Spoombung Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I've noticed an increasing amount of custom builders offering a flat radius fingerboard as standard. I've heard that it is easier to get a lower action on such basses but I'm not altogether convinced about their merits. For me they seem to exaggerate the chunkyness of the neck and somehow add a feeling of hardness. In short, it feels more like playing a plank of wood rather than a comfy tailored thing. The edge of the fingerboard and the way the frets and the shape of the neck feel are vitally important on a bass and speaking personally, it's the first thing i notice when i pick up a bass...it's usually what sells the bass for me. Anyway, I'd like other people's opinions - and also tell me what radius you prefer (if you know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I find it hard to separate the feel of a certain radius from the general feel of the neck anyway. I certainly find my flat-radiused ACGs easier (and more comfortable) to play than any other 5-strings I've had or played, but they do of course have Alan's asymmetric neck profile on the back. I certainly can't tell how much either aspect contributes to the comfort, although I definitely find it easier to "reach" the B-string. I suppose it's just that little bit closer, because the radius isn't "falling away" from your fingertips. It also seems to encourage me to keep my thumb on the back of the neck. If I go back to something like a Ray, the symmetric neck profile and fairly small board radius seems to be an invitation to grip it like a sword. I assume it's a fair bit easier/cheaper to produce a uniformly flat plank than it is a uniformly radiused fingerboard, so I guess that's why it's starting to crop up as a standard option. Of course, when you start charging US$999 for a different radius (*cough* Fodera *cough*), that's taking the piss somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Personally, I'm a flat fingerboard convert. My Shuker 6 string has a 20" radius and my newer ACG 5 string is flat. I'm so impressed with how the flat board feels, I don't think I'll ever change from that now. You can of course get marginally lower action, but I guess you can close with most well thought out necks. I'm not sure how it'll work with a shallow/thin neck, as it would very much feel like a plank of wood as you say, but with an asymmetrical neck shape it feels right. Also, on a extended range bass, it certainly makes sense, as it brings the lower register strings closer to your fingers. I've played a fair few flat 4 strings too and they felt fine, really comfy, however having played 5 and 6 string basses for so long with my tiny wee hands, pretty much anything with 4 strings feels like putting on nicest comfiest slippers in the world to me now, regardless of the spec. Another thing to consider is that radiused boards only came about to make chord shapes, predominantly bar chords, more comfortable to play, so at least initially, it wasn't really relevant for bass, depending on how you play, or what you're used to. I guess it's just one of those marmite things. Eude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='BottomEndian' post='1089185' date='Jan 14 2011, 12:09 PM']If I go back to something like a Ray, the symmetric neck profile and fairly small board radius seems to be an invitation to grip it like a sword.[/quote] That's an interesting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='eude' post='1089187' date='Jan 14 2011, 12:12 PM']Another thing to consider is that radiused boards only came about to make chord shapes, predominantly bar chords, more comfortable to play, so at least initially, it wasn't really relevant for bass, depending on how you play, or what you're used to. Eude[/quote] I suppose I should revisit my nylon strung guitar and have a think about how the flat board relates to hand position... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Spoombung' post='1089209' date='Jan 14 2011, 12:26 PM']I suppose I should revisit my nylon strung guitar and have a think about how the flat board relates to hand position...[/quote] If something's comfy, brilliant, if it's not, try something else Have you got a flat board on any of your basses then? Eude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='eude' post='1089221' date='Jan 14 2011, 12:32 PM']If something's comfy, brilliant, if it's not, try something else Have you got a flat board on any of your basses then? Eude[/quote] No I haven't...I'm a bit conservative in some respects, although I obviously appreciate new designs. I won't go beyond 4 strings and I'm nervous about asymmetric necks and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikay Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I bought an ACG a couple of months ago and was surprised at how immediately comfortable the flat board felt. The fingerboard edge is somewhat less rounded than on a conventional board but to me it quickly felt right. Very easy to play and easier to setup. Most pickups are flat after all I'm not a flat board convert as such though. I have basses with radii ranging from 7.25" (old Fenders) to 23" (TRB5). All have there own individual playing character and personally I like this. The vast array of different types of bass construction and configuration is an excuse to continue my endless quest to find the perfect bass. Vive la difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='ikay' post='1089259' date='Jan 14 2011, 01:01 PM']The vast array of different types of bass construction and configuration is an excuse to continue my endless quest to find the perfect bass.[/quote] Ah yes, of course! I've been very interested in Armando's basses for some time now - that's what's prompted the subject. Like Alan, he also features flat boards: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikay Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Spoombung' post='1089275' date='Jan 14 2011, 01:12 PM']Ah yes, of course! I've been very interested in Armando's basses for some time now - that's what's prompted the subject. Like Alan, he also features flat boards:[/quote] Heheh, the only way to satisfy the itch is to take the plunge! My philosophy in life is to try as many basses as I can. No matter what you have there will always be something else out there to tempt you. I pondered the idea of an ACG bass for weeks before pressing the button. It's a beautiful bass - nearly perfect (but not quite I'm pleased to say!). Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='ikay' post='1089357' date='Jan 14 2011, 02:11 PM']Heheh, the only way to satisfy the itch is to take the plunge! My philosophy in life is to try as many basses as I can. No matter what you have there will always be something else out there to tempt you. I pondered the idea of an ACG bass for weeks before pressing the button. It's a beautiful bass - nearly perfect (but not quite I'm pleased to say!). Good luck![/quote] Well, I look at like this; I want different instruments for different purposes. I have two fretless basses that produce very different sounds for different occasions, I have a 'normal' inexpensive fretted bass (quite a pretty good one ) and I would like a short-scale fretted tuned from A to C (a guitary- type tuning I really like). So there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairobill Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I used to prefer flatter (16 inch radius and up) but have done a flip flop over to vintage fender spec on my bravewood. The combination of the narrow, well profiled neck and 7.25 inch radius really makes the bass 'disappear' into the hand. Flat boards now feel ungainly, with the vintage spec feeling more consistent as the hand rotates from high to low strings. Big change for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Cairobill' post='1089678' date='Jan 14 2011, 06:56 PM']I used to prefer flatter (16 inch radius and up) but have done a flip flop over to vintage fender spec on my bravewood. The combination of the narrow, well profiled neck and 7.25 inch radius really makes the bass 'disappear' into the hand. Flat boards now feel ungainly, with the vintage spec feeling more consistent as the hand rotates from high to low strings. Big change for me...