyway, and secondly it's just pure hyperbole that's probably setting the product for a massive fall when it doesn't live up to its name. Just give it a sensible name and let it sell itself, if it's good enough people will go for it.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Maverick

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='Maverick' post='1097219' date='Jan 21 2011, 10:48 AM']Coming very late to this thread and missing most of the discussion, to me it seems like a fairly decent idea, I can at least see how some (if not all) of the switching options would be useful.

But could they not have come up with a better name? For a start, I absolutely hate that turn of phrase anyway, and secondly it's just pure hyperbole that's probably setting the product for a massive fall when it doesn't live up to its name. Just give it a sensible name and let it sell itself, if it's good enough people will go for it.[/quote]

Yeah, it does seem to be the 'buzz word of choice' for everything nowadays.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='Maverick' post='1097219' date='Jan 21 2011, 10:48 AM']Coming very late to this thread and missing most of the discussion, to me it seems like a fairly decent idea, I can at least see how some (if not all) of the switching options would be useful.

But could they not have come up with a better name? For a start, I absolutely hate that turn of phrase anyway, and secondly it's just pure hyperbole that's probably setting the product for a massive fall when it doesn't live up to its name. Just give it a sensible name and let it sell itself, if it's good enough people will go for it.[/quote]



Plus the 1.

I think if it had been designed and promoted in the UK by someone less of a knob than Sterling Ball it would be called a "wiring switch".

Lets face it, this is an interesting gadget to have on a bass which, in the right hands and circumstances, may prove to be incredibly useful.
There's already basses which offer a multitude of useful tones, more than you'd ever likely want to use on a gig - Warwick $$, G&L etc.

Gamechanger? Totally unlocks my bass?
Nah.

Interesting concept?
Most definitely.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Maverick' post='1097219' date='Jan 21 2011, 02:48 AM']Coming very late to this thread and missing most of the discussion, to me it seems like a fairly decent idea, I can at least see how some (if not all) of the switching options would be useful.

But could they not have come up with a better name? For a start, I absolutely hate that turn of phrase anyway, and secondly it's just pure hyperbole that's probably setting the product for a massive fall when it doesn't live up to its name. Just give it a sensible name and let it sell itself, if it's good enough people will go for it.[/quote]
The ridiculous hype does mess things up a bit.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1097187' date='Jan 21 2011, 10:23 AM']The wiring traces internally will take different routes depending on which selection is made (unless of course EBMM have also developed a way to have two objects simultaneously occupying the same physical space). Changing the routing will change the circuit response of the coil and the resonant frequency of it, so coil 1 in configuration A will have a different repsonse to configuration B.[/quote]

This has strayed a long way from the realms of practical reality - these differences are absolutely nothing compared to just changing the length of the cable you use to connect up the bass!
As long as your input impedences are equivalent then there's no difference as far as the circuit's concerned between measuring it by meter or measuring it by waveform. But that's immaterial anyway since all that's required is that the measurement conditions remain consistent from one reading to the next.

Lemmywinks' summary has it for me.

[mcnach]

[quote name='jimmyb625' post='1097187' date='Jan 21 2011, 10:23 AM']The wiring traces internally will take different routes depending on which selection is made (unless of course EBMM have also developed a way to have two objects simultaneously occupying the same physical space). Changing the routing will change the circuit response of the coil and the resonant frequency of it, so coil 1 in configuration A will have a different repsonse to configuration B.[/quote]

Are you serious?

Pose that issue to a physicist, and your paragraph above will make sense and can produce some numbers. Absolutely.

Now, in real life... we're talking about an electric bass here. Not going to judge differences with an oscilloscope, but with a pair of ears listening to the air that one or several paper cones move, at the end of a chain of various low tech electronic devices.

Are you serious?

In my opinion (and yes, *just* an opinion), any sound difference that is not of the same magnitude as the differences perceived when using a tone control, for instance, or a pickup selector switch (bridge & neck, very different tones), is a difference that can be safely ignored.

[jimmyb625]

[quote name='mcnach' post='1098597' date='Jan 22 2011, 01:02 PM']Are you serious?

Pose that issue to a physicist, and your paragraph above will make sense and can produce some numbers. Absolutely.

Now, in real life... we're talking about an electric bass here. Not going to judge differences with an oscilloscope, but with a pair of ears listening to the air that one or several paper cones move, at the end of a chain of various low tech electronic devices.

Are you serious?

In my opinion (and yes, *just* an opinion), any sound difference that is not of the same magnitude as the differences perceived when using a tone control, for instance, or a pickup selector switch (bridge & neck, very different tones), is a difference that can be safely ignored.[/quote]

To be honest, what I'm trying to do is see if there are any logical reasons, beyond psychoacoustics, for quite a few people to perceive a difference between the series settings.

I'll freely admit that most of what I've speculated on is hypothetical though.

Personally, I think that if there [i]is[/i] a difference (never heard it in the flesh, so again it's just speculation) it will be as a result of subconcious changes to the way the strings are struck.

[Vibrating G String]

Or just simple group think. A quick read of The Emperors New Clothes will explain the phenomena completely.

The various hypotheticals trying to rationalize the assumption are just a side effect and would go into the more complex concept of Cognitive Dissonance. I find that in most people the truth is valued much less than being right.

Edited January 23, 2011 by Vibrating G String

[Machines]

Despite acknowledging the marketing is most definitely overcooked, I'd still like to have one to play with and experiment. Only I will decided if it really works, no-one else. That said, no way i'd splash out for it new...

[Vibrating G String]

It's the kind of thing you want your friend to buy and leave at your place for the weekend.

[henry norton]

It's about time a manufacturer gave everyone all the possible options without making the front of the guitar look like an Airbus flight deck, but the thing I like most about having a few different basses to choose from is they [i]feel[/i] different - I've yet to find a bass that can convert from a Precision neck to a Jazz neck then shrinking down to a Hofner violin short scale with a hollow body. I've no doubt EBMM have squeezed just about every tonal possibility out of their two humbuckers but changing musical styles is about more than just the sound IMO, and that's asides from the issue of strings. Maybe Ernie Ball are working on a bass string that converts from stainless round wound to nylon tape wound just by squeezing the ball end. I'll buy a pack of those

[leroybasslines]

It's very interesting, but I reckon the Game Changer would have me in tears within minutes! I'm definitely not a player that relishes loads of choice...it makes me anxious! I've always been happy to leave endless agonising about the minutiae of tone to guitarists while I just plugged in and was ready to go within 10 seconds or so. The Jazz system has enough tones for me - bridge pu when I'm feeling funky, both pups when I'm behaving. Even that confuses me from time to time...

Also, is it just me or is 'The Game Changer' pretty much the worst name ever? That's going to sound really silly in 10 years time and either the game didn't change or all guitars have 8 million combinations built in! Despite the excellence of their instruments, names haven't been EBMM's strong point of late, although 'Bongo' is starting to grow on me for some reason - it has always brought an annoying children's entertainer to mind...

[thodrik]

After watching the Gibson Firebird X demo, the Gamechanger looks like a P bass in comparison in terms of ease of use.

[stevie]

Why does this company think that musicians who have been happy with one basic sound for 50 years (OK, two at a stretch) are now suddenly going to want 15 million sounds? Even guitarists have been happy with a Strat and a Les Paul, maybe a Tele at a push, for decades. This is a product looking for a market that isn't there. The Gamechanger thing is just embarrassing. IMO, of course.