Lemming16 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) Hi everyone. I bought the Acoustic 220 few months ago, and yesterday i bought the Ampeg BSE410H. The Acoustic 220 is rated: 160 Watts RMS at 2 OHMS 125 Watts RMS at 4 OHMS This info is according to the original Ad. [url="http://acoustic.homeunix.net/twiki/b...ic/BassHead220"]http://acoustic.homeunix.net/twiki/b...ic/BassHead220[/url] And my cab is an Ampeg BSE410H. ( [url="http://www.ampeg.com/pdf/BSE410H_HS_HLF.pdf"]http://www.ampeg.com/pdf/BSE410H_HS_HLF.pdf[/url] ) It is rated at 200 Watts RMS at 8 Ohms. My question is... do these 2 get along? i really dont know much about this things, but i guess not, since my Acoustic 220 would give me like 80 watts...since the cab is at 8 ohms... Does this mean i should get another head? Im taking a look at the GK MB200...the ultra portable new GK heads. Btw, the Acoustic 220 head is VERY old, and the last time it had maintenance eas like 20 years ago. What do you guys suggest? I forgot to mention, the Acoustic 220 has 2 speaker outs, and the cab has 2 inputs (Full range inputs it says). I am only using a guitar cable from 1 Speaker output to 1 input on the cab. Is this correct? or should i be using 2 cables coming out of the head to the 2 inputs on the cab. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- EDIT: 24/01/11 Hi, well, after playing it more time, i realized something. When i play at relatively low volume (in my room), the amp sounds great, very clear, just how i like. BUT, when i play live in a small venue (With a loud drummer and 2 guitar players with 100W Marshall MG), i have to increase the volume to 9, so i can be heard. Increasing the volume 9/10 makes my sound go like "Bzzzzzzzz, Bzzzzzzz" when the tones is at 0 (when my bass tone is at 10, it doesn't sound that bad, but its tooo bright, and most of the songs i play have a very clean and classic bass sound). Let's say i need the classic clean bass sound like "Boom boooom", but its sound is like "Bzzzzz Bzzzzz" at gig volume. I think it is because of what i mentioned, the cab being 200W at 8 ohm and my amp being 120 at 4 ohms, which would make it like 80 or 70 watts. Also, when i add an overdrive it sounds horrible, like a horrible fuzz (when it shouldnt sound like that, since i use the same effect and settings on my tiny Yorkville combo and it sounds beautiful). So, i'm thinking 'bout selling my cab (Ampeg BSE410H and the Acoustic 220) and getting a Fender Rumble 350 with 2 10" (and obviously 350 Watts RMS) What do you think? I'm just looking for a good clean and overdrive tone at a small venue volume. I don't know if the Fender Rumble 350 would deliver, or even any other 200W RMS combo. Or i could also just sell the head and get a head with 150W at 8 ohms, like the new GK MB-200 or something else. I started to think it was because of the cab, but i'm not sure. Thanks in advance. Edited January 24, 2011 by Lemming16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 The Acoustic 220 head is a great amp and will work down to 2 ohms. You will only get around 100w at 8 ohms though, but these amps are pretty loud for their wattages. They are also very reliable, I've used mine for 30 years and its never let me down! You should only use one lead from amp output 1 into one of the speaker inputs. You could add another cab and this could be connected to either amp output 2 or the first cab (daisychaining) You should use a decent speaker lead though, not a guitar lead. The third socket on the back panel is for a footswitch to turn the graphic eq on or off, they're not labeled on mine, so make sure you don't connect the cab to this by mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I agree with 4 str thing. I recently sold my 220 which was originally designed to go with the 406 2x15 4 ohm cab and its loud. Acoustic used to make great amps, very reliable, and still very useable today. As I have found to my cost, the difference in volume if you change from an 8 ohm to a 4 ohm speaker, allowing your amp to develop the extra power is negligable. I think you will find unless your band are pretty loud, the acoustic will probably keep up. Definitly only use 1 cable and you should not use a guitar cable to connect the cab to the amp, you should use a proper speaker lead to handle the power. Lots of info here [url="http://unofficialacousticcontrolcorpmessageboard.yuku.com/"]http://unofficialacousticcontrolcorpmessageboard.yuku.com/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subthumper Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='Lemming16' date='Jan 14 2011, 05:11 PM' post='1089550'] Hi