[/quote] I'm rotating in your direction I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I'm not a fan of a flat board TBH width of nut and scale length 4 or 5 strings but always a bit of curve for me, same for my guitars too I prefer a les Paul sound but a strat type neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I really should do the maths but what occurs to me is, with a radius of say 20", how little a 4string board is different from a flat board. I'm not certain I could tell the difference. I feel that radius-ing boards is a bit of a throw back to violin construction. But then again you are far more experienced (and better)at playing than me Kev. Yes I really should do the maths Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Give some consideration to a neck with an oval cross-section, as opposed to circular, so you can maintain a more consistent wrist angle. Also worth considering a conical touchboard - rounder at the nut, and getting progressively flatter towards the body. The two in combination made for the most comfortable neck I've played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='GreeneKing' post='1089735' date='Jan 14 2011, 07:33 PM']But then again you are far more experienced (and better)at playing than me Kev. Peter[/quote] Nonsense. It's all smoke and mirrors, Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='eude' post='1089187' date='Jan 14 2011, 12:12 PM']Personally, I'm a flat fingerboard convert. My Shuker 6 string has a 20" radius and my newer ACG 5 string is flat. I'm so impressed with how the flat board feels, I don't think I'll ever change from that now. You can of course get marginally lower action, but I guess you can close with most well thought out necks. I'm not sure how it'll work with a shallow/thin neck, as it would very much feel like a plank of wood as you say, but with an asymmetrical neck shape it feels right. Also, on a extended range bass, it certainly makes sense, as it brings the lower register strings closer to your fingers. I've played a fair few flat 4 strings too and they felt fine, really comfy, however having played 5 and 6 string basses for so long with my tiny wee hands, pretty much anything with 4 strings feels like putting on nicest comfiest slippers in the world to me now, regardless of the spec. Another thing to consider is that radiused boards only came about to make chord shapes, predominantly bar chords, more comfortable to play, so at least initially, it wasn't really relevant for bass, depending on how you play, or what you're used to. I guess it's just one of those marmite things.Eude[/quote] erm. haven't violins and standups always had heavily radiused boards? i go 20" on a five and 16" on a four and to radius a board by hand is probably the most stressful part of building a bass, and all that sandpaper is expensive. but $999 to add a radius is absolutely ridiculous! i would expect you to radius my house for that! personally, i would never leave a board flat unless specified. i don't understand how a flat board would allow lower action either, unless the radius was poorly done. how low do you want the action any road? isn't low action a tonekiller. and i find i lose a lot of attack when slapping if the string height is too low. don't get me wrong, i like a nice action as much as the next guy, but no lower than sort of .120 at the 12th or summat. Edited January 14, 2011 by lettsguitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 A good luthier will have a machine that puts a very accurate radius on a board. Doing it by hand serves no useful purpose whatsoever imo unless you can charge $999 for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='lettsguitars' post='1089755' date='Jan 14 2011, 07:43 PM']$999 to add a radius is absolutely ridiculous! i would expect you to radius my house for that![/quote] Er...what's that all about, then...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Vincent Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Personally I find flat radius fingerboards far less comfortable to play,which is one reason I always seem to gravitate back to Fenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='lettsguitars' post='1089755' date='Jan 14 2011, 07:43 PM']i would expect you to radius my house for that![/quote] A mate of mine did that to someones house with a Ford RS Turbo in about 1995. Funnily enough they werent to happy with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 [quote name='lettsguitars' post='1089755' date='Jan 14 2011, 07:43 PM']erm. haven't violins and standups always had heavily radiused boards?[/quote] Indeed they have. I meant that radiused boards on guitars, classical guitars, at least ones that more recently predate leccy guitars, where flat, and the radiused boards came along not long after. Eude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 [quote name='eude' post='1090664' date='Jan 15 2011, 06:30 PM']Indeed they have. I meant that radiused boards on guitars, classical guitars, at least ones that more recently predate leccy guitars, where flat, and the radiused boards came along not long after. Eude[/quote] Violins, DBs etc. have a tight radius because they need to be bowed, not because it's more comfortable. If the strings were flat you wouldn't be able to bow individual strings! I started out on classical guitar with a six string bass width, flat board and strings a mile off the frets and never knew anything different for years. I think a flat board prevents the baseball bat neck grip and helps players position their hands better - you know, thumb opposite middle finger in the middle of the neck, fingers spread over 4 positions, all that crap.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 [quote name='henry norton' post='1090704' date='Jan 15 2011, 05:59 PM']I think a flat board prevents the baseball bat neck grip and helps players position their hands better - you know, thumb opposite middle finger in the middle of the neck, fingers spread over 4 positions, all that crap....[/quote] The Wal people used to give that as a reason for making their big, fat, uncomfortable, chunky necks. I found that such a perplexing idea and it had me scratching my head. I always think if you need to play a series of notes you should move your hand into a position to access them (whether it's 'correct' or not). I don't think the design of the neck should 'educate' the hand as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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