SignsOfDelirium_bassist Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Right, so here's the deal...I'm loving the sound of my jazz bass, especially with both pups on full, but I'm also starting to love the sound of a P bass. I don't really want to spend loads on doing up the cheap £50 P bass I've got, I'm saving that for practicing refinishing on So I figure the best think to do would be to change the electronics (Something I've been meaning to do for ages) to CTS pots, people seem to prefer them when it comes to resale value. I've heard whispers that I could wire a push/pull pot so when I pull it up, it'll act as master volume with both pickups in series, or parallel, whichever a P bass is wired like! I was hoping the good people here would be so kind as to help me find the parts I'd need, and more importantly, supply me with a good diagram I can follow Just to make sure I've got the right end of the stick here...From what I've heard doing this will mean when I pull the pot up, it'll make my bass sound more like a P, but with a touch more definition? Given the bridge pup placement an all? I hope this is the case, as the only thing that stopped me buying a P bass is the lack of definition you cna get with a Jazz Well, that and the chunky necks...for some reason I could never get on with them, despite finding my 6 string Ibby quite comfortable! Anywho, cheers! Jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBobTTD Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Ebay for CTS 250k audio pots. A great and what I would call simple diagram can be found [url="http://www.guitar-mod.com/wiring/j_series.gif"]here[/url]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikay Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 What you need is the Fender S1 switching mod, see here for details - [url="http://www.lordgoogle.com/bass/s1_mod/"]http://www.lordgoogle.com/bass/s1_mod/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikay Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Sorry just realised the mod being described uses an additional mini-switch. You can buy the Fender S1 pot/switch here [url="http://www.absolutemusic.co.uk/store/guitar-department-45/guitar-accessories-457/guitar-parts-4574/fender-s1-switch-potentiometer-spare-part-250k-0061260000-s-1-3921"]http://www.absolutemusic.co.uk/store/guita...260000-s-1-3921[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subthumper Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Hi I did this on my Tokai jazz fretless using a push pull pots (I think Hotroxuk sell them). Its quite a subtle change of tone so dont expect to be blown away but its definately different. I also put in a phase switch too which gives you a massive range of sounds, in fact six different possibilties. Dont forget to turn up both pickups when using the series mode, although you can get a certain amount of tonal change by varying the volume controls. A few of the sounds are quite thin and I always regarded them as better suited to recording. Anyway its worth doing but take care with your soldering and wiring. Good Luck Cheers Just Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignsOfDelirium_bassist Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) Huh, I was under the impression that when you switched it into series mode it just made the pulled knob (Ooh eer ) into a sort of master volume? Making the second volume do nothing...Is there a way to wire a phase switch in there as well? Any chance of a diagram/source for the switch? I've been tempted to try out the whole phasing thing for a while Guess it means i'll have to either buy a plate that's got the S1 switch hole in, or make a new hole myself...I'll probably buy a new plate, somehow mines gotten a bit dented! Thanks Ikay an Jimbob! I shall get round to ordering everything as soon as I know what I need for this phasing thing Oh, also, do I want split or solid shaft for the standard jazz knobs? Or do they make the knobs for both kinds? What value cap do I want? I thought all the orange drop caps would be the same value, looked them up on ebay only to find out there's loads! I'm guessing 0.47uF right? Seems to be the most common one used from what I've seen... Cheers again! Jack. Edited January 15, 2011 by SignsOfDelirium_bassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikay Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 [quote]Oh, also, do I want split or solid shaft for the standard jazz knobs? Or do they make the knobs for both kinds? What value cap do I want? I thought all the orange drop caps would be the same value, looked them up on ebay only to find out there's loads! I'm guessing 0.47uF right? Seems to be the most common one used from what I've seen...[/quote] Solid shaft and 0.47uF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignsOfDelirium_bassist Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Excellent, i thought so, but I wasn't sure Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 [quote name='ikay' post='1090492' date='Jan 15 2011, 03:01 PM']Solid shaft and 0.47uF[/quote] I have jazzes with either split or solid - it depends on the model. Easiest way to be sure is to just pull the plastic knob off and see what's there currently, though if you have to uinscrew it to do that it's highly likely to be solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignsOfDelirium_bassist Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 I'm gunna be buying new knobs anyway, right now I've got the chrome ones that come with the VMJ, I want the more authentic looking black ones Only just dawned on me that they'll probably say on the sale if they're split or solid So the only question remains is...Anyone know where I can get an out of phase switch (Is it just another 2-way switch? But wired in a certain way?)