LukeFRC Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 i met a guitarist who had a plectrum once, so i know what one is.... and i have a P bass.... but im not lending it to no guitarist. :S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Ricky or P is always with a pick for me until the Ricky does my head in hence none in the collection but never on my jazz unless I get caught out with a request that's a pick song at the end of the gig and can't be bothered to swap basses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMX Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Precisions provide a real support role - sitting right under the mix. Jazz cuts through a little more, with more distinct highs and less dominance under the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='LawrenceH' post='1093221' date='Jan 17 2011, 10:24 PM']But your test wouldn't address this issue because a P and a J are made of the same woods so of course it's going to sound really similar! [b]And the pickups aren't really all that different either...[/b][/quote] Errr, no they are really really different pups and electronics, and in completely different places on the instrument! They 'hear' a different signal with different ratios of harmonics as a result. That means they impart that timbre on the output of the instrumetn regardless of the construction of the instrument. Also when you combine the two J pups they cancel out some midrange, how much is dependant on how far apart the pups are. A P pup cant do that at all... Not to mention the circuit is different, that blend control changes things more than just by allowing you to blend, believe it or not, it imparts its own character (however small) on the output just by being there. I know people who have gone as far as removing the tone control entirely from a P because doing so makes it sound way better to them (and a lot hotter too apparently). The test I suggested was entirely supposed to NOT allow different woods to get in the way of the point I was making, the electronics can make either instrument sound like the other on their own. Ergo any two instrumetns with the same wood will be more affected by the specific pup/electronic combination than anything else (ie the relatively tiny differences in body shape, neck dimensions that you get between a J and a P). The point I was making is that although those things do make a difference the difference the pups/electronics make is far far greater... The wood makes a difference, but it is going to be marginal compared to the pups/electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) The title of the thread is about the "sound" and we are all making contributions about why the sound is different but struggling to put into words what the sound is, for obvious reasons Strangely, the only thing any of us can do and no one else can do for us, is listen to a J or P and hear it for ourselves If the OP is simply asking what does a J or P sound like compared to each other , see the above Having said that, the reasons why debate is interesting Its also funny how there is always some subtle suggestions in these topics that Ps are played by a picking 3 chord punk types and a J is played by a real muso does anyone really believe that to be true ? Edited January 18, 2011 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='lojo' post='1094252' date='Jan 18 2011, 07:19 PM']Its also funny how there is always some subtle suggestions in these topics that a Ps are played by a picking 3 chord punk types and a J is played by a real muso does anyone really believe that to be true ?[/quote] I hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='lojo' post='1094252' date='Jan 18 2011, 07:19 PM']Its also funny how there is always some subtle suggestions in these topics that Ps are played by a picking 3 chord punk types[/quote] You rang? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Any bass can be used for any style of music but trends of the time certain types of music were prominent will always means styles of instruments are linked to certain styles of music. Most of us have owned basses because of our favourite band at some point the two things are linked whether you like it or not. I don't play punk style stuff on a p with a pick because I think there is a rule to say so it's because it sounds good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 This may have been covered before, but whilst on the subject of P or J sound, when both basses where released, surely the the original thudding P bass was closer to the sound of a jazz bass instrument than the Jazz bass was ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote name='lojo' post='1094292' date='Jan 18 2011, 07:45 PM']....surely the the original thudding P bass was closer to the sound of a jazz bass instrument than the Jazz bass was....[/quote] The reference for bass in US popular music in 1949 was a string bass. Most players were going to move from string bass to bass guitar and they had to slot right back into the same band so it couldn't be too far away from that sound. As it was very few players switched in the first 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote name='lojo' post='1094292' date='Jan 18 2011, 07:45 PM']This may have been covered before, but whilst on the subject of P or J sound, when both basses where released, surely the the original thudding P bass was closer to the sound of a jazz bass instrument than the Jazz bass was ?