everyone. I bought the Acoustic 220 few months ago, and yesterday i bought the Ampeg BSE410H. The Acoustic 220 is rated: 160 Watts RMS at 2 OHMS 125 Watts RMS at 4 OHMS This info is according to the original Ad. [url="http://acoustic.homeunix.net/twiki/b...ic/BassHead220"]http://acoustic.homeunix.net/twiki/b...ic/BassHead220[/url] And my cab is an Ampeg BSE410H. ( [url="http://www.ampeg.com/pdf/BSE410H_HS_HLF.pdf"]http://www.ampeg.com/pdf/BSE410H_HS_HLF.pdf[/url] ) It is rated at 200 Watts RMS at 8 Ohms. My question is... do these 2 get along? i really dont know much about this things, but i guess not, since my Acoustic 220 would give me like 80 watts...since the cab is at 8 ohms... Does this mean i should get another head? Im taking a look at the GK MB200...the ultra portable new GK heads. Hi, if the cab has four 8ohm speakers you could have it rewired to 2ohms by putting them all in parallel. Or get a tech to put in a series parallel switch so you could still use the cab with other amps. If the amp has'nt been serviced for a long time I'd recomend doing so, so that any preventative maintenence can be done and see what the ravages of time have done to it. You'd be surprised how good some of these old amps can sound after a bit of tlc. Cheers Just Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemming16 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Hi, thanks everyone for the answers, they've been very helpful. Before anything, i am gonna get a decent speaker cable and see what happens, i'm also going to investigate if i can change my cab to 2 ohms. I tell ya later what happened!. Btw, is it ok if i use a guitar cable for connecting the bass to the amp? or should i also use a speaker cable, like the one from the amp to the cab. Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 [quote name='Subthumper' post='1090024' date='Jan 14 2011, 11:55 PM']Hi, if the cab has four 8ohm speakers you could have it rewired to 2ohms by putting them all in parallel.[/quote] Probably not. I'm guessing that for a 4x10 200W 8Ω cab they are probably wiring two 100W 8Ω speakers in series and then paralleling those with the other two speakers (also in series). If you have two 100W speakers in series you can put 200W through them - If you take the same two speakers and wire them in parallel you can only put 100W through them. Put the whole lot in parallel and you will only be able to handle 100W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 [quote name='Lemming16' post='1090074' date='Jan 15 2011, 01:12 AM']Btw, is it ok if i use a guitar cable for connecting the bass to the amp? or should i also use a speaker cable, like the one from the amp to the cab. Thx[/quote] Yes thats what you should use, it is a screened cable which is designed to give you an interference free signal into the amplifier. The speaker on the other hand is receiving a very much higher current signal and need to be heavier gauge wires and doesnt need to be screened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 [quote name='icastle' post='1090087' date='Jan 15 2011, 01:58 AM']Probably not. I'm guessing that for a 4x10 200W 8Ω cab they are probably wiring two 100W 8Ω speakers in series and then paralleling those with the other two speakers (also in series). If you have two 100W speakers in series you can put 200W through them - If you take the same two speakers and wire them in parallel you can only put 100W through them. Put the whole lot in parallel and you will only be able to handle 100W.[/quote] Is this right? Surely adding speakers increases power handling however they are wired? After all, if you add a second cab (wired in parallel to the first cab) you will handle more power, won't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 [quote name='4-string-thing' post='1090581' date='Jan 15 2011, 04:13 PM']Surely adding speakers increases power handling however they are wired? After all, if you add a second cab (wired in parallel to the first cab) you will handle more power, won't you?[/quote] Nope. Each speaker will still have the same wattage if wired in parallel - in series you just add up all the wattages and that's what your power handling is. Best example I can think of off the top of my head is the old fashion xmas tree lights - loads of little 6V bulbs wired in series and able to run off of 240V. If you wired each bulb in parallel (like your house lights are) each 6V bulb gets 240V... but not for very long... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 [quote name='icastle' post='1090087' date='Jan 15 2011, 01:58 AM']Probably not. If you have two 100W speakers in series you can put 200W through them - If you take the same two speakers and wire them in parallel you can only put 100W through them. Put the whole lot in parallel and you will only be able to handle 100W.[/quote] Are you saying If you wire say 4 100 watt 16 ohm speakers together in parallel, giving a theoretical combined impedance of 4 ohm the 4 speakers will only be able to safely handle 100 watt total, [25 watt per speaker] if so that is incorrect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 [quote name='icastle' post='1090622' date='Jan 15 2011, 04:49 PM']Nope. Each speaker will still have the same wattage if wired in parallel - in series you just add up all the wattages and that's what your power handling is. Best example I can think of off the top of my head is the old fashion xmas tree lights - loads of little 6V bulbs wired in series and able to run off of 240V. If you wired each bulb in parallel (like your house lights are) each 6V bulb gets 240V... but not for very long... [/quote] Ok, I have 2 Acoustic cabs that both use identical drivers. Cab A is a 1x15 rated at 125w, cab B is a 2x15 rated at 250w. I've just replaced the drivers in the 2x15 to increase the power handling, the original drivers in the cab were wired in parallel, so its power rating was incorrect? I've put in 2 Eminence drivers rated at 350w and wired them in parallel too, so its power rating is still only 350w? This still seems odd to me, as I said before adding more cabs surely increases power handling, so why not adding more drivers to a single cab? Maybe I'm just being a bit dim here..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 [quote name='4-string-thing' post='1090647' date='Jan 15 2011, 05:16 PM']Maybe I'm just being a bit dim here.....[/quote] I dont think you are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Ok, I'm not wanting to start any arguments or anything (apologies to the OP for hijacking his thread) But after a quick google for speaker power handling and wiring etc, it seems that the general opinion is that adding each speakers rating together gives the total power handling however they are wired. Some people seem to say that wiring 2 100w speakers in series only gives you the power handling of 100w, as the signal travels through the first speaker and then the second. Whereas, in parallel, the signal is split between the 2, so each speaker receives half the signal. Therefore when wired in parallel, my 2 350w speakers can handle an amp of up to 700w. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemming16 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 [quote name='4-string-thing' post='1090881' date='Jan 15 2011, 03:18 PM']Ok, I'm not wanting to start any arguments or anything (apologies to the OP for hijacking his thread) But after a quick google for speaker power handling and wiring etc, it seems that the general opinion is that adding each speakers rating together gives the total power handling however they are wired. Some people seem to say that wiring 2 100w speakers in series only gives you the power handling of 100w, as the signal travels through the first speaker and then the second. Whereas, in parallel, the signal is split between the 2, so each speaker receives half the signal. Therefore when wired in parallel, my 2 350w speakers can handle an amp of up to 700w.[/quote] No need to apology, i've been learning a lot through this discussion, thanks all posters for taking your time helping . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 [quote name='4-string-thing' post='1090881' date='Jan 15 2011, 09:18 PM']Ok, I'm not wanting to start any arguments or anything (apologies to the OP for hijacking his thread) But after a quick google for speaker power handling and wiring etc, it seems that the general opinion is that adding each speakers rating together gives the total power handling however they are wired. Some people seem to say that wiring 2 100w speakers in series only gives you the power handling of 100w, as the signal travels through the first speaker and then the second. Whereas, in parallel, the signal is split between the 2, so each speaker receives half the signal. Therefore when wired in parallel, my 2 350w speakers can handle an amp of up to 700w.