? And of course, a diagram telling me what the hell to do with it would be pretty handy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subthumper Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 [quote name='SignsOfDelirium_bassist' post='1091014' date='Jan 16 2011, 12:29 AM']I'm gunna be buying new knobs anyway, right now I've got the chrome ones that come with the VMJ, I want the more authentic looking black ones Only just dawned on me that they'll probably say on the sale if they're split or solid So the only question remains is...Anyone know where I can get an out of phase switch (Is it just another 2-way switch? But wired in a certain way?)? And of course, a diagram telling me what the hell to do with it would be pretty handy [/quote] The phase switch can be another DPDT push pull the same as the one for the series parrallel so you wont need to drill any holes in the control plate. You only need to reverse the phase of one pickup. I'll have a look for any links to circuit diagrams. Cheers Just Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subthumper Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 [quote name='SignsOfDelirium_bassist' post='1091014' date='Jan 16 2011, 12:29 AM']I'm gunna be buying new knobs anyway, right now I've got the chrome ones that come with the VMJ, I want the more authentic looking black ones Only just dawned on me that they'll probably say on the sale if they're split or solid So the only question remains is...Anyone know where I can get an out of phase switch (Is it just another 2-way switch? But wired in a certain way?)? And of course, a diagram telling me what the hell to do with it would be pretty handy [/quote] The phase switch can be another DPDT push pull the same as the one for the series parrallel so you wont need to drill any holes in the control plate. You only need to reverse the phase of one pickup. This shows you how to wire it. [url="http://www.proguitar.de/Support/PickUpSchaltungen/PickUpPhaseSwitching/PickUpPhaseSwitching.html"]http://www.proguitar.de/Support/PickUpScha...eSwitching.html[/url] You'll have to work out which way you want the switch to opperate. Good luck Cheers Just Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignsOfDelirium_bassist Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Wow, couldn't have asked for something better, thanks a lot! I'm eagerly awaiting the first time I pick up my bass once I've done these mods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignsOfDelirium_bassist Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Found these on ebay, will they work? doesn't seem to be much of a description on the sale. Will two of these do the job? Plus of course the .047uF cap and another 250k pot for the tone [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fender-Tone-Volume-Push-Pull-250K-Pot-CTS-Split-Shaft-/140499251084?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item20b6686f8c"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fender-Tone-Volume-P...=item20b6686f8c[/url] Cheers! Jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Yup, if you want a split shaft then that part should do fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyf87 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I think you will only need one of those to make a series/parallel pot. So the first volume pot should have the push/pull and when down it's a normal volume and when it's up (pulled) I think it should deactivate the 2nd volume pot and become a master volume for both pick ups when turned. The other two pots you could change to brand new standard 250k pots, but if the pots you already have on the bass are 250k and the cap is 0.047 there's probably no point, unless they are dud. Don't take my word for all this, this is just my understanding of this type of wiring, I'm sure there will be an expert along soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SignsOfDelirium_bassist Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Yea the first pot would be series/parallel, but the second is gunna be the phase switching. Kinda worried that perhaps if I set this all up, I won't be able to have series + out of phase? if making it series cuts out the second vol pot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subthumper Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote name='SignsOfDelirium_bassist' post='1095056' date='Jan 19 2011, 12:52 PM']Yea the first pot would be series/parallel, but the second is gunna be the phase switching. Kinda worried that perhaps if I set this all up, I won't be able to have series + out of phase? if making it series cuts out the second vol pot...[/quote] Hi again, the phase reverse makes no difference to the series parallel. So you should get, 1. neck 2. bridge. 3. neck and bridge parallel in phase. 4. neck and bridge in parrallel out of phase. 5. series in phase 6. series out of phase. Mine has 2 vol controls so as I said before dont forget to turn both volumes up when using series switching. You'd need a triple pole double throw switch in order to revert to one vol control when using series and I dont know if any one does one on a vol pot as a push pull but I could be wrong. Cheers Just Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote name='Subthumper' post='1095157' date='Jan 19 2011, 02:03 PM']Hi again, the phase reverse makes no difference to the series parallel. So you should get, 1. neck 2. bridge. 3. neck and bridge parallel in phase. 4. neck and bridge in parrallel out of phase. 5. series in phase 6. series out of phase. Mine has 2 vol controls so as I said before dont forget to turn both volumes up when using series switching.