[/quote] Well there was a post that linked to a rebuild from the bottom up of a 60's J bass by a complete lune of a luthier recently. It went into a level of detail I've never seen before (rolling your own oil filled caps!), at the end of which he put on the original felt string dampers and played it and it sounded incredibly like a double bass, far more than a P does (to my ears). [url="http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/169606-1960-jazzbass-build.html"]Here you go[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) [quote name='51m0n' post='1095189' date='Jan 19 2011, 02:24 PM']Well there was a post that linked to a rebuild from the bottom up of a 60's J bass by a complete lune of a luthier recently. It went into a level of detail I've never seen before (rolling your own oil filled caps!), at the end of which he put on the original felt string dampers and played it and it sounded incredibly like a double bass, far more than a P does (to my ears). [url="http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/169606-1960-jazzbass-build.html"]Here you go[/url] [/quote] Here's a link to the build: [url="http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/169606-1960-jazzbass-build.html"]http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot...bass-build.html[/url] Interesting stuff! Edit: to make the links work again Edited March 15, 2012 by Fat Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looper Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Just to throw in my inexperienced ha'penny's worth. I'm trying to decide between a p and a j for my next bass so I've been listening to some of my favorite bassist recordings. First, john paul jones on lemon song, he's playing a jazz and it sounds like what you'd expect from a jazz. Then billy cox on band of gypsies, low booming muddy sound, but he's also playing a jazz (as far as I can see). Lastly larry taylor on tracks like time was, sounds like a jazz put he mostly played a precision. Seems to me the sound you get to hear is a combination of the bass, the amp, the recording set up and possibly the most important is actually the technique and style of the player. Go on, shoot me down in flames.......I'm already bailing out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Unless someone who was there can tell you, trying to guess what bass was used on a record by its sound is pretty much a waste of time. The EQ on studio desks was so powerful they could make any bass sound like any other and then factor in any mods and you have an impossible task. In the "old days" the producer could bring in a bass that he'd want you to use on the session, happed to me when they turned up with a pre CBS Precision. So "[i]what they usually played[/i]" can miss by a mile. Edited March 15, 2012 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='Looper' timestamp='1331806291' post='1579046'] Seems to me the sound you get to hear is a combination of the bass, the amp, the recording set up and possibly the most important is actually the technique and style of the player. Go on, shoot me down in flames.......I'm already bailing out! [/quote] I've always thought the same. We can here a difference when we play them but in a mix its sometimes impossible to tell, which to me means it doesn't really matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1295271516' post='1092466'] Remarkable consensus so far: [b]Precision[/b] [list] [*]slightly clankier and less focussed sound but with a bit more bottom end [*]big traditional boots [*]a full rich tone with great presence [*]a 'fruity' richness [*]rough, dirty, solid [*]very 'direct' and 'mellow' [*]thick, heavy on the fundamental [*]Precisions explode [*]that (Precision) wallop. [*]Guinness - rich and full bodied [*]Precisions go thumpity thump [*]P's kinda go VVVvvvvvv [*]A P goes 'Womp!" [/list] [b]Jazz[/b] [list] [*]slightly more refined particularly in the mids [*]big traditional shoes [*]far more middy [*]an edgy rasp [*]Neck pup jazz = smooth, clean, hollow [*]the J has the ability to 'spread' it's tone. [*]Jazz's sparkle [*]lager & lime - cuts through nicely [*]Jazzes go plinky-plunk [*]J's kinda go Dnggggggg [*]A Jazz goes 'Wooomp" [/list] [/quote] Jesus Christ. We'll need a pivot table for all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 P bass ~ 75% fundamental 25% harmonic? J bass ~ 50% fandamental 50% harmonic? Two pickups may also introduce phase phenomena. Perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Where does a PJ sit in all this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1331807240' post='1579081'] I've always thought the same. We can here a difference when we play them but in a mix its sometimes impossible to tell, which to me means it doesn't really matter. [/quote] IMO it matters live, I think a P cuts through the mix better, probably because as someone mentioned earlier the P is more middy (is that a word or have I just invented it?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Sonically... you can get close-ish to a P with the J neck pickup...but it isn't the same. It can't replicate it, IMO. The P bass can't get anywhere near a J bass sound as the range is somewhat clipped in the high end. You need to hear and know what they typically sound like and then you'll forever have that reference and you really need passive to get the difference without a pre amp colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1295047214' post='1089985'] Precision... a man walking walking to the beat with big traditional boots on... Jazz... a man walking to the beat with big traditional shoes on... same punch.. different weight... [/quote] That is just brilliant. Sums it up for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='Knork' timestamp='1295089755' post='1090253'] must have this bottle bass! i'd say a P sounds like a male and a J like a female tiger growling. [/quote] Thats the second best way to describe it This thread is great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1295122154' post='1090821'] My take on these two would be to equate them to drinks: Jazz = lager & lime - cuts through nicely Precision = Guinness - rich and full bodied [/quote] Oh this is great, especially as I drink lots of Guinness and play a Precision. So what you you say a Stingray is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Bitter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Did you know that if you position the pickups on a Jazz in the same position that they are on a Rick then the Jazz sounds very similar to a Rick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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