[/quote] I probably got it wrong then. Sorry 'bout that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Going back to the OP the best thing you can do is to connect it up with the proper cables and actually try it. All this theoretical stuff is all very well but does it do what you want or not. One thing to remember about acoustic amps is that the volume control is not consistant all the way round. By that I mean that the amp will be running flat out long before the volume knob reaches no 10. When I used to use mine with a hefty bass boost, I was often on volume no 2 or 3 and the amp was not far off flat out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 [quote name='bumnote' post='1091323' date='Jan 16 2011, 01:14 PM']Going back to the OP the best thing you can do is to connect it up with the proper cables and actually try it. All this theoretical stuff is all very well but does it do what you want or not. One thing to remember about acoustic amps is that the volume control is not consistant all the way round. By that I mean that the amp will be running flat out long before the volume knob reaches no 10. When I used to use mine with a hefty bass boost, I was often on volume no 2 or 3 and the amp was not far off flat out.[/quote] Agreed, I never used to have mine above 2 or 3.... its only recently that I've retired the poor old girl, due to the geetards in my band refusing to play at anything less than ear-bleeding volume! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 [quote name='4-string-thing' post='1091354' date='Jan 16 2011, 01:49 PM']Agreed, I never used to have mine above 2 or 3.... its only recently that I've retired the poor old girl, due to the geetards in my band refusing to play at anything less than ear-bleeding volume![/quote] Try and get a 370 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemming16 Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Thanks everyone for your answers, i added new info on the top of the post. And btw, now im also using a speaker cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lemming16' post='1089550' date='Jan 14 2011, 05:11 PM']---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- EDIT: 24/01/11 Hi, well, after playing it more time, i realized something. When i play at relatively low volume (in my room), the amp sounds great, very clear, just how i like. BUT, when i play live in a small venue (With a loud drummer and 2 guitar players with 100W Marshall MG), i have to increase the volume to 9, so i can be heard. Increasing the volume 9/10 makes my sound go like "Bzzzzzzzz, Bzzzzzzz" when the tones is at 0 (when my bass tone is at 10, it doesn't sound that bad, but its tooo bright, and most of the songs i play have a very clean and classic bass sound). Let's say i need the classic clean bass sound like "Boom boooom", but its sound is like "Bzzzzz Bzzzzz" at gig volume. I think it is because of what i mentioned, the cab being 200W at 8 ohm and my amp being 120 at 4 ohms, which would make it like 80 or 70 watts. Also, when i add an overdrive it sounds horrible, like a horrible fuzz (when it shouldnt sound like that, since i use the same effect and settings on my tiny Yorkville combo and it sounds beautiful). So, i'm thinking 'bout selling my cab (Ampeg BSE410H and the Acoustic 220) and getting a Fender Rumble 350 with 2 10" (and obviously 350 Watts RMS) What do you think? I'm just looking for a good clean and overdrive tone at a small venue volume. I don't know if the Fender Rumble 350 would deliver, or even any other 200W RMS combo. Or i could also just sell the head and get a head with 150W at 8 ohms, like the new GK MB-200 or something else. I started to think it was because of the cab, but i'm not sure. Thanks in advance.[/quote] Thats difficult it really depends on how loud you play, and if everything is working properly, although Im surprised the 220 wont keep up. 150 watt or even 200 over the 220 wont make a significant difference if the 220 is working properly. I would see if you can borrow an amp in the power range you are talking about and try and see if that does what you need The trouble is what is loud for me might not be loud for you Edited January 24, 2011 by bumnote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemming16 Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 It is loud enough, But it distorts and the sound comes like "Bzzzzzzzzzz" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Lemming16' post='1101109' date='Jan 24 2011, 05:46 PM']It is loud enough, But it distorts and the sound comes like "Bzzzzzzzzzz"[/quote] As per one of my previous posts if you have it on 9 you are probably overloading the preamp. Is there anyone that can lend you and amp, or is there anyone you can lend the amp to to compare with either another speaker or amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Where abouts are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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