[/quote] Why is it so important to have both volumes up when you're in series? [quote name='Subthumper' post='1095157' date='Jan 19 2011, 02:03 PM']You'd need a triple pole double throw switch in order to revert to one vol control when using series and I dont know if any one does one on a vol pot as a push pull but I could be wrong. Cheers Just[/quote] There are some wiring diagrams on the web that do this with a DPDT switch, such as this one: [url="http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=jass_bass_sp"]http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wirin...ic=jass_bass_sp[/url] Personally, I don't trust that diagram (despite it coming from SD - everyone is fallible, and the way those volume controls are wired just looks wrong to me), but it shows that it can be done. (And you can easily put the in-phase/out-of-phase switch in by intercepting the two wires coming from one of the pickups). Obviously this circuit is designed to ensure that both volumes are on full when you're in series mode, but I don't understand why this is so important - hence my first question! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry norton Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote name='mart' post='1095356' date='Jan 19 2011, 05:50 PM']Why is it so important to have both volumes up when you're in series?[/quote] Because having the pickups wired in series is basically running the output of one pickup through the other one, whereas parallel runs them both individually. If you turn down one pickup in paralell you're still listening to the other one but if you turn down one of the pickups in series - you can end up with no sound at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote name='henry norton' post='1095555' date='Jan 19 2011, 07:55 PM']Because having the pickups wired in series is basically running the output of one pickup through the other one, whereas parallel runs them both individually. If you turn down one pickup in paralell you're still listening to the other one but if you turn down one of the pickups in series - you can end up with no sound at all![/quote] On my Jazz I've got a series/parallel push/pull switch wired into the neck volume control,and when in series it becomes the only volume control-the bridge pickup has no effect at all,so you don't need to run both volume controls wide open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='henry norton' post='1095555' date='Jan 19 2011, 07:55 PM']Because having the pickups wired in series is basically running the output of one pickup through the other one, whereas parallel runs them both individually. If you turn down one pickup in paralell you're still listening to the other one but if you turn down one of the pickups in series - you can end up with no sound at all![/quote] Sorry, but that makes no sense to me at all. Can anyone explain this in terms that my dull brain can understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willyf87 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 In a nut shell in series mode the neck volume control becomes master volume, you turn that down it will turn both pickups down, it doesn't matter what you do with the bridge control nothing will happen... in parallel mode the two volumes turn back on and it acts like a standard passive bass with no mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='willyf87' post='1096130' date='Jan 20 2011, 10:49 AM']In a nut shell in series mode the neck volume control becomes master volume, you turn that down it will turn both pickups down, it doesn't matter what you do with the bridge control nothing will happen... in parallel mode the two volumes turn back on and it acts like a standard passive bass with no mods.[/quote] Surely that depends on the circuitry. The Seymour Duncan circuit I posted above works in the way you describe. But you could wire things up differently, and put the series/parallel switch after the two volume controls, in which case they'd still work as individual volume controls just as before. I think this is what Subthumper has done (see his posts above). That seems better to me - it seems to give more flexibility. But Subthumper says "Dont forget to turn up both pickups when using the series mode" - I'm trying to understand why you need both pickups on full! What would be wrong with running, say, the bridge pickup running at half volume in series with the neck pickup running at full volume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikay Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote]I'm trying to understand why you need both pickups on full! What would be wrong with running, say, the bridge pickup running at half volume in series with the neck pickup running at full volume?[/quote] Look at it this way - imagine you have one single coil pickup with a volume control (A) wired on the 'cold' side and another volume control (B ) wired on the 'hot' side. Turn both controls up full and you get max volume. Turning down either vol A or vol B will reduce the volume - ie. they both do [u]exactly the same thing[/u] so one is effectively redundant. Now imagine the same setup with one twin coil/humbucking pickup replacing the single coil pickup. Exactly the same is true. Both vols do exactly the same thing and one is redundant. Wiring two jazz pickups in series is the same as having one twin coil/humbucking pickup. The only difference being that it's a very wide aperture humbucker (the two coils are some distance apart). Edited January 20, 2011 